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Why do Christians believe in heaven if David didnt make it?

Nov 6, 2014
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I honestly want to know what Christians as a whole believe in Acts 2v34:
"34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand".
Now if there was a heaven, which i do not believe in, why of all people did not David make it there? as it says plainly he didnt, so what are the thoughts of Christians?
 

mmksparbud

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None of the saved are in heaven yet--the dead are dead. That verse is a direct contradiction to those who claim we immediately go to heaven or hell when we die. The bible says the dead know not anything. No, David is not in heaven, yet--he's dead.--At the resurrection, when Christ returns and His reward is with Him, he will be resurrected, along with rest of the saved, and then we shall be together with Christ.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Be mindful that most of Christianity does not subscribe to the doctrine known as soul sleep.

Under the law, we are all condemned and would be judged; David lived before the advent of Christ. After Christ's death and resurrection, the condemnation of the law remains, but he salvation of Christ's gospel earned through His sacrifice ensures that the faithful, like the good thief at the crucifixion will be with Jesus Christ, in paradise the very day that we die.
 
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Steeno7

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I honestly want to know what Christians as a whole believe in Acts 2v34:
"34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand".
Now if there was a heaven, which i do not believe in, why of all people did not David make it there? as it says plainly he didnt, so what are the thoughts of Christians?

The point Peter was making is not that David didn't 'make it' to heaven. His point was that the Person David was speaking of was not himself, but Jesus, who had just ascended to into the heavens in fulfillment of David's prophesy.
 
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aiki

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I honestly want to know what Christians as a whole believe in Acts 2v34:
"34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand".
Now if there was a heaven, which i do not believe in, why of all people did not David make it there? as it says plainly he didnt, so what are the thoughts of Christians?
A text taken out of its context becomes a pretext. Here's the context within which the verse you cited stands:

Acts 2:30-36
30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." '

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

This passage records the words of the apostle Peter who was preaching of Christ resurrected and ascended into heaven. Peter sets King David in contrast to Christ because the Jews believed (wrongly) that David was speaking of himself in the quotation from Psalm 110 (in verse 34) when in truth he was speaking prophetically of Christ. Christ's physical body did not see corruption because it was resurrected but King David's body did. David's corpse was buried in the ground but the resurrected Jesus was lifted up into heaven. Peter, then, is not speaking of David's spirit/soul in verse 34 but of his physical body. Later in Acts the apostle Paul states,

Acts 13:22 (NKJV)
22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.'

With such a commendation from God Himself, it is clear that David is, indeed, in heaven with his Maker.


Selah.
 
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hedrick

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This passage is distinguishing between Jesus, who was raised by God in the Resurrection and then exalted to the right hand of God, and everyone else. Even David acknowledge him as Lord. The point isn’t the David is damned, but that he wasn’t resurrected and wasn’t raised to the right hand of God.

"For David did not ascend into the heavens" is distinguishing him from "Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God."

I doubt that the author intended any specific statement about David's state, whether "soul sleep" or some kind of intermediate state with soul but not body.
 
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oi_antz

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It is always interesting to see this happening, all this speculation and different ideas of how past understandings should be understood. It seems to me though that when the word "day" is used by Jesus to the thief on the cross, He is referring to the day that they were beside each other on the cross, which took place about two thousand years ago. There has been approximately 2,000 * 365 days since. So OP is asking whether the thief on the cross has been with Jesus in paradise every day for the last 2,000 years. We immediately enter speculation.

For instance, is there a possibility that the thief has left paradise some time in the last 2,000 years? But what OP asks, is does the person who dies go straight away to be in the place Jesus described in John 14:2?

The human perception of time is all based on a view of beginning and end, and measuring the rate of change. We measure a day according to the rate of change between the coming and going of the sun, and we measure years by the rate of change of coming and going of the seasons. So, if the human who is dead does not have a body, do they then perceive time the same way as a human who does? How is it possible for them to see the sun come and go, if they don't have a body to observe it with?

One thing is clear to be observed: that the human body stays dead for some time. What I am not clear about with regards to these things, is whether the place Jesus speaks of in John 14:2 is the same as the place spoken of in Revelation 21, and whether this happens at the same time as what Jesus described in Matthew 25:31.

OP, perhaps you have the same questions, and since I am not the one who began this thread, the rules in this forum do not allow me to converse with other Christians here. I will just follow the thread to see if you will investigate this train of thought. Maybe another Christian here will see that my questions might have you wanting an answer, and offer it anyway.

Interesting thread, thank you!
 
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Nov 6, 2014
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Alrighty thanks guys, interesting comments, yes i understand i did take it out of context, but the context was not directly relevant per say. I personally am not a believer of an immortal soul, instead i think it means the life of a person, because Ezekiel 18v4 clearly states a soul can die.
But very interesting guys, thank you for your words :)
 
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hedrick

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Alrighty thanks guys, interesting comments, yes i understand i did take it out of context, but the context was not directly relevant per say. I personally am not a believer of an immortal soul, instead i think it means the life of a person, because Ezekiel 18v4 clearly states a soul can die.
But very interesting guys, thank you for your words :)

The core Christian belief, which you'll find in the creeds, is resurrection. While most Christians connect this with an immortal soul, that connection is not logically necessary. The resurrected existence involves something like a body, modeled after Jesus' resurrected body. In theory you could believe in the resurrection without necessarily believing in an immortal soul.

Of course as a non-Christian you're not obligated to believe in Jesus' resurrection. But Christians do.

In the OT, the term "soul" is commonly used for the whole person, not for a separate immortal part. I'd say that is true for the passage you reference.
 
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ViaCrucis

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As Hedrick pointed out, the Christian belief is the resurrection [of the body]. The Apostles' Creed which Roman Catholic and most mainline Protestant churches recite every week in our worship reads, "We believe ... in the resurrection of the body", the original Latin says "carnis resurrectionem", quite literally, "the resurrection of the flesh". This comes from the much older Greek creed known as the Old Roman Symbol, which reads "σαρκὸς ἀνάστασιν" (sarkos anastasin), again "the resurrection of the flesh".

Because the Christian belief has always been that even as Christ has been raised (bodily) from the dead, so do all who hope in Christ have the promise from God in Jesus that we too shall be raised from the dead to eternal life in the world to come.

This is a rather distinct idea from the idea of an "immortal soul" which is, in essence, a Platonic doctrine, that is, it comes to us from Plato. I don't have much use, personally, for the Platonic doctrine of the soul. So I don't find it helpful to talk about "going to heaven" or about souls "beaming up into heaven" etc. I don't think that is how Christianity has historically understood things.

Instead Christianity, as Judaism did before, maintains that between death and resurrection the individual exists in a state of waiting. This "intermediate state" can be said to either be one of comfort with God and the righteous who have gone before, or else it can be described as agonizing. In the common beliefs of Jesus' time, the place of the dead--She'ol, translated as Hades in the Gospels--was divided into two halves, one known as Paradise or "Abraham's Bosom", and the other called Gehenna.

In Christian language those who have died in Christ are with Him, in some capacity, waiting for the resurrection. This has typically been described as "going to heaven", though the Bible itself never really speaks this way, and it's not found in much Christian literature either. But the point is that those who have hope in Jesus, after death, are not in a state of dread or fear, they are not lost, or wandering as ghosts or shades. They are comforted with Christ, present with Him, until the day He comes and they are raised up from the dead bodily to eternal life.

But this intermediate state isn't the central focus, the central focus is on the resurrection of the dead. The Christian hope isn't to live as a disembodied ghost floating around in the sky, but to have real, material, bodily life in God's new creation, as God makes all things new, including this very earth we live upon. All creation is redeemed in Jesus, all creation will be restored.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Emmy

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Dear Anonimouspractioner. I believe Jesus when Jesus promised His followers:
" In my Father`s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14: 2: That is what I believe.
I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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