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Featured LDS Why did Joseph Smith lie about teachings in the Book of Mormon

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Christian Apologist, May 16, 2019 at 1:54 PM.

  1. Christian Apologist

    Christian Apologist Member

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    Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

    So if that’s the case why can’t we find these teachings in the Book of Mormon ?

    1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)

    2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)

    3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)

    4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)

    5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)

    6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)

    7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)

    8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)

    9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)

    10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)

    11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)

    12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)

    13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)

    14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)

    15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)

    16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus' plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)

    17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)

    18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)

    19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)

    20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith's consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)

    21. Not everything you'll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)"

    22. Jesus was Married and Practiced polygamy (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210).

    (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82).

    (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259).

    23. No eternal hell

    LDS Apostle John Widtsoe declared, "In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there is no hell. All will find a measure of salvation" (E. & R., p. 216). Yet, the B. of M. says, "The devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell and behold others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell" (II Nephi 28:21-22). Thus, the B. of M. explains where Mormonism got its doctrine of no hell!



    The B. of M. also says, "If ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked" (Alma 34:35).



    24. Animal sacrifice after Jesus' blood was shed



    RESTORATION OF BLOOD SACRIFICES. We are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam's transgression. 44 Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored. 45



    The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.



    3 Nephi 9:19 Jesus was supposed to have said: "And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings."



    25. Atonement happened in Garden of Gethsemane



    The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints does not view the atonement of Christ in the biblical and historical Christian manner. Instead of the atonement occurring on the cross, Mormonism teaches that the atonement occurred primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus shed His blood. Please consider the following quotes from a BYU professor and the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.

    •BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross."

    •Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, "Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane," (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 774,

    1 Nephi 11:33

    And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.



    26. Eternal Progression

    27. Maintaining genealogical records

    28. Mormons hold keys to the kingdom

    29 . Eternal Families

    30 . creation from matter and Ex Nihilo wrong

    Jacob 4:9 For behold, by the power of his a word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the dearth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?

    31. Exaltation

    32. Everyone will be saved thru Grace just not exalted

    32. God is not omniscient

    God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end." Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses Vol. 6:120

    33. Garden of Eden in Missouri

    34. Continuing Revelation

    35. Mormon Plan of salvation

    36. The ROCK is revelation rather than Jesus

    Helaman 5:12

    12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
     
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  2. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    What have I told you in the past about the readability of really long posts?

    How about taking things one matter at a time?
     
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  3. RichardY

    RichardY Panentheist Whig.

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    Tool of Satan.
     
  4. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    What is a tool of satan?
     
  5. Christian Apologist

    Christian Apologist Member

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    It is to demonstrate the Book of Mormon lacking any Core Mormon beliefs admitted to by Mormon leadership, an example below of one admittance

    Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

    Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:
    General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

    The Truth about Mormonism: Preparatory versus Fullness of the Gospel
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 3:38 PM
  6. RichardY

    RichardY Panentheist Whig.

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    @Peter1000
    Whoever lies, and does not repent or attempt to make amends. An Atheist is a liar and blasphemer for instance, though he may initially be mistaken, as was I. Taken in by the crowd or principalities, but ultimately Satan. Without Good and Evil there is no reality, or freewill. There is no reason to hold anyone accountable, only the will of devils, that continue to exist only due to the mercy of God.

    Not being able to discern the necessarily correct theology. Anything that does not confer with Christopher Langan's CTMU (Holopantheism), or a Panentheistic model of ultimate reality, in the vein of Plotinus.

    The only Christian sects that I am able to discern so far are Anabaptist, Messianic and Eastern Orthodox.
     
  7. USincognito

    USincognito Do u? Supporter

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    Smith didn't "lie". He made up a new theology for his new religion. Saying he lied would be like saying L. Ron Hubbard lied.

    His most egregious act of making stuff up is referred to as Mormon Archaeology which has utterly no basis in science or reality.
     
  8. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    You sir have not studied Mormon Archaeology to its fullest then.
     
  9. Christian Apologist

    Christian Apologist Member

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    Doesn't take much study

    Archeology.jpg
     
  10. USincognito

    USincognito Do u? Supporter

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    Please spare me the faux gentility and I don't need to have "studied" it. I have read the claims and there are numerous anarchronisms and a bunch of outright false claims.
    - No pre-Columbian horses after the Pleistocene.
    - No cattle period.
    - No swine.
    - No goats.
    - No silk.
    - No steel.
    - Supposed Egyptian engravings aren't.
    - etc.
     
  11. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Everything you say No to, you must add this disclaimer: "at this time" we have found no evidence of...

    You know that in 1830 when JS first published the BOM there were probably 30 things he said that were outrageously stupid from a scientific point of view. In 2019, more than 70% of them have been found to be true, so the disclaimer is warranted for the rest of them.

    You also know that only about 8% of Mesoamerica has been dug up and studied. So until 100% is dug up and studied we will have to hold our comments. Is that reasonable?
     
  12. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    You haven't done your homework either. Study up
     
  13. RichardY

    RichardY Panentheist Whig.

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    If I were to choose a religion for material benefit and wishful thinking, it would probably be Islam or Mormonism. The downside, if you leave you lose your soul!!!!

    Although even on a base "planet of the apes" level, and seductive spiritual corruption, it might be more rewarding to start your own cult and not serve. Non serviam.

    Both religions guarantee massive celestial sex in the here after. And pretty much on earth, providing you're not one ugly mother and are a sociopath.(Or have been indoctrinated into it.)If that doesn't float your boat, there's political and financial connections. And to add to that Satan rules the world, so if they're Evil you're well supplied. The world leaders are not retarded, they are given into evil.

    Making up stuff, often becomes perverse.

    I don't think it's an accident most churches guarantee salvation. Or go with predestination as their doctrine. The way is supposed to be narrow. It easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. They made their choice, they could change it, given scripture or better information. I'm still learning. It's not too hard to contrast with comparisons, and fidelity to scripture, with the Internet. Or who's the guy with the biggest skull/brain, why not listen to him?

    Civilization and souls have to burn. Why? Because hurt feelings and cold hard cash.

    I feel I should follow Jesus Christs example. I can't do it alone. I don't think insurance applies.
     
  14. Christian Apologist

    Christian Apologist Member

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    I have done my home work Archaeologist .jpg
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 7:31 PM
  15. Christian Apologist

    Christian Apologist Member

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    Would like to know where you got your factious numbers ?

    The Truth about Mormonism: The misinformation and hyperbole of the Mormon leaders pertaining to the Book Of Mormon
     
  16. USincognito

    USincognito Do u? Supporter

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    Standard Mormon apologia. The problem is not that we haven't yet found evidence for those things, but that all the evidence we find contradicts those things.

    This is more apologia. List three and we'll discuss them.

    That's not how it words. And see my above comment. There is zero evidence of Mesoamericans having any domestic animals other than llamas, guinea pigs and Muscovy ducks. There is zero evidence that any of the structures we have found are derived from ancient Hebrew or Egyptian buildings.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 9:51 PM
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  17. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    If we were to start posting links showing the actual discoveries that critics of the church try to pretend never happened, would anyone actually bother reading them?
     
  18. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    he just asked for three. Give it a try
     
  19. RichardY

    RichardY Panentheist Whig.

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    @Ironhold
    In Islam you are a slave to Allah's word in the Quran, if you leave you lose your soul.(Are chained.)

    How is it different in Mormonism.

    Through a glass darkly, do we see.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    1. Once upon a time, critics of the church mocked the prospect that the gold plates could have existed. They further boldly proclaimed that if they did exist, the plates would be too heavy for any one person to carry.

    Tumbaga - Wikipedia

    It's now established fact that a gold / copper alloy known as "Tumbaga" was in use in pre-Columbian Central America, and that its uses included religious items.

    And as an alloy of gold, it's much lighter. I've seen estimates have the plates as low as 90 pounds, which is less than the weight of a US infantryman's standard combat gear.

    2. Once upon a time, critics of the church proclaimed that swords didn't exist in Central America before Columbus.

    Macuahuitl - Wikipedia

    It's now established fact that in Central America, many peoples had weapons made by using tree sap to affix sharpened obsidian to wood. One version of this weapon, the one in the main pic on the article, is akin to a European broadsword and the early conquistadors spoke of its power in battle.

    Back when Discovery Networks maintained their own message forums, the "Mythbusters" fan site - which I was on - kept getting spammed by people wanting to see this tested.

    3. Once upon a time, critics of the church laughed at the prospect of people in Central America wearing armor in battle.

    Aztec warfare - Wikipedia

    The Aztecs had a type of padded armor (over which they'd wear tunics), a type of carved wooden shield, and a type of carved wooden helmet.

    It's basic stuff, but it would have been more than enough to deal with hurled rocks or blunt weaponry.


    That's three things archaeology has declared - beyond dispute - that Central America had even though critics of the church swear they don't exist.
     
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