Or the 6 year old who gets upset when his mom doesn't set a place at the dinner table for his imaginary friend. I recall quite a few cases of kids saying "mom hates my friend", now that I think about it ...
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Or it could be that they think they are God. Sure seems that way sometimes.
Yes, but see, much the same complaint can be made about creation-science people and the whole Bible Belt way of thinking. Look at all the hateful comments, right on this site, that these guys make about fellow Christians who dare question their fundamentalist ideology. So, really persons on both sides are guilty of intolerance.I'm going to reply to ToddnotTodd and Quatona here...
Perhaps I should specify that it's (many) Athiest I've observed who show signs of hate, not all of them. I do believe people are diverse, but I knew a couple Athiest when I was agnostic and it was much the same thing with them. One of them would get pamphlets that are intended to reach those who may be interested in what God can do for them, but he doesn't get them because he's interested in God, he gets them to laugh at them and talk about how retarded believers are, and has also done some things which were very harsh beyond that.
As far as Atheist having the upper hand, I believe this is true for a number of reasons. The amount of believers are on the decrease according to statistics, and our government is becoming more progressive and liberal, for example since 1993 the Democrats have won 5 of the last 6 presidential elections (by popular vote). I believe things are changing, now I want to make it clear that being a Democrat doesn't make you an Athiest but when you look at the numbers or pay attention to the media it's clear that they have more Atheist and less believers....
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/majority-of-atheists-are-liberal/article/2510230
This has a poll from Pew research which is one of the most reliable sources for polling data. It's pretty obvious to me, just through observations, that Democrats have more Athiest and Agnostics, and they're winning presidential elections and changing laws which go against some of the principals that are important to Christians for example. Again I don't want to group people together I know Democrats who believe in God but the statistics are pretty clear.
The link below shows numbers on both a decrease in those who are religious and a decrease in those who believe in God in the U.S. The ones who believe in God who aren't religious has only slightly dropped, but worldwide it's dropped much more. This has to be obvious to you guys, people don't take matters of faith as seriously as they used to, and for many Religion or God is being portrayed in a bad way. Personally, I don't think it's bad, some people can make it a bad thing but there are a lot of people who are helped by believing, or function better by believing, and contribute to others because of their faith. I know more of those types of believers than obnoxious ones...
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/u-s-public-becoming-less-religious/
So I'll stand by saying that I think non believers have the upper hand, I think many believers of God and Christians feel backed into a corner, I've seen it.
As far as hate goes, I mentioned the person I knew who got the pamphlets to make fun of them, and the youtube comments with the hateful messages. There's a lot more, more than I could list in a forum by a longshot, but I will give you some substantiation.
Here's a word for word example by someone who calls himself Athiest 13...
http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-and-hate-god-5/
If you search youtube for videos about God or religion it's so common that people are saying ugly or hurtful things, they may not come right out and say they're Athiest but if their comments are directed at God id say the chances are high that they don't believe. Take this comment for example....
"One day, we'll look back, see that some people believed that s___, and laugh our a____ off. We'll consider it just as moronic as Greek mythology. If not more."
Look down for Mr. Awesome to see the comment...
Some people will come right out and use the word hate, the ones who don't say it but say a number of ugly or hurtful things
I'd say it gives a pretty good idea, especially if they're doing it regularly. Some people even specialize in mocking believers, Bill Maher is one of the most prolific in this category. He's spent years targeting believers and Christians while making money doing it.
It's a free country, and some of this hate does come from believers but I'd say those types are not following a God based lifestyle, God is not about hate. Long story short, I don't like that some can't live and let live, I never understood those who persistently attack others verbally or any other way. I think most of the focus is on the religious and how bigoted and unaccepting they are, but Athiest are often very judgemental or unaccepting. That's one of the things that turned me away from atheism, they talked a lot about how judgemental and hypocritical believers are but they were doing the same thing.
I noticed I'm getting a lot of feedback here, I hope we can have a civil debate. I'll try to get to more of these responses soon, it's been busy over here. Actually, I'm working on a website for debating various issues, I've done this kind of thing for a good while. (I think I do okay, but that may be a biased opinion)
"All of those winners were Christians, yet their political party somehow trumps that and puts them on the side of atheists...?"
It's hard to back three-quarters of the people in a room into a corner.
I take it you're aware that for the past 1700 odd years, certain theists in the western world have demonised non-belief by murdering apostates, and all manner of other horrible punishments. And that their religion has been forced upon us for all that time. We had no choice in the matter, if we wished to stay alive and/or have any sort of quality of life.
And you're complaining of internet meanness? Seriously?
What you should be doing is thanking us for leaving it at the intellectual challenge level, and not doing as believers have always done to us.
We need to stop forcing math on children too.
And dont get me started on "reading".
So, essentially what you are claiming is that there is a major controversy in science over evolution, right? Well, that'll be the day. No, evolution is one of the best-supported theories in modern science. Since science is not equipped to deal with questions of God, evolution is a neutral theological concept. Issues about God are vital and should be discussed in philosophy and theology classes. It makes me very nervous to think that some expect biology teachers to talk about God when probably none have any real education in theology and other essential areas.Cearbhall
Repeating what someone says but changing the words? I wouldn't say it's as black and white as that, for many things are black and white but that's part of the problem, and it's part of the reason we're so divided. This is why I mentioned "live and let live", that's what we need right now from those with passionate beliefs, not careless "live and let live" where you're okay with everything, but we're so divided right now that many seem to not think about the beliefs of others at all. As far as your comment goes, I'd put it like this, if the Democrats have the majority of the atheist then some of the politicians will try to appeal to their base, it's not always the case but we haven't had a good POTUS in a long time. A bipartisan leader who considers both sides in a genuine way may help ease things down. I hope so but it doesn't look like it for this election cycle.
Cearbhall when you said this....
Physically maybe, but politically, socially, or strategically it's very possible.
Locutus
That's sad and should never happen, death is hard enough without someone else being the one responsible. Take Joseph Stalin for example, he led Russia and exterminated anywhere from 4-10 million people, he was Athiest and often targeted churches. It's been debated that he was worse than Hitler, but that seems to be a matter of opinion.
Durangodawood
Education is important, and sharing information about evolution is fine, but let children know that there is an alternative and let them decide. I believe evolution is real, I'm highly researched on matters of science, with that said it comes with controversy and the opinions of those who don't believe it should be considered, many of them contribute a lot so I think they're important too. Although I'm fine with evolution being taught, (just to add a thought) I wouldn't compare it to reading or math, those are skills that people often need on a daily basis.
_______________________________________________________________
May I ask if those replying here believe? Don't worry, I don't preach, it's out of curiosity because I didn't know this section of the website had so many skeptics, if you don't believe and have a problem with Christianity what brings you here to CF, I'm sure you're very welcome here, I'm just curious on a personal level?
Perhaps I should specify that it's (many) Athiest I've observed who show signs of hate, not all of them. I do believe people are diverse, but I knew a couple Athiest when I was agnostic and it was much the same thing with them. One of them would get pamphlets that are intended to reach those who may be interested in what God can do for them, but he doesn't get them because he's interested in God, he gets them to laugh at them and talk about how retarded believers are, and has also done some things which were very harsh beyond that.
As far as Atheist having the upper hand, I believe this is true for a number of reasons. The amount of believers are on the decrease according to statistics
and our government is becoming more progressive and liberal
I believe things are changing, now I want to make it clear that being a Democrat doesn't make you an Athiest but when you look at the numbers or pay attention to the media it's clear that they have more Atheist and less believers....
So I'll stand by saying that I think non believers have the upper hand, I think many believers of God and Christians feel backed into a corner, I've seen it.
If you search youtube for videos about God or religion it's so common that people are saying ugly or hurtful things, they may not come right out and say they're Athiest but if their comments are directed at God id say the chances are high that they don't believe. Take this comment for example....
"One day, we'll look back, see that some people believed that s___, and laugh our a____ off. We'll consider it just as moronic as Greek mythology. If not more."
Some people will come right out and use the word hate, the ones who don't say it but say a number of ugly or hurtful things
I'd say it gives a pretty good idea, especially if they're doing it regularly. Some people even specialize in mocking believers, Bill Maher is one of the most prolific in this category. He's spent years targeting believers and Christians while making money doing it.
I think most of the focus is on the religious and how bigoted and unaccepting they are, but Athiest are often very judgemental or unaccepting.
That's one of the things that turned me away from atheism
they talked a lot about how judgemental and hypocritical believers are but they were doing the same thing.
I was recently on Youtube leaving a reply to a video which suggested teaching creationism is bad for children. I'm not religious, but I do believe in God. I had said that nothing should be forced on a child, including evolution. I've always found freedom of thought to be important but I was respectful when I left the comment.
I soon got some ugly comments for the message I had left, I also notice this with others as well, a very harsh attitude for those who believe. I see this in the media with celebrities such as Bill Maher too, it seems pretty common.
Atheist say that they can't hate what they don't believe, but I know many of them do. Many people don't believe in God anymore these days so they seem to have the upper hand already, it makes it hard to understand. I've always had a problem understanding those who are not okay with others having beliefs that are different. Any ideas, or thoughts?
I have no doubt that atheists can and do hate, just like everybody else. That doesn´t mean, though, that they "hate God". They may hate the way they are approached, they may hate the implications of the god concepts they are introduced to, they may hate the idea of faith, they may hate the idea of good that believers project on their god concepts, and various other things - but that´s not "hating God".I'm going to reply to ToddnotTodd and Quatona here...
Perhaps I should specify that it's (many) Athiest I've observed who show signs of hate, not all of them. I do believe people are diverse, but I knew a couple Athiest when I was agnostic and it was much the same thing with them. One of them would get pamphlets that are intended to reach those who may be interested in what God can do for them, but he doesn't get them because he's interested in God, he gets them to laugh at them and talk about how retarded believers are, and has also done some things which were very harsh beyond that.
It seems to me that theists are still a vast majority, and atheists are a vast minority. I don´t think that a decrease of theism in general (or Christianity in particular) warrants the conclusion that atheism "has the upper hand".As far as Atheist having the upper hand, I believe this is true for a number of reasons. The amount of believers are on the decrease according to statistics, and our government is becoming more progressive and liberal, for example since 1993 the Democrats have won 5 of the last 6 presidential elections (by popular vote). I believe things are changing, now I want to make it clear that being a Democrat doesn't make you an Athiest but when you look at the numbers or pay attention to the media it's clear that they have more Atheist and less believers....
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/majority-of-atheists-are-liberal/article/2510230
This has a poll from Pew research which is one of the most reliable sources for polling data. It's pretty obvious to me, just through observations, that Democrats have more Athiest and Agnostics, and they're winning presidential elections and changing laws which go against some of the principals that are important to Christians for example. Again I don't want to group people together I know Democrats who believe in God but the statistics are pretty clear.
The link below shows numbers on both a decrease in those who are religious and a decrease in those who believe in God in the U.S. The ones who believe in God who aren't religious has only slightly dropped, but worldwide it's dropped much more. This has to be obvious to you guys, people don't take matters of faith as seriously as they used to, and for many Religion or God is being portrayed in a bad way. Personally, I don't think it's bad, some people can make it a bad thing but there are a lot of people who are helped by believing, or function better by believing, and contribute to others because of their faith. I know more of those types of believers than obnoxious ones...
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/u-s-public-becoming-less-religious/
So I'll stand by saying that I think non believers have the upper hand, I think many believers of God and Christians feel backed into a corner, I've seen it.
As I said in my previous post: Since you know so many atheists who "hate God" - why don´t you ask them?As far as hate goes, I mentioned the person I knew who got the pamphlets to make fun of them, and the youtube comments with the hateful messages. There's a lot more, more than I could list in a forum by a longshot, but I will give you some substantiation.
Here's a word for word example by someone who calls himself Athiest 13...
http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-and-hate-god-5/
If you search youtube for videos about God or religion it's so common that people are saying ugly or hurtful things, they may not come right out and say they're Athiest but if their comments are directed at God id say the chances are high that they don't believe. Take this comment for example....
"One day, we'll look back, see that some people believed that s___, and laugh our a____ off. We'll consider it just as moronic as Greek mythology. If not more."
Look down for Mr. Awesome to see the comment...
Some people will come right out and use the word hate, the ones who don't say it but say a number of ugly or hurtful things
I'd say it gives a pretty good idea, especially if they're doing it regularly. Some people even specialize in mocking believers, Bill Maher is one of the most prolific in this category. He's spent years targeting believers and Christians while making money doing it.
It's a free country, and some of this hate does come from believers but I'd say those types are not following a God based lifestyle, God is not about hate. Long story short, I don't like that some can't live and let live, I never understood those who persistently attack others verbally or any other way. I think most of the focus is on the religious and how bigoted and unaccepting they are, but Athiest are often very judgemental or unaccepting. That's one of the things that turned me away from atheism, they talked a lot about how judgemental and hypocritical believers are but they were doing the same thing.
I noticed I'm getting a lot of feedback here, I hope we can have a civil debate. I'll try to get to more of these responses soon, it's been busy over here. Actually, I'm working on a website for debating various issues, I've done this kind of thing for a good while. (I think I do okay, but that may be a biased opinion)
We all get angry, upset, heart broken, disappointed. We are humans and not perfect in any way no matter what we believe in. The bible is a complicated book to understand, in my opinion. Just like any other book, you either read it to try to understand it, to find out what it is all about either out of curiosity or faith, or you judge the book by its cover, without even trying.
If there's a scientific dispute over the general course and mechanics of evolution, then yes, that should be taught in school.CEducation is important, and sharing information about evolution is fine, but let children know that there is an alternative and let them decide. I believe evolution is real, I'm highly researched on matters of science, with that said it comes with controversy and the opinions of those who don't believe it should be considered, many of them contribute a lot so I think they're important too. Although I'm fine with evolution being taught, (just to add a thought) I wouldn't compare it to reading or math, those are skills that people often need on a daily basis....
I have definitely noticed, for certain individuals, that believing in God is just a way of being able to say that the biggest guy on the playground is on their side, because they know that they don't actually have the intelligence or understanding to defend their opinions when challenged.Or it could be that they think they are God. Sure seems that way sometimes.
Moses, David, Joshua, those men would have killed me outright and killed my daughters too, even the New Testament says I do not deserve to live. Take your head out of the sand and really think about this. It's not ok. That is not how tolerance works.
Education should be forced on children. A well informed populace that is literate and numerate is vital to the health of any society. That's why it is mandated that our children are educated.
Evolution is the linchpin of modern biology. Its the fundamental, unifying concept. Not teaching evolution is when studying biology is akin to not teaching numerals when studying maths. Evolution is, as it should be, taught in science classes, as it relates to biology.
Creationism is not science. It is religion. It's place is in religious education, not science education. Teaching it in science class is bad for children. Teaching it to the exclusion of our current understanding of cosmology, geology and biology is close to child abuse.
There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of different mythical creation stories that have been invented through human history. Most of them, including the Genesis accounts, are non-falsifiable, non-testable, non-repeatable and make no useful predictions. All of them, from the Australian aboriginal Dream Time stories, to the Sumerian creation dialogues through to the Norse mythologies, are then equally credible. That is to say, not at all.
Therefore, they should either be either restricted to religious classes, Sunday school and other religious-supported educational areas.
I have nothing against teaching children creation stories. I've been a teacher at a private Catholic school and I've assisted with teaching them myself.
What I do have a problem with is teaching children that the creation stories literal and that the well supported and well evidenced theories of modern science are the 'work of the devil', deliberate falsehoods or a conspiracy against believers, as if lying to children will somehow render 250 years of painstaking inquiry into the nature of reality invalid.
What do you mean by "forced"? Children are "forced" to learn science, history, mathematics, and a host of other things. Why should evolution be any different?I had said that nothing should be forced on a child, including evolution.
Then you still believed in a God, you just didn't like your God. That's not a lack of belief, that's just rebellion. The very question of "why believe in him when...? " is the key phrase.There was a time in my life when I did not believe in God. I had the "why believe in him when good people suffer-- kids die with out a chance of life", mentality.
To study people like you. To understand what makes a person believe in something for which there is no evidence but then run the rest of their life contrary to their religious ideas.I'm sure there are endless reasons why a person will tell you they don't believe in His existence. One cannot judge for why that happens. My hope is that all of us in Christian Forums are here for one similar reason, which is to explore the possibility of God, His word.
Or why else are you all here then?
Education is important, and sharing information about evolution is fine, but let children know that there is an alternative and let them decide.
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