Why did Jesus instruct a healed man to break the Sabbath?

myst33 said:

Carrying a mat is work. Its basically moving his furniture and that was not allowed, as Jews reminded to the man.

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Interesting that you take your beliefs from those who murdered Jesus. I find that extremely odd, as it is a devil inspired belief because it is the devil who is a murderer.

myst33 said:

This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.
Jer 17:21 (NIV)

Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”
But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”
J 5:8-11 (NIV)

"...they tried all the more to kill him [Jesus]; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God"
J 5:18 (NIV)

The carrying of the mat was not necessary for the healing or walking.

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Jesus was not stating anything against the Word of God . No text said that a man who had been healed could not pick his mat/rug and blanket - and walk home. Jesus knew that but the Pharisees were very keen to 'make stuff up' then charge God with it - as if God was behind whatever traditions they came up with.

No wonder in Mark 7:7-13 Christ condemned those traditions "handed down" that were being passed off as if it was God speaking

myst33 said:

Was this also a ridiculous interpretation?

Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
Lk 23:56

If the preparing of a dead body for a proper burial was not allowed, why would a public carrying of a bed across the city be allowed?

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'All' laws are a matter of judgement if they are not specifically outlined by the law, and Jesus made His call and Judgement on that Sabbath day concerning the interpretation of 'their' unwritten law. I dont know if there was a specific law against preparing a body (we may not even know since it was oral law) it is more likely an interpretation of the Sabbath law. The Pharisees chose their interpretation above Jesus' and that was their prerogative. Allbeit, as we learn later that Jesus being The Law giver Himself overrides their Judgement of this interpretation of the Sabbat Law.

Again, the Pharisees were voicing an 'interpretation' of the law - not quoting the Sabbath Law itself

myst33 said:

2895 krábbatos – a small bed used by the poor
Usage: a bed, mattress

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You're using a modern definition of mattress and applying it to ancient times which is not the same.

myst33 said:

You are welcome to quote him. The only His commentary in this context about sin is:

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
J 5:14

Anyway, you are also getting off-topic. This thread is about "why".

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You're adding the sin was picking up the mattress when Jesus never said that.

I know Jesus is not a sinner, nor would He ever ask anyone else to sin, this is how the Pharisees believed who were enemies of Christ and crucified Jesus without cause. You can believe what you want, we have free will.

Studyman said:

According to the Jesus of the Bible, the Pharisees who were accusing Jesus of Sin, were "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" and were "Transgressing God's commandments by their own religious tradition".

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That was just one among many corrupted things they did.

Studyman said:

You can find this biblical Truth in Matt. 15, Mark 7, Matt. 23. and elsewhere, should you be interested. Would it not be prudent then, to consider that perhaps the Pharisees sabbath traditions, and God's Sabbath commandment, were not the same?

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God's Sabbath for which He rested in satisfaction was now incarnate as man - Jesus.
Jesus turned them away from everything to have them see all God commanded and needed was in Him - the Son of God.

And He was about to dispense Himself into man after accomplishing an eternal redemption.

Studyman said:

Would it not be True then, that Jesus didn't disobey or dishonor His Father, who HE says is the One True God, by Breaking God's Sabbath, rather, HE refused to walk in or abide by the Pharisees Sabbath Tradition?

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You have to go beyond the beginning understanding of resting on the 7th day.
God created man in His image to express Him and for dominion to rule for Him.

Who totally expressed God's glory to the uttermost? Jesus the Son of God.
Who exercised the authority of God to defeat all that is in rebellion to God? Jesus the Son of God.

So in the Son the Father had full rest and satisfaction. The Sabbath had become incarnated as a man.

And behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. (Matt. 3:17)

Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light. (Matt. 11:28-30))

Studyman said:

So then, is it possible that Jesus didn't break even the Least of His Father Commandments, and teach others to do the same?

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He went out of His way to do as I discribed above. He manifested that He Himself was the image and expression of God.
And He Himself by living by the Father within Him exercised God's dominion over everything in creation.

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and henceforth you know Him and have seen Him. (John 14;7)

And the men marveled, saying, What kind of man is this that even the winds and the sea obey Him? (Matt. 8:27)

Jesus came as the greater Jonah. He came as the greater David. He came as something greater than the temple.
And He came as the greater 7th day Sabbath.

And He further comes into man to dispense His life and nature into man.

myst33 said:

This is a logical fallacy.

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And what is the fallacy?

oikonomia said:

That was just one among many corrupted things they did.

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Yes. Mk. 7: 13 Making the "word of God" of none effect through "your" tradition, which ye have delivered: "and many such like things do ye".

But the point is, Jesus didn't break God's commandment, HE broke the Pharisees religious Tradition. It was never against God's Sabbath Commandment to carry a blanket, a matt to sit or lay on, a child, or even food prepared for your children, into Jerusalem on God's Holy Sabbath. It was against the mainstream religious traditions of that time, not against God's Commandment.

If the foundation of one's belief is that Jesus Transgressed God's commandment here, then their foundation is Leaven, or a deception. And this Leaven leavens the whole lump which means their entire philosophy regarding this scripture is corrupted and polluted from the very core. And everything built on it, is polluted as well.

This is why it's important to separate what God's Word actually teaches, from this world's religious doctrines and traditions. Like Jesus did with the mainstream preachers of His Time.

oikonomia said:

God's Sabbath for which He rested in satisfaction was now incarnate as man - Jesus.
Jesus turned them away from everything to have them see all God commanded and needed was in Him - the Son of God.

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I'm more interested in what the Jesus of the Bible actually teaches.

John 17: 3 And "this is life eternal", that they might know thee the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except "the Father" which hath sent me "draw him": and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught "of God". "Every man" therefore that hath heard, "and hath learned of the Father", cometh unto me.

And when I learned of the Father and was drawn to the Jesus "of the Bible", here is what HE taught me.

Matt. 6: 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Now Eve was convinced she could live forever, apart from God's Instruction in Righteousness. In like manner, "many" who come in Christ's Name today, promote the same Philosophy, that I can "Enter Life" apart from "Yielding Myself" a servant to obey God, becoming a New Man, "which "after God" is created in righteousness and true holiness."

Jesus promotes no such religious philosophy in my view.

oikonomia said:

And He was about to dispense Himself into man after accomplishing an eternal redemption.

You have to go beyond the beginning understanding of resting on the 7th day.
God created man in His image to express Him and for dominion to rule for Him.

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There are philosophies put in place by this world's religions to justify Transgressing God's commandments. Jesus said to "Take Heed of these "many" who come in Christ's Name but promote deceptions about Him and God. Like that Jesus came to free men from God's instruction in Righteousness.

These "other voices" in the garden are necessary for testing God's People as they were for Eve, so as the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

These "many" other voices, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who are disguised as Apostles of Christ, exist in this world's religious sects and businesses. Jesus Himself warned us of this very thing. They are the ones who promote the falsehood that Jesus Broke His Father's Commandments. The Holy Scriptures teach no such thing.

oikonomia said:

Who totally expressed God's glory to the uttermost? Jesus the Son of God.
Who exercised the authority of God to defeat all that is in rebellion to God? Jesus the Son of God.

So in the Son the Father had full rest and satisfaction. The Sabbath had become incarnated as a man.

And behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. (Matt. 3:17)

Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light. (Matt. 11:28-30))

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Again, because men have been deceived into believing God's Commandments are a Yoke of Bondage, they inject their own justification for rebelling against them. The Jesus "of the Bible", according to HIS Own Words, was the Lord of the Sabbath days that God "made for men". He didn't become the Sabbath, and Never even implied such a thing. In Matt. 11, He was simply quoting His Own Inspired Words from Jeremiah, "when HE was up where HE was before".

Jer. 6: 16 Thus saith the LORD, (Who became flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, "and ye shall find rest for your souls". But they said, We will not walk therein.

As it is to this Day.

oikonomia said:

He went out of His way to do as I discribed above. He manifested that He Himself was the image and expression of God.
And He Himself by living by the Father within Him exercised God's dominion over everything in creation.

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Not to promote disobedience to God though. That is the deception of the prince of this world, that Jesus transgressed or promoted transgression of His Fathers commandments to exercise dominion of God's creation. That Jesus promoting the transgression of the Sabbath Commandment. That Jesus brought His Own instruction in righteousness or Abolished God's Judgments, and Statutes.

This philosophy is seductive in that a religious sect or business can create an image of God in the likeness of a long haired handsome man, and then assign their preferred religious traditions to Him. The religious man that results is one we are warned about over and over in the Holy scriptures.

Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, "ye that work iniquity".

Jesus saw this popular religious philosophy of this world that "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord are promoting, coming, and in His Love for me, prepared me for it.

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I disagree with the popular religious philosophy being promoted in this thread, because of what is actually written in Scriptures. Jesus didn't tell the man HE healed to "Go and Break God's Commandments". Though there are "many" who imply HE did.

oikonomia said:

If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and henceforth you know Him and have seen Him. (John 14;7)

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23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep "my words": and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not "keepeth not" my sayings: and the word which ye hear "is not mine", but the Father's which sent me.

As it is written in the Law and Prophets.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Is this not the Same Rock, that became a man in the person of Jesus?

oikonomia said:

And the men marveled, saying, What kind of man is this that even the winds and the sea obey Him? (Matt. 8:27)

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Matt. 26: 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and "he shall presently give me" more than twelve legions of angels?

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Was it not His Father that calmed the seas on His behalf?

oikonomia said:

Jesus came as the greater Jonah. He came as the greater David. He came as something greater than the temple.
And He came as the greater 7th day Sabbath.

And He further comes into man "to dispense His life and nature into man".

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Here is what the Jesus of the Bible actually teaches about His Father.

John 8: 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Luke 4: 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

John 4: 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers "shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth": for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Matt. 6: 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

What we have here is the perspective of two men, one who believes Jesus broke God's Sabbath, and became God's Sabbath. And one who believes Jesus came to bring God's Word to those who had been deceived by this world's religions.

Certainly, an important topic to discuss and discern.

myst33 said:

You are also focusing just on "was it against the Mosaic Law"

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So is Christ in Mark 7:7-13 - have you read it?

Note the title of this thread - if you would like second reason for such a focus on this particular thread.

myst33 said:

instead of on the question "why did Jesus gave this instruction".

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Already answered it - Jesus did NOT give any instruction at all against Law.

And in Matt 5 He condemns the idea that people would accuse Him of such a thing.

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least" Matt 5

Studyman said:

According to the Jesus of the Bible, the Pharisees who were accusing Jesus of Sin, were "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men" and were "Transgressing God's commandments by their own religious tradition". You can find this biblical Truth in Matt. 15, Mark 7, Matt. 23. and elsewhere, should you be interested. Would it not be prudent then, to consider that perhaps the Pharisees sabbath traditions, and God's Sabbath commandment, were not the same?

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Good point. In fact -- irrefutable.

Studyman said:

HE refused to walk in or abide by the Pharisees Sabbath Tradition?

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yep - that is what we see in places like Mark 7:7-13 when God's Word is in direct conflict with the traditions and commandments of men

Studyman said:

In your religion, was it against God's Sabbath Law for a woman to carry her child out of her house, into the Gates of Jerusalem on God's Sabbath?

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Maybe there is a Pharisee around today to make up such a law and the blame God for it. The someone else can come along and ask why God is commanding a woman to break His Law...

Studyman said:

Matt. 5: 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Wouldn't the popular religious philosophy that Jesus Broke His Father's Sabbath Commandment, and taught the healed man to do the same, make Jesus the same as the Pharisees?

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good point

myst33 said:

1. I do not take beliefs from them
2. Evil deeds do not mean that everything they taught or said (even decades before Jesus) is a lie/wrong
3. When devil is a murderer and somebody else is also a murderer, it does not follow that devil also inspired him in a different area
4. Not all Pharisees or teachers of the Law who were contemporaries of Jesus murdered Jesus or were evil, for example Nicodemus or Gamaliel.

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You're not saying what logical fallacy I used.