Why do certain denominations NOT agree with Sola Fide (through faith alone)

"Works...cannot glorify God, although they can, if faith is present, be done to the glory of God."



"...as our heavenly Father has in Christ freely come to our aid, we also ought freely to help our neighbor through our body and its works, and each man should become as it were a Christ to the other that we may be Christs to one another and Christ may be the same in all, that is, that we may be truly Christians." ..Martin Luther from the Freedom of a Christian taken from: 3 Treatises 2nd Revised ed. C. 1970 Fortress Press isbn 0-8006-1639-1.

FireDragon76 said:

That logic is flawed, just take a similar example: "Considering that God knows everything that will happen, praying to God in general doesn't make sense. After all ,most people pray for God seemingly to change his mind[/]".

As has been said before elsewhere, almost all Christians pray for the dead, in one manner or another. It may not be as explicit as some Catholic practices, but it is almost always there.

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I disagree wholeheartedly.

The bible tells us in so many passages to pray. Jesus prayed so many times. If Jesus prayed and he is the Son of God, why would we think our prayers were 'trying to change God's mind'? Jesus said that 'I and my Father are one' so given that then obviously Jesus knew that prayer was of overwhelming value.

God the Father, nor Jesus will EVER CHANGE. We are given that assurance in the Word which is why we have the assurance of the gift of salvation, knowing that Jesus/Father will NOT CHANGE.

Also, can you please explain why you feel that all Christians pray for the dead in one way or another? I don't understand what you mean by that. What do you consider to be 'most' Christians.

Be blessed.

"said before elsewhere" is still wrong - no weight, no substance. (no authority)

"almost all christians" is so very wrong, incredibly wrong! and totally not true!

perhaps almost all you know who call themselves 'christian' whether they are or not. that could be true.

baptists, lutherans, methodists, assembly of god, pentacostal, sda, messianic, etc etc etc do not,
and

(Someone saying (claiming) other Christians do (pray to or for the dead)) seems to be an excuse to keep holding on to the fallacy (that it's okay to pray to or for the dead the way their group teaches). =>
(your 'leaders' may tell you 'almost all Christians do' (pray to or for the dead)one way or another, but it is still not true.
so, if you keep on trusting those who tell you things like that, you are in an indefensible position.

FireDragon76 said:

That logic is flawed >>> After all ,most people pray for God seemingly to change his mind[/]".
As has been said before elsewhere, almost all Christians pray for the dead, in one manner or another. It may not be as explicit as some Catholic practices, but it is almost always there.

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from previous posts>
"There is a parable told by Jesus in which the master pays the same wage to all workers even though some started working late in the day and others at the beginning of the day. Purgatory could solve the justice/fairness of the matter. "

what a dirty diaper!

the master was entirely just and fair in his use of his money, EXACTLY AS JESUS SAID HE WAS. there was absolutely nothing unjust nor unfair about it. >>> see what is written >>>
Matthew 20:2,13-15 New International Version (NIV)


2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
...
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’


-------------------------------------------------------
"The world, for all its splendor, is a dark, wicked place. In the holocaust, the nazis would pry babies from their mothers arms and throw them directly into the fires because they did not wish to waste money on gassing them.
(in the usa, 1000 a day are cut up inside the mothers' body, approved by some method of 'voting' giving authority to those who perpetrate (politicians and so-called 'doctors') -- everyone who 'approves' even just by not standing up against it when they could is GUILTY (according to SCRIPTURE).)

Today, in North Korea, people are executed simply for believing in Jesus. In fact, 80 people were executed in North Korea in 2013 just for HAVING a bible."

Today, in Africa and China, over 3000 believers were put to death(by the world church and governments) for their faith.

so, yes, the world is pernicious, stupid, blind (Jesus said it).

to be Jesus disciple in any church or country, you have to give up(renounce) society's ways and corruption, as well as self.

Parogar said:

As usual, I place all my questions in the Lutheran forums because I don't trust anyone else.
...
I just don't understand people.

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good.

I just don't trust people too.

(I trust Yhwh by faith and grace in Y'shua - He will NEVER let you down).

yeshuaslavejeff said:

<snip>
baptists, lutherans, methodists, assembly of god, pentacostal, sda, messianic, etc etc etc do not,
and
saying they do seems to be an excuse to keep holding on to the fallacy.
(your 'leaders' may tell you 'almost all do' one way or another, but it is still not true. so, if you keep on trusting those who tell you things like that, you are in an indefensible position (but may keep having the favor of man(your leaders)) (or turn completely to God for His Help).

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This is all very difficult to parse. You might try using standard sentence structure and punctuation in order to have your message understood.

Please be aware that this is the Lutheran board and you may not say that Lutherans or Lutheran leaders are holding on to any fallacy or not teaching according to scripture.

Ex-LCMS or not, since you are not Lutheran you are a guest here and are expected not to teach or speak against Lutheran doctrine and practice. Doing so is a reportable infraction of CF rules.

yes, it was awkward post, --- wasn't sure how to 'clarify' in the time I had....

nothing at all against Lutheran's , no --- the point was Christians (including the Lutheran's I know and LCMS I was in 40 years) don't pray to or for the (physically) dead ---

that seems to be a very unbiblical practice(or perhaps unbliblically practiced is a better phrase?) in some places.

No worries. Thank you for pointing it out.
I edited the post and added one or two for clarity.(hopefully)

Tangible said:

This is all very difficult to parse. You might try using standard sentence structure and punctuation in order to have your message understood.......

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Why do certain denominations NOT agree with Sola Fide (through faith alone)?


It's not properly understood when textually written, because Luther's Three Sola have the "Sola" appear three times.

Draw a triangle on a sheet of paper, write "Trinity" inside of it, there's one (Sola) triangle representing one God, our deity proclaimed in the Trinity, so write "Sola" next to "Trinity" within the triangle.

It's by God's Grace through the Father Almighty creating the heaven and earth and mankind, creating the foundation of all that we know, so write "Grace" at the foundation of the triangle.

How do we know this? It's by God's Word apostolically passed down through the saints, scripture, and Christ Jesus the Word made flesh; so write "Word" on the clockwise (left side) of the triangle.

How do we stay in the Word and have a will to partake of the means of Grace? By Faith imputed into us by God's Holy Spirit, so write "Faith" on the right side of the triangle.

Grace = Father Almighty, Word = Christ Jesus, and Faith = Holy Spirit with all three encircling the Trinity = Alone (Sola).

Textually it looks like Grace Alone, Word Alone, Faith Alone; when in fact the Alone only appears once, but connects all three in one substance.

The Luther Rose is traditionally encircled by the Three Alone (Sola).

If you're born and raised Lutheran you get it right-away, but other denominations of Christianity get stuck on seeing "Alone" textually written three times and find it contradictory. Either it's "Alone" or it isn't, and Roman-Catholics especially like to target Protestants in general on the "Sola" because most outside of Lutheranism don't know how to present it and just talk in circles or get stuck on explaining one "Sola" to death, unable to work the other two in.

It actually works as a great three-legged stool concept. Remove any one of the stool legs and the stool collapse. If you remove Grace, Word, or Faith from the salvation equation; then salvation doesn't exist in the manner by which it's being practiced. Notice "works" isn't present, because as Lutherans we accredit works to God who gifted us with the opportunity to fulfill these gifts of service to our LORD, as opposed to earning merit towards levels of sins to be worked off.