Why did Jesus have to die?

[devastated]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

 

[Hammster]

Forgiveness always comes at a cost. And the cost was more than we could bear.

If I put a dent in your car, you could say I was forgiven, but someone still has to pay to have that dent removed.

<*(((><

 

[Kristos]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

Jesus forgave people all the time, so his death was about more than just forgiveness. Jesus gave grace to people according their ability to receive it, but even so his grace hard the hearts of many men who then sought to kill him. So in order to forgive us and give us grace, he gave his life. He could have come down from the cross and rained fire on the unbelievers, but that time had past, it was time to manifest God's love and draw all men toward him. The cross is all about God's love for us and his tender mercy.

 

[Skala]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

Salvation is a judicial issue. Just like on earth, a criminal's crimes cannot simply be forgiven by the judge. The criminal owes society a debt, thus they must pay a fine, or go to prison for X amount of time, etc. Only when justice is satisfied is the person considered "just" again by the courts.

In the same way, God cannot simply forgive criminals. His own just nature demands that justice be done and satisfied. To do any less would mean God doesn't care about justice, which makes him unjust (which is evil). So sin and crimes must be atoned for before they can be forgiven. The sin debt we have to God must be paid for.

Jesus had to die because He took upon himself all of our sins, and nailed them to the cross, thus paying for them and satisfying justice. He died the death we should die. He died in our place. He experienced all of God's wrath in our place. So God was able to pour His wrath out on sins, satisfying His justice. Jesus was a substitute for us. Because of Jesus, we are counted as "just" before God's court again. That is, when God looks at us, he doesn't see our sin anymore, because it has already been dealt with justly.

That's why the Bible says that God is both faithful and just to forgive us. Notice, he isn't just faithful/trustworthy to forgive us, but it is just of him to forgive us. Justice has been satisfied on our behalf, so there is no debt we owe, anymore, to God.

 

[John Zain]

IMO, the short and sweet of this is:

For almost all serious crimes ... man can just do time in jail, be forgiven and set free.
But, God's Law is ... sin results in physical and spiritual death.
(Adam was supposed to remain without sin and live forever in God's presence.).
So, in this case, there was NOTHING man could do to save himself.

But, God devised a plan to save mankind (some would say: some of mankind).
IF a sinless human could be found to take man's place (in dying), all would be forgiven.
But, it took an incredible miracle via the Holy Spirit to produce this sinless human.

And, yes, Jesus died both physically and spiritually on the Cross.
That's why He was in such unbearable agony hanging there.
Praise the Lord ... Thank you Jesus.
.

 

[branchofthevine]

this is where an understanding of the Pentateuch would come in handy which I do not claim to have lol, so don't expect much from me
However, from Adam downwards in history humanity has become worse and worse with each generation. Sin which started so small with Adam spreed to infect all of humanity and bind them in its chains. Sin corrupted mankind more and more with each passing generation, this can be seen in Cain, Lamech, the world of Noah (violence through the whole earth), Noah's son, the Tower of Babel, and so on.Even from an early time people where expecting a relief from work and a rescue from sin. Lamech from Seth's line expected Noah to be that Saviour, while others are saviour type people like Abraham and Jacob, and Joseph, but none of these people are actually saviours and none are able to reverse the effect of the fall of man into sin.
-From Adam came a separation between man and God, and this divide caused by sin causes man to run further away from God and into darkness, and throughout the Pentateuch it is made clear that man cannot save himself nor any other man. Only God can save by calling us out of darkness and into His light. Israel was to be an example of a nation that is called by God and lives before the Holiness of God. However, Israel failed majorly and the law given to Israel which was to expose the sinfulness of man and thus produce a cry for Salvation from God and His grace. People like David looked forward to God's coming Salvation, and also the prophets looked forward to the mystery of Salvation of mankind by the grace of God.

This was foreshadowed in the ceremonial sacrifices (read leviticus) and others laws because they were designed to point to Christ. It is the same with basically ever Torah law from Moses, but anyways for the rescue of man from the darkness of sin there needs to be something that takes away that darkness.

to illustrate with an example that works but is not perfect. You fall into water, say a pool and now you are all wet. Well to be dry again you need something to take away your wet-ness, say a towel, well that towel becomes wet so you can become dry. In a sense it is an atoning sacrifice. The towel becomes wet on your behalf so you can be dry. That is basically what the sacrifices were for. They were like our towels taking our sins from us so we can go free, but the blood of animals could not completely clean us because the problem of sin is in our heart not only in our actions.

God's plan was for Jesus to be our atoning sacrifice from the foundation of the world. Only one who has not been tainted by sin can rescue those who are in sin just like a dry towel can only make a wet person dry and a wet towel cannot make a wet person dry. Christ is in a sense the only dry towel that can make anyone and everyone who comes to Him dry again. We are all wet with sin, but Christ becomes wet for our sakes so that we can become dry. Christ takes our sins upon Himself so we can go free.

That is why it is necessary for Jesus to die (sorry for long post)
but I can't explain every reason, this is just a brief reason on my part.

 

[John Zain]

Greetings, Branch, and welcome to the best forum anywhere.

I went to Mt. A. for 4 years ... and now live in San Diego.
And, yes, I agree ... Go Chargers!
.

 

[branchofthevine]

Greetings, Branch, and welcome to the best forum anywhere.

I went to Mt. A. for 4 years ... and now live in San Diego.
And, yes, I agree ... Go Chargers!
.

oh wow, didn't really expect anyone on these forums to know of Crandall haha.

 

[rossignol]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

I look at the death of Jesus abiding by old testament laws relating to sacrifices. His death was the beginning of new laws we see in the new testament. It was important for God's ultimate sacrifice of His Son to be able to take on all of our sins present and future.

The laws aren't for the benefit of God but for us. Our lives are easier and better when we follow His laws. Sinning only makes your life more difficult.

 

[R Baker]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

God, in eternity past, chose to create man with original, but mutable, righteousness. He also decreed that man would rebel and lose that righteouness suffering the forwarned penalty of separation from Him
relationally. This "great gulf fixed" between the now sinful man and the Holy God could never, because of our depraved nature, be bridged from man to God being illustrated by the inability of man to perfectly keep the "Law" in thought, word, and deed. Because Adam was the federal head (representative of all his children) we inherit his sinful nature and the resulting curse. All his children are "by nature children of wrath"(Eph.2:3) "Therefore by the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." (Rom.3:20) The Law reflects the righteousness of God which cannot allow admittance of those who lack a peacefull, cordial, familial relationship; of those who do not possess an analogous character. Therefore man's only hope was that the bridge be crossed from the other direction i.e. from God to man. God deemed that He would send His only Son to take on human nature (sin excepted) so that He would be the second Adam, a new federal head who would be the representative of all His (Jesus) children. Jesus would not only fulfill the requirements of the active obedience of God's Law where the first Adam failed, but also fulfill the passive obedience of suffering the just penalty of God's wrath in place of all His children. So that it is through faith (not works-the keeping of the Law-that it might be by grace so that no one could boast.Rom.4:16; Eph.2:8-9) Man could now be restored to an even higher relationship with his God. We must not forget that God cannot simply overlook His eternal holiness or His eternal righteousnes or His eternal justice. They are as much His attributes as love, mercy and grace. We can catch a glimpse of the wonder of His wisdom of this "so great a salvation" in doing, Himself, what we could never do. And in His wisdom He saw that this was the best way that He would display His power and make His name known all to the glory of His grace. Jesus was man that He might be a sacrifice and He was God that He might be the remedy.

 

[Theofane]

How could Christian Universalism possibly withstand all these excellent statements of scriptural fact?

 

[Incariol]

Hi all,

I know that this is perhaps a silly question to some, but it is something I have trouble answering for myself and others. I should point out that I do believe in Jesus. However, sometimes I wonder why Jesus had to die. I mean, why couldn't God just forgive people straight away? Why couldn't he just give grace to everyone without Jesus having to die? I know that God is just, but I need an answer more in depth than that.

Also, if God always knew that Jesus was going to come to earth and die for us, why did he give us the laws to follow (if they knew that we would fail at that and need Jesus)? I know that there is a passage in Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the tresass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.

Can anyone help explain this, and help explain the verse. Were the laws just to highlight our need for Jesus?

Thanks in advance

He had to die in order to sanctify the entire human life. Also, his death on the cross was an attack, in dying he descended into Hades and, as the hymn says, "[trampled] down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life".

 

[Harry3142]

devastated-

First, in order to get a background as to what actually happened during Christ's passion and death, you need to read Leviticus 16:1-22. It was that annual ceremony (The Day of Atonement) which Jesus Christ perfected in his own body. It is also this ceremony that is referred to as the imperfect sacrifice when compared to Jesus' own sacrifice in Hebrews 8:1-10:14.

Jesus' sacrifice was 'a happening within a happening'. The temple leaders, and especially Pontius Pilate (You didn't really think he was an 'innocent' caught up in their quarrel with Jesus, did you?), needed for Jesus to be killed. But God used their evil in order to attain his goal, namely, the closing of the chasm between his requirements and our utter failure to meet those requirements.

And Jesus knew exactly what he was here among us in order to accomplish. In John 10:14-18, Jesus told his disciples that he would be laying down his life, only to take it up again. And that is exactly what he did, in spite of those 'hooked' on naturalism trying to explain his death as if it were the death of just another human being.

His shedding of his blood cleansed all of their sins. But now that he had accomplished that, he still had another task to perform, namely, the conquering of death itself. And in order to conquer death, he had to go through death and emerge victorious on the other side.

That's why the centurion who witnessed the death of Christ was so shaken by it that he dclared him to have been a righteous man (Mark 15:38-39). It's also why Pontius Pilate was so surprised to hear that Jesus was already dead that he required the centurion to confirm it (Mark 15:42-45). It is believed that since Jesus' cross was in the middle, its vertical upright had a suppedaneum (foot rest) attached to it that would prevent death through asphyxia or heart failure, the two quickest forms of death for those crucified. Instead, Jesus should have lived for days while the heat of the day and the cold of the night, as well as hunger and thirst, very slowly killed him.

But instead Jesus had declared that his work was done, and then he left. The centurion was probably the first to realize what had actually happened, and knew then-and-there that something had gone terribly wrong insofar as they were concerned. Instead of their crucifying a criminal, they had crucified a righteous man.

On the first day of the week Jesus' conquering of death itself was revealed to the apostles, the women, and other disciples. Within only a few months this victory became known to all those who were in that region of the world, and within a few years it was known to the entire roman empire. Jesus had died only to strip death of its victory.

 

[AMR]

1. God exists. (Gen. 1:1)
2. God is infinite. (Psalm 90:2, 147:5; Jer. 23:24)
3. God is holy. (Isaiah 6:3; Rev. 4:8)
4. God is righteous. (Neh. 9:32-33; 1 Thess. 1:6)
5. Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.

6. Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of what He is. (Matt. 12:34)

7. God spoke the Law. (Ex. 20:1-17)

8. Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and Good. (Rom. 7:12)

9. Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite and His wrath against sin is infinite, thus, the payment made by the reprobate must be unending.

10. Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored. (Amos 2:4; Rom. 4:15; Ex. 23:7; Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Rom. 2:5-6)

11. God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death. (Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23)

12. The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation. (Rom. 1:18; Matt. 25:46)

13. But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous character. (Gal. 2:16, 2:21)

14. But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh). (Rom. 8:3)

15. Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.

16. Jesus is God in flesh. (John 1:1, 1:14; Col. 2:9)

18. The substitute could not be an animal. (Heb. 10:4)

19. Neither could an angel be the substitute, for the substitute must take upon himself human nature. (Heb. 2:14)

20. No sinner could atone for his fellow sinners. (Psa. 49:7–8).

21. It was only God Himself who could be the exact, perfect and proper substitute to atone for the sins of His people, and completely satisfy the vindication of His justice and righteousness, and thus render man acceptable in His sight.

22. Jesus was also a man under the Law. (1 Tim. 2:5; Gal. 4:5-6)

23. Since then the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus, Himself, likewise partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.

24. Therefore, he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb. 2:14–17)

25. Jesus Christ alone could be the fitting or proper high priest. (Heb. 7:26)

26. The sinlessness of the substitute is necessary. (2 Cor. 5:21)

27. Therefore, Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins unto death in His body on the cross, which revealed the specific penalty required for sin, thus fulfilling the Law. (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Rom. 3:24–26; Rom. 8:3-4)

28. The gift is valued according to the altar on which it is presented. Christ offered Himself through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14), that is to say, He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature. His divine nature being eternal, His offering possesses an eternal quality. Hence, although Christ did not sacrifice Himself eternally, He nevertheless offered an eternal sacrifice to satisfy divine justice.

29. Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place. (Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:13; Eph. 5:2)

30. Finally, it follows from the above that a person must believe and claim Christ’s atoning sacrifice as their own in order to be declared righteous before God. Such a true believer will be known from their works.

 

[JustAsIam77]

My brother in Christ, excellent post. Just wondering though, how many works will a true believer need to perform in order to be known by their works?

 

[Myshkin99]

Y'know...this is all nothing more than hand-waving.

God, who created the universe, the laws of physics, morality, and justice, doesn't have to do anything. The universe does not dictate reality to God. God created reality.

Jesus didn't have to die for our sins. God chose to do it this way.

The judge analogy is the worst kind of hand-waving. God is not the judge. God is the law. God chose this sentence, for us and for Jesus. None of it had to be this way.

Y'all with all your cosmic jurisprudence and meta-ethics make it sound like God is not sovereign over His creation...

 

[JustAsIam77]

Y'know...this is all nothing more than hand-waving.

God, who created the universe, the laws of physics, morality, and justice, doesn't have to do anything. The universe does not dictate reality to God. God created reality.

Jesus didn't have to die for our sins. God chose to do it this way.

The judge analogy is the worst kind of hand-waving. God is not the judge. God is the law. God chose this sentence, for us and for Jesus. None of it had to be this way.

Y'all with all your cosmic jurisprudence and meta-ethics make it sound like God is not sovereign over His creation...

It all had to be this way, why? Because God planned it this way therefore Christ had to die to atone for sin, if you have a problem with the way God has predestined all things take it up with Him.

 

[Myshkin99]

It all had to be this way, why? Because God planned it this way therefore Christ had to die to atone for sin, if you have a problem with the way God has predestined all things take it up with Him.

Not at all. But it didn't have to be this way in some grand "this-is-the-way-the-universe-works" way. God chose this. God decided that Jesus would die.

If it was good enough for Him, it's more than good enough for me.

 

[JustAsIam77]

If you are saying God is sovereign then I agree.

 

[billybtennessee]

'Why' can lead us off into all manner of trails and theories. We do not understand all the 'whys' concerning the nature of man, and we sure aren't gonna understand all of God's. God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to redeem us from sin, His blood sacrifice is the means to come to the Father.

I believe it shows how much God loves His creation. The gospel of Jesus Christ is good news. Offers much hope. He paid a price we can't. We see both how much God loves us, as sinners, and we see how much God hates sin. We see how corrupt sin is, and how condemned sinners are, without Christ. This puts every single person on earth into the same condition, for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

God chose to save every one of us the same way, through Jesus Christ. We have no reason to boast, at all, apart from Jesus Christ. As Paul wrote, "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgements and His ways past finding out!" Rom.11:33.

God wants us to believe in His Son Jesus Christ, trust Him, and follow Him in obedience and service, as disciples of Jesus Christ. No theology we can invent will ever change that. In answer to the Title of the thread, this was purposed before creation began, the mystery that was hidden. Praise God. God Bless.