Why did some of the Jewish people turn away?

[Clearly]

[FONT=&quot]POST TWO OF TWO
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[FONT=&quot]Rivertree said in post # 19 : “When I first read your first 2 posts, I just thought, “Where’s his concept of grace in all this?” But I realise now that you just did not happen to emphasize the concept at that time. I was the one whose spirit needed to be reminded of grace, and that though there is apostasy, mistakes (purposeful and not purposeful), and all kinds of challenges, that grace is over all and never fails.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am not sure what sort of context you are looking to place “grace” while considering “why jews turned away”.

However, the grace of God manifests itself in ALL aspects of gospel principles, since it is THE great underlying principle behind God’s motives and actions towards all mankind, whether faithful OR apostate. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Even apostate Israel, upon repenting and "returning" to God and the redeemer Jesus, will, ultimately be gathered and be accepted. This theme of “chastening’ of Israel for a time by the loss of prophetic religion, only to later gather the elect among them is a thread that runs through much of the Old Testament epigraphia. For examples : [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Baruch reminds Israel that though Israel is not spared, still, because of his grace, God always benefitted them (and, though he chastens them, all that he does is for our ultimate good). : “You who have drunk the clarified wine, you now drink it’s dregs, for the judgment of the Most High is impartial. Therefore, he did not spare his own sons first, but he afflicted them as his enemies because they sinned. Therefore, they were once punished, that they might be forgiven. But now, you nations and tribes, you are guilty, because you have trodden the earth all this time and because you have used creation unrighteously, for I have always benefitted you, and you have always denied the beneficence” . The apocalypse of Baruch (Baruch 2) 13:8-12[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Speaking of Israel, it was said in Jubilees : “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And [/FONT][FONT=&quot]afterward they will turn to me from among the nations with all their heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and with all their soul and with all their might. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And I shall gather them from the midst of all the nations[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. And they will seek me so that I might be found by them. When they seek me with all their heart and with all their soul, I shall reveal to them an abundance of peace in righteousness. And with all my heart and with all my soul, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I shall transplant them as a righteous plant. And they will be a blessing and not a curse[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. And they will be the head and not the tail. And I shall build my sanctuary in their midst, and I shall dwell with them. And I shall be their God and they will be my people truly and rightly. And I shall not forsake them, and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I shall not be alienated from them because I am the Lord their God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“ (the book of division 1:15-17) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Psalms of Solomon #17, v26, 30-32[/FONT][FONT=&quot] promises the Jews that, according to God’s charity and mercy and grace, that Israel and Jerusalem will, once again, become holy. Napthali also testifies of Israels’ late and righteous gathering by a Gracious God. 4Q reminds us that it was prophesied among the jews that they would be chastened by dispersion, but that ultimately, and mercifully, Gods’ spirit would come upon Israel in the latter days and they would return to him. Jubilees describes and repeats this theme many times in the same way that biblical Ezekiel does. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This is the same set of themes found in the old testament literature in examples such as : Deut. 30:3 when the Lord says he will “…gather thee from all the nations, or Isa. 43:5 promises that “…I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee…” or Isa. 54:7 relates that “…with great mercies will I gather thee…”; Jer. 3:17 prophesies in a similar context that “… all the nations shall be gathered unto Jerusalem…” and, though Israel is to be “chastened”, they are yet promised in Jer. 31:10 that “…He that scattered Israel will gather him…”; Ezek. 11:17 repeats God’s promise that “…I will even gather you from the people…”; Ezek. 28:25 repeats theme of gathering “… the house of Israel from the people…”; Ezek. 34:12 “As a shepherd ... so will I seek out my sheep….”; Ezek. 37:21 (37:21–28) relates that God “…will gather them on every side….” And in obvious Symbolism, Ezek. 39:27 relates he will “…gather them out of their enemies' lands…”, etc. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In such instances, epigraphic Judao-Christian literature is not simply a repetition of biblical [/FONT][FONT=&quot]doctrines,but the epigraphs offer contextual clarity as to what such themes MEANT to the jews [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and Christians of the early Judao-Christian era. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Such context helps us understand, for example, not only what Jesus meant by the statement [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that “The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]fruits thereof[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (Matt 21:42-43) since such statements are made inside the context of the promise [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that “… they shall come [/FONT][FONT=&quot]from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be [/FONT][FONT=&quot]first, and there are first which shall be last.[/FONT][FONT=&quot](Luke 13:29-30). Though their ultimate “return" to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the kingdom might be in last place, still, they believed that many jews will be gathered [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and return.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If God, in his infinite mercy and grace is attempting to educate mankind in learning and mastering moral laws which will ultimately allow them to live in a social heaven in harmony and peace for an eternity, then it makes sense that certain lessons are of an eternal nature. Perhaps one of the lessons mankind needs to learn is that, if they reject and separate themselves from authentic religion and guidance from God, that their own honest and best efforts of the best of them are inefficient, insufficient, and ultimately, ineffectual. Though God knows this, he has patience and grace enough to allow the Jews (and all other of his children) to discover, by their own experience, the truth of these principles for themselves.[/FONT]

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Clearly[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]futwtzri
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[rivertree]

Hi Clearly,

I appreciate the suggestions and guidance you have given.

“[FONT=&amp]Perhaps you can start by looking at the c.e. era texts BEFORE tackling the earlier texts. For example, you might start with the very orthodox “apostolic fathers” (originally edited by the wonderful Anglican bishop / historian and scholar, J.B. Lightfoot). You might also look at the didache as a fairly readable early document. Perhaps pick one of the early Christian novels such as Clements’ recognitions or an early diary such as Passion of Perpetua or perhaps an early historical account written in later years such as Bishop Timothy (of Jerusalem) and his “discourse on Abbaton” (though it was written 4th century, it was an account taken from earlier texts Bishop Timothy found in jerusalems library).”[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]I will follow through on this, I think, though I’m not known for my follow through. But I am known for my curiosity [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]I like reading the Didache- it’s on my Kindle. Have the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs and other things there now, too.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]I’m pleased about getting some references- hope I can find them.[/FONT]


By grace, I sort of mean help given with all those new resources made available to us now, and determinations about them- that everything will come out right. And if it doesn’t come out right immediately, which it will not, of course, that we be given the ability to have ultimate trust in the outcome. We need grace also to avoid anger, pride, judgmentalism, and incorrect doctrines.

Clearly: “[FONT=&amp]If God, in his infinite mercy and grace is attempting to educate mankind in learning and mastering moral laws which will ultimately allow them to live in a social heaven in harmony and peace for an eternity, then it makes sense that certain lessons are of an eternal nature. Perhaps one of the lessons mankind needs to learn is that, if they reject and separate themselves from authentic religion and guidance from God, that their own honest and best efforts of the best of them are insufficient, inefficient, and ultimately, ineffectual. Though God knows this, he has patience and grace enough to allow the Jews (and all other of his children) to discover, by their own experience, the truth of these principles for themselves.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Thank you for writing this positive message just above, Clearly, I will think it through and sincerely ponder it. [/FONT]