Why do Adventists come across in the wrong way?

[Windmill]

I've been on this site for about a month now and its come as no surprise that SDA's are even on the net seen as Bible bashing/false-doctrine having/'know-it-all'/legalist/only saved by keeping the Sabbath/'proof-texters' and all the other typical names we are called. Its almost as if whenever an SDA comments on a topic the whole thread rolls their eyes?! One post sticks in my memory when someone replied to an Adventist comment saying something to the effect of: "Why do you continue to proof-text your views? We already know what you and your church teach and myself and almost all other churches disagree with you!"

This is the same when trying to witness to others face-to-face of different faiths, its almost as if Adventists are the burden of the Christian faith? I'm sure I am not the only one that feels like this, and I'm wondering people's thoughts on this. If (as we do) we believe we hold the truth in these last days, why is it so hard to minister it without coming across as 'know it all', legalist Sabbatarians? How do people deal with this and try to disprove this commonly held view of Seventh-Day Adventists?

My guess is that its because we're very "extreme" in our views. Even talking about such things is considered lagalisim, like the sabbath often. Of course we come across in the wrong way- most people consider our beliefs too extreme, and so they get scared by us I mean, the adventist beliefs, especially when it comes to prophecy, are rather complex. Compare that to say, a normal prodestant church, who's ideas are "God loves you, do good to others, bring more members to the church." Type of thinking.

 

[Telaquapacky]

Then why are you here?

If not to stir up trouble, then for what purpose?

Your manner of address to me is highly disrespectful. I normally welcome friendly discussion in here from non-SDAs, but you are beginning to show yourself as one who merely has an agenda to cause trouble, which by the way, is a blatant contradiction to the principle of the passage (1Cor. 1:10-11) that you claim to know so well.

Did you really read the rules of this forum before you started posting in here?

We might not agree with blacksabb's condemnation of membership in a denomination, or take his same bitter attitude, when you read his experience it brings up a point important to the topic of this thread.

Sometimes we and others in our church speak ill of other specific denominations or of the "Sunday-keepers" in general. It is unnecessary and creates a very wrong impression of us.

The late George Vandeman wrote an excellent book, entitled, "What I like about..." Each chapter was a glowing praise of the good things about different denominations, including Pentecostals, Roman Catholics, Baptists, etc. I highly recommend we all read this book, especially if we are going to relate to other believers in the forum

 

[Telaquapacky]

Brother blacksabb, have you ever heard of Harold Camping and his ministry, Family Radio? What he teaches sounds exactly like what you are saying. You might find there a kindred spirit.

 

[OntheDL]

Brother blacksabb, have you ever heard of Harold Camping and his ministry, Family Radio? What he teaches sounds exactly like what you are saying. You might find there a kindred spirit.

Are you in the north east or Family Radio is nation wide? I got chuckles just thinking about what Harold Camping says on the radio.

 

[woobadooba]

We might not agree with blacksabb's condemnation of membership in a denomination, or take his same bitter attitude, when you read his experience it brings up a point important to the topic of this thread.

People may be bitter with the church because they have been treated badly, but that doesn't give them the right to come in here and cast dark clouds over us with their disrespectful rhetoric. By doing this they are not offering a solution to the problem, but merely adding more fuel to the fire.

You're obviously new here, so you may not have witnessed what has been going on in here for the past year. Many people have come in here merely to stir up trouble. This is why this forum is practically dead. A lot of people left as a result of this.

This antagonistic attitude is not going to be tolerated in here anymore. If people want to come in here and cause trouble then they should stay out of our forum. We do have rules here, and they should be respected by everyone.

 

[Dasdream]

I don't run with anything.

You said you hate to admit it. I would like you to answer me...

Why?

well you're proving it right there. You are very hard to get along with. Questioning every little thing, man you must live really stressed out! Just chill, relax take the message for the point not the words that were used to get the point across.

 

[woobadooba]

well you're proving it right there. You are very hard to get along with. Questioning every little thing, man you must live really stressed out! Just chill, relax take the message for the point not the words that were used to get the point across.

I know why you said it. My question was designed to get you to use more discretion in the manner in which you address others.

Our words often betray us.

 

[tall73]

Heard Mr. Camping a few times

As for Adventists, I would say it is simply that we are quite a bit different. There is no way around it. Our focus on the Sabbath makes people think we are OT Judaizers. Our focus on death makes people think we are a bit odd, etc. But anytime you are different you will be misunderstood a bit.

I also thought it was an interesting point that was made that our beliefs on prophecy etc. are more detailed. Quite true. Most denominations don't need 20 some studies to tell you what they believe.

Oh and, Woobadooba, if I ever want to back talk you I will have the wifey do it. She is the same age as you! haha.

 

[tall73]

[/font]

Interestingly I have never met anyone who was introduced to what the SDA church teaches by being told what the 27 fundamental beliefs were. In our case, we were brought into the church because our neighbor gave us Bible studies something our church never did.

[/font]

Hmmm, I've been an SDA for over 40 years and been in over a dozen churches and there wasn't anyone who took "pride" in such things.
!

I am glad to hear that. But I have pastored 7 churches, and been a member of several more, and I can tell you there are a number of folks who take pride in such things and lead with the pork, or the day or death etc.

I knew of at least two Adventists who would go up to complete strangers in restraunts and start talking about their pork or smoking.

One of them was in a small town too. That certainly didn't help the cause.

There is a reason we are told not to put our most objectionable points first.

Actually a couple reasons.

a. it needlessly offends.
b. some of the most objectionable are not the most important.

But when something is important and needs to be said, then say it. Even salvation is a savor of life unto life to some and death unto death to others. All truth is testing truth for somebody.

 

[woobadooba]

Oh and, Woobadooba, if I ever want to back talk you I will have the wifey do it. She is the same age as you! haha.

Good one! LOL

 

[BlackSabb]

Brother blacksabb, have you ever heard of Harold Camping and his ministry, Family Radio? What he teaches sounds exactly like what you are saying. You might find there a kindred spirit.

No I haven't actually, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to have a look into it.

And Woodabooda, (gosh,did I get that right?), you're as defensive as I am. And just because I question things doesn't mean I'm stirring up trouble. There is a difference. And if you look at my posts and be honest, you'd see that I have in fact said much stronger words against the Pentecostals and their numerous excesses.

Have I come here arguing against your Sabbath, not eating pork or other considered unlcean foods, or against any of your other doctrines. No, I have simply stated my position against denominationality, and my experiences in both Pentecostal and Adventist churches. If that is being a trouble stirrer, then I am in your eyes one.

Your pal and buddy, BlackSabb. Lol.

 

[djconklin]

I am glad to hear that. But I have pastored 7 churches, and been a member of several more, and I can tell you there are a number of folks who take pride in such things and lead with the pork, or the day or death etc.

I knew of at least two Adventists who would go up to complete strangers in restraunts and start talking about their pork or smoking.

One of them was in a small town too. That certainly didn't help the cause.

There is a reason we are told not to put our most objectionable points first.

Actually a couple reasons.

a. it needlessly offends.
b. some of the most objectionable are not the most important.

But when something is important and needs to be said, then say it. Even salvation is a savor of life unto life to some and death unto death to others. All truth is testing truth for somebody.

>But I have pastored 7 churches,

Where?

> I can tell you there are a number of folks who take pride in such things and lead with the pork, or the day or death etc.

And my quess would be that the number is few and far between, not the norm as your previous post seemed to make it to be.

>One of them was in a small town too. That certainly didn't help the cause. ....

That's very true.

From another post by Tall:

>Our focus on death makes people think we are a bit odd,

"Focus"?!?

 

[woobadooba]

And Woodabooda, (gosh,did I get that right?), you're as defensive as I am. And just because I question things doesn't mean I'm stirring up trouble. There is a difference. And if you look at my posts and be honest, you'd see that I have in fact said much stronger words against the Pentecostals and their numerous excesses.

I welcome discussion in here with non-SDAs; but when such people show themselves to be antagonistic, which is what you have been doing whether you realise it or not, the line for civil discussion is crossed.

Can you share your ideas without insulting us?

Think about that...

You have insulted us in many ways. You have basically referred to us as not being real Christians because we are a part of a group of people with a name. You have also stated that we don't understand 1Cor. 1:10-11. What right do you have to say this? You don't know us on an individual basis, and have no right to make such a hasty judgment call.

Now if you want to fellowship with us, then do so in love. But if you can't do that, then I kindly ask you to go somewhere else. For this forum has suffered enough abuse, and as a result of this many have left. It's really sad that this has happened.

 

[BlackSabb]

I welcome discussion in here with non-SDAs; but when such people show themselves to be antagonistic, which is what you have been doing whether you realise it or not, the line for civil discussion is crossed.

Can you share your ideas without insulting us?

Think about that...

You have insulted us in many ways. You have basically referred to us as not being real Christians because we are a part of a group of people with a name. You have also stated that we don't understand 1Cor. 1:10-11. What right do you have to say this? You don't know us on an individual basis, and have no right to make such a hasty judgment call.

Now if you want to fellowship with us, then do so in love. But if you can't do that, then I kindly ask you to go somewhere else. For this forum has suffered enough abuse, and as a result of this many have left. It's really sad that this has happened.

Dude, I haven't "insulted" you at all. If you want to get angry, then get angry at some of your more extreme elements in your churches that insults all other churches and condemns them all, and makes you look like a cult. Hey, like I said, I just say it as I saw it myself. Your anger at me is misplaced.

Why don't you quote me for all to see where I have claimed you are not real Christians and insulted you all. I bet you can't.

 

[tall73]

Where?

I don't give out that info. Call me paranoid.

I can tell you there are a number of folks who take pride in such things and lead with the pork, or the day or death etc.

And my quess would be that the number is few and far between, not the norm as your previous post seemed to make it to be.

Which post? And I didn't say they were the norm. But they make others think they are the norm. That is the problem.

Our focus on death makes people think we are a bit odd,

"Focus"?!?

Yup, focus.
It is one of the doctrines. And we do focus.

 

[Telaquapacky]

Bro Wooba:
Sorry to hear about the decline in this Forum, guess I missed out. I have been on a secular forum which just happened to have a "Christianity" section in it- I was the only Adventist, and the other members were worldly.

I learned a lot by being forced to more carefully study out my positions, and in seeing our paradigm in contrast to those of others, and to learn how to be respectful and polemic at the same time. But the lack of fellowship made it lonely, and I felt I was wasting my time.

Others have left. But I'm here.

 

[djconklin]

Where?

I don't give out that info. Call me paranoid.

Call me skeptical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tall73
I can tell you there are a number of folks who take pride in such things and lead with the pork, or the day or death etc.


And my quess would be that the number is few and far between, not the norm as your previous post seemed to make it to be.


Which post? And I didn't say they were the norm. But they make others think they are the norm. That is the problem.

I didn't say that you said it was the norm--you read English ab't as "carefully" as do the critics of the SDA church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tall73
Our focus on death makes people think we are a bit odd,


"Focus"?!?

Yup, focus.
It is one of the doctrines. And we do focus.

Yes we have a doctrine on the state of the dead; but in 40 yrs as an SDA I can hardly count on one hand the number of times the subject came up at or near the beginning of any conversation (eventually, when other subjects are dealt with it comes up). So, I can hardly (with a straight face) claim that we "focus" on it. The Sabbath would be closer to the truth.

 

[Sophia7]

This is a reminder that only Seventh-day Adventists are allowed to debate or teach in this congregational forum, according to Rule 1.4:

1.4 Congregational Areas

You may post in any of the Congregational Forums if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God, but you may not argue or debate with members of particular denominations and groups in their congregational areas unless you are a member of that particular denomination or group.

Others may post only fellowship or questions.

 

[tall73]

Call me skeptical.

I choose not to give out personal information about myself on the net because of the possibility of danger to me and my family. It is not only a good idea not to do so but it is in the rules for this forum not to give out personal info. If I were to name the churches someone could find me on the net in about 4 minutes with little effort.

Do you doubt me because of my age?
There are pastors in their 20's who have pastored 30 churches in Mexico. Multiple church districts are the norm in most places of the world, including North America. 2-5 church districts happen all the time. It doesn't take long to pastor 7 churches.

Or perhaps you just doubt because you are naturally skeptical. Or perhaps you didn't like something I said.

This is the internet, so I couldn't prove anything to you anyway. You will either have to take my word for it or count me a liar. That is your choice

But the thread asked for people's opinion so I gave mine. If your experience differs, that is your experience. I am glad to hear it. But it doesn't change mine or mean that I am lying because I have seen some people who focus on the distinctives.

I didn't say that you said it was the norm--you read English ab't as "carefully" as do the critics of the SDA church.

here is what you said:

And my quess would be that the number is few and far between, not the norm as your previous post seemed to make it to be.

Sounds like you thought I was saying it was the norm.

Yes we have a doctrine on the state of the dead; but in 40 yrs as an SDA I can hardly count on one hand the number of times the subject came up at or near the beginning of any conversation (eventually, when other subjects are dealt with it comes up). So, I can hardly (with a straight face) claim that we "focus" on it. The Sabbath would be closer to the truth.

And I have been an adventist for about 25 years and I have. This makes me a critic of the church? Because I have seen something you haven't in the church does not make me a critic of the church . When I see such things I don't blame the church. These people are the ones who do it and I try to reason with them that they could have a more effective approach.

Or does it just mean that I have run into more people who do this? Your experiences are not mine. I will give mine and you can give yours, and we will all draw our own conclusions.

 

[djconklin]

Quote: I choose not to give out personal information about myself on the net because of the possibility of danger to me and my family. It is not only a good idea not to do so but it is in the rules for this forum not to give out personal info. If I were to name the churches someone could find me on the net in about 4 minutes with little effort.

And why, pray tell, would you and your family be in "danger"?

Quote:
I didn't say that you said it was the norm--you read English ab't as "carefully" as do the critics of the SDA church.
here is what you said:
Quote: Sounds like you thought I was saying it was the norm.

The key words here are "Sounds like"--I did NOT say that you said it was the "norm"--you are reading that into what I said.