Why do all believers connected with "tongues".....

TLSITD · May 15, 2020

Behold said:
Its not a trend, its a fact.
Go to any Assembly of God Church in the world....or Church of Christ, Nazarene, ....any Pentecostal related Denomination, and they will tell you that you can "lose your salvation".
So, why are the "tongue talking" crowd so dead set against Eternal Security....is a curious thing..
Why is the Catholic Church the same?
The CC despises the theology of Eternal Security....which is a curious thing.

There are plenty of Christians who believe that who aren't Pentecostals or Roman Catholics. I don't know what the Pentecostals or the Roman Catholics teach about it, but if there is any connection between those two things, it's unique to the denomination or church. There's no Biblical connection between the spiritual gift of speaking in other languages supernaturally and the doctrine of conditional eternal security.

Behold · May 15, 2020

Dave L said:
It was a Spiritual gift along with prophecy and other gifts the 12 Apostles distributed as a proof of their apostleship. It only came through their hands, or in the two outpourings mentioned in Acts.

If i might add to...

The Epistle "Acts'....is actually "The ACTS of the APOSTLES"....its not the acts of the Christian, so, that is why all the chaos about gifts and all the rest...
An Apostle, is...."The SIGNS of an APOSTLE"> 2 Corinthians 12:12
Do you see that?
Now, add this to it....>"with SIGNS following".....
Do you see that?...>How it relates to "Acts of the Apostles".
So, what happens when people are taught that all this is signs of a believer?

You get a madhouse within Christianity.

Behold · May 15, 2020

WanderedHome said:
Miracles have never stopped in the Orthodox Church and still occur today, but they have a vastly different understanding from Pentecostals. Mainly, an understanding rooted in Church history rather than a charismatic experience in the early 1900's.

Miracles are: God's authority and power stepping out of the Supernatural and into the natural realm.
Its God changing a CIRCUMSTANCE from bad to good.
He does it all day long, 24/7

NBB · May 15, 2020

What you can tell about a pentecostal pastor, who told me the exact things that i thought in my heart years before? to help me.
Who can know those things if not God, if that is not the gift of prophecy i don't know what was it.
And if you are a unbeliever enough that says this is psychic stuff, you are without remedy until something wakes you up.

Behold · May 15, 2020

Albion said:
At this point, it doesn't look as though all believers who are connected with "tongues" do believe that you can lose your salvation.

I'd beg to differ.
Lets see if one Man's up and comes to this Thread.
Or we could go to the many Threads here, and do a search for "why i hate OSAS", and i bet its 99% Catholics and Pentecostals...

Albion · May 15, 2020

Behold said:
Their are CC splinter groups that promote the gifts of the spirit, but the RCC does not.

Yes, but if you take that approach, there are charismatics in just about every denomination, including the churches that frown on the beliefs of most charismatics. And as if that isn't cloudy enough, there are "splinter groups" off from each of them.

So if you are going to say that there just must be some charismatic, tongues-speaking, Christians here there and everywhere...but not necessarily associated with particular denominations...you have nothing. Nothing, that is, in the way of an answer to your initial question.

All you have is what you started with--some charismatics feel one way about the possibility of losing one's salvation and you also have other charismatics who feel the opposite way.

Behold · May 15, 2020

NBB said:
I wonder, if you 'speak falsely' in tongues, you are deluded, you are cheating yourself and others that you have something from God that you don't, you basically are a liar, give false testimony, and are contributing in making your church look bad,

NOW, i went to church being an almost unbeliever, and the Holy spirit touched me, i know it was him, because since that day i am convinced that God interacts with people and is close to people, now this church, some people there speaks in tongues... i don't but, YOU CONNECT THE DOTS THERE?, if they were a bunch of self deluded, liars and false people, like someone who thinks he has the gifts of tongues and they don't then, WHY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THERE?, i bet my life it was the Holy spirit, and that was not the only time God touched me, they were several more occasions.

So, think what you want but take in consideration this.

NBB , i would never ever deny the supernatural. And when i teach people to understand the difference between a "prayer language", ("groanings that can't be uttered"), vs, the Gift of Tongues...which is being able to speak in a foreign language, that you've never learned. Acts 2......then i never question if all this is "for today"....as that is not my call.
God does what He does and He's right every single time.

Hazelelponi · May 15, 2020

Albion said:
Yes, but if you take that approach, there are charismatics in just about every denomination, including the churches that frown on the beliefs of most charismatics. And as if that isn't cloudy enough, there are "splinter groups" off from each of them.

So if you are going to say that there just must be some charismatic, tongues-speaking, Christians here there and everywhere...but not necessarily associated with particular denominations...you have nothing. Nothing, that is, in the way of an answer to your initial question.

Please don't group everyone who believes in the Holy Spirit in with charismatics.. it's offensive.

Behold · May 15, 2020

com7fy8 said:
And not all Pentecostals believe you can lose your salvation.

There are always a few that do not follow the herd, but in this case, these denominations do state in their statement of faith that they believe you can lose your salvation.
Pick up a phone...Call any Assembly of God church in the world... or talk to a Pentecostal here on this forum.
Go and find a "i hate OSAS" and if there are Pentecostals and Catholics here, the will be spamming it, they will be jumping on it......stomping it.

Albion · May 15, 2020

Behold said:
There are 9, Paul says to pursue the Best, "tongues" is the least, yet, its the one that all Pentecostals worry about... And as i said, they all believe that you can lose your salvation.

The chances of that being true are miniscule, but there is actually no way of knowing how many are on one side of this issue and how many are on the other side.

Behold · May 15, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
I don't know how to say it without breaking forum rules, so I'll shut up.

I dont teach people to "listen to an inner voice", as maybe thats not God. Or maybe it is..
Its better to let the bible , the NT be the final authority, and spend a great deal of time in it, with Paul.

Albion · May 15, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Please don't group everyone who believes in the Holy Spirit in with charismatics.. it's offensive.

Uh, OK. Why would I do that?

Behold · May 15, 2020

TLSITD said:
There's no Biblical connection between the spiritual gift of speaking in other languages supernaturally and the doctrine of conditional eternal security.

There is also no Catholic Church or Assembly of God Church found in the New Testament.
So, im not sure what you point is, TLSITD, as im not trying to connect tongues with OSAS, im just pointing out that these Groups, over 100 million people, who make up their body, hate the teaching of Eternal Security.

Behold · May 15, 2020

NBB said:
I know there is weird stuff happening under 'charismatic' 'churches'. But there is sincere pentecostals/charismatics too who walk with God, i don't think pentecostals/charismatics agree with the weird stuff happening at all even if the one doing the weird things like to call themselves the same.

Sincere believers are found all over.... and the opposite are found all over.

Hazelelponi · May 15, 2020

Albion said:
Uh, OK. Why would I do that?

You just said "charismatics" are in every denomination... I don't think this...charismatics have their own churches.

Everyone else has their own churches - belief in the Holy Spirit notwithstanding.

Albion · May 15, 2020

Behold said:
There are always a few that do not follow the herd, but in this case, these denominations do state in their statement of faith that they believe you can lose your salvation.
Pick up a phone...Call any Assembly of God church in the world... or talk to a Pentecostal here on this forum.
Go and find a "i hate OSAS" and if there are Pentecostals and Catholics here, the will be spamming it, they will be jumping on it......stomping it.

You continue to name a mere handful of denominations as your proof of something or other and yet they are dwarfed by the total number of denominations that exist.

Behold · May 15, 2020

NBB said:
What you can tell about a pentecostal pastor, who told me the exact things that i thought in my heart years before? to help me.
Who can know those things if not God, if that is not the gift of prophecy i don't know what was it.
And if you are a unbeliever enough that says this is psychic stuff, you are without remedy until something wakes you up.

I never deny the supernatural as related to God.

Behold · May 15, 2020

Albion said:
So if you are going to say that there just must be some charismatic, tongues-speaking, Christians here there and everywhere...but not necessarily associated with particular denominations...you have nothing. Nothing, that is, in the way of an answer to your initial question.

.

IVe not said that. I Threaded that Pentecostals as a group, reject Eternal Security as a whole.
Ive talked to many of their pastors and to so many Pentecostals.
ive talked to them here, and on many Christian fourms.
They all hate Eternal Security.

Albion · May 15, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
You just said "charismatics" are in every denomination... I don't think this...charismatics have their own churches.

Well, that's wrong. There are charismatic organizations in the Catholic church, and in the Lutheran churches, and in most mainline denominations, not to mention the smaller ones. They are not "underground" groups, either, even though the denominations that belong to are not oriented towards their theology.

It's a movement that has affected many if not most denominations, but that doesn't tell us anything about the beliefs of most of them when it comes to the particular issue that was asked about here.

Behold · May 15, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Please don't group everyone who believes in the Holy Spirit in with charismatics.. it's offensive.

Every believer "believes in" the Holy Spirit, but not every believer is taught that unless you speak in tongues you are not really filled with the Spirit, or ... unless you "receive the baptism in the spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues" you are not really saved. So, that is garbage. Reject that.

Why do all believers connected with "tongues".....

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