Why did Jesus have to Ascend for the Holy Spirit to Come?

[AnticipateHisComing]

I have been puzzled for a while about the verse in John.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.


So why did Jesus have to return to heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to be sent?


The only possible idea I have is that it is related to what Jesus says the Holy Spirit speaks.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John also calls Jesus the Word. Is this a hint that Jesus is the author of scripture? While the Holy Spirit inspires the Bible writers with words to write, John says it is the Son of God that tells the Holy Spirit what to say.

So my guess is that Jesus had to return to his glorified state before the Holy Spirit was "released" on the world for only in his glorified state could the Son of God direct the Holy Spirit.


I am not sure on this but I have no other ideas. Anyone else have an explanation?

 

[Gottservant]

Jesus had to ascend into Heaven...

...because the cross put the Holy Spirit in Hell.

And without ascending, He would not ascend.

 

[yogosans14]

Jesus had to ascend into Heaven...

...because the cross put the Holy Spirit in Hell.

And without ascending, He would not ascend.

The Holy Spirit went to Hell?where can I find that in scripture?

 

[sdowney717]

It is more the idea Christ was going back to Glory with the Father.
And so as to not leave us orphaned because He had departed the earth, so that we would not be alone, He sent the Holy Spirit to be with us and guide us into all truth.
This way everyone all over the earth could receive the Holy Spirit within them, not just be in one spot on the earth with Christ physically present.

Doing this equalizes access to Christ for all believers all over the earth, instead of just a few in one place. For those who are of the New Covenant, the promise is that all will know God from least to greatest not just a select few. And also God says those who believe and have not seen Christ are blessed.

Heb 8

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[c]

 

[Gottservant]

The Holy Spirit went to Hell?where can I find that in scripture?

Jesus went to Hell (NT)

The Holy Spirit will bring all things to remembrance (gospel of John)

Therefore the Holy Spirit went to Hell, when Jesus did (inspiration of the Holy Spirit - spoken of in the NT letters I think).

How else can you bring all things to remembrance, unless you have actually been there?

 

[Optimax]

I have been puzzled for a while about the verse in John.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.


So why did Jesus have to return to heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to be sent?


The only possible idea I have is that it is related to what Jesus says the Holy Spirit speaks.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John also calls Jesus the Word. Is this a hint that Jesus is the author of scripture? While the Holy Spirit inspires the Bible writers with words to write, John says it is the Son of God that tells the Holy Spirit what to say.

So my guess is that Jesus had to return to his glorified state before the Holy Spirit was "released" on the world for only in his glorified state could the Son of God direct the Holy Spirit.


I am not sure on this but I have no other ideas. Anyone else have an explanation?

While Jesus was on the earth He could personally speak/minister to only one person at a time.

When the Holy Spirit came He dwells in every saved/born again (Rom 10:9) person.

Therefore He can speak to, minister to, guide, teach, etc. all at the same time.

Plus convict ever person that is not saved/born again (Rom 10:9) of their need for Jesus at the same time.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Kudos to the above post!

Just think, the Father gets to see the Spirit of His only begotten Son birthed within each person who receives Him, and sees His only begotten Son grow up within each and every believer.

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

 

[yogosans14]

Jesus went to Hell (NT)

The Holy Spirit will bring all things to remembrance (gospel of John)

Therefore the Holy Spirit went to Hell, when Jesus did (inspiration of the Holy Spirit - spoken of in the NT letters I think).

How else can you bring all things to remembrance, unless you have actually been there?

I'll stick with the Bible and not human assumptions.

 

[Gottservant]

I'll stick with the Bible and not human assumptions.

You insult Christ if you imply He should not have been human.

Sorry.

 

[yogosans14]

That's not what I implied at all. You are saying the Holy Spirit went to Hell with 0 biblical basis.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

While Jesus was on the earth He could personally speak/minister to only one person at a time.

When the Holy Spirit came He dwells in every saved/born again (Rom 10:9) person.

Therefore He can speak to, minister to, guide, teach, etc. all at the same time.

Plus convict ever person that is not saved/born again (Rom 10:9) of their need for Jesus at the same time.

These are certainly true observations of what happened after Pentecost. It does not answer my question of why the Holy Spirit could not be poured out before Jesus ascended to heaven. Can't the Holy Spirit that proceeds from the Father deliver a message without Jesus being in heaven?

Jesus is thought to not have baptized any with water. Jesus is said to baptize with the Holy Spirit, but this did not happen until he was in heaven. Why could this not happen while he was preaching on earth of the new covenant? Why couldn't the Holy Spirit be poured out while Jesus was on earth?

Maybe the fact that the Son of God is mediator is also part of the answer.

 

[Devorim]

He had to go to where the Holiest Place (Holy of Holies) is -- the one not built with hands -- in order to do His work as High Priest, continually interceding for us.

Hebrews 3:1
Hebrews 4:14
Hebrews 6:20
Hebrews 9:8

 

[Gottservant]

That's not what I implied at all. You are saying the Holy Spirit went to Hell with 0 biblical basis.

I gave you two quotes and spiritual discernment, what is your problem?

Because it doesn't fit with dogma you're familiar with, you just light a match to the next thing you say to me.

I get the feeling from your words that the chances you will fulfil the new commandment based on the simple fact that I am talking to you at all, are practically nil.

maybe you should pray about that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Christ's ascension means His enthronement at the right hand of the Father, and with that comes the promise of the Spirit to empower the Church to be the Church.

It's not like the Third Person of the Trinity wasn't around previously, but what happened on Pentecost was an inauguration of the Church into its mission as the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

I have been puzzled for a while about the verse in John.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.


So why did Jesus have to return to heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to be sent?

I think it's more a matter of things being in the prearranged order--Christ atones for sin, he ascends to the Father, the Holy Spirit leads Christ's church, etc. Everything in order. In that sense, Jesus had to do X and Y and then ascend to the Father and then the Holy Spirit would assume the control over other matters in human history.

It's a mistake, IOW, to read "unless I go, the Advocate will not come" as referring to something that's literally impossible without something else.

John also calls Jesus the Word. Is this a hint that Jesus is the author of scripture?

No. That's not the meaning of the term there.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Christ's ascension means His enthronement at the right hand of the Father, and with that comes the promise of the Spirit to empower the Church to be the Church.

It's not like the Third Person of the Trinity wasn't around previously, but what happened on Pentecost was an inauguration of the Church into its mission as the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

Again this is a nice history lesson, but not an answer to my question. It seems to me that when Jesus was preaching to thousands, that would have been a nice time for the Holy Spirit to be "poured out". Jesus is said to be the head of the church. Why no Pentecost inauguration while he was on earth?

Why did the out pouring have to wait till Jesus returned to heaven? That is the OP question, with no answers so far.

 

[Albion]

Again this is a nice history lesson, but not an answer to my question. It seems to me that when Jesus was preaching to thousands, that would have been a nice time for the Holy Spirit to be "poured out". Jesus is said to be the head of the church. Why no Pentecost inauguration while he was on earth?

Why did the out pouring have to wait till Jesus returned to heaven? That is the OP question, with no answers so far.

Not the answer you wanted to hear, I think you mean.

So, why don't you do us the courtesy of letting us in on what that might be? It could save time.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I think it's more a matter of things being in the prearranged order--Christ atones for sin, he ascends to the Father, the Holy Spirit leads Christ's church, etc. Everything in order. In that sense, Jesus had to do X and Y and then ascend to the Father and then the Holy Spirit would assume the control over other matters in human history.

It's a mistake, IOW, to read "unless I go, the Advocate will not come" as referring to something that's literally impossible without something else.

Scripture is quite clear in the message that Jesus had to return to heaven for the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit was in people before this to some "limited" degree.

No. That's not the meaning of the term there.

The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Bible is the word of God. Now I am not saying that the Bible is God, but it is interesting that John used that name for the Son of God. The connotation I believe is to present an association between the Son of God and God's revealed word. This is also re-enforced by the prophecy that you will be taught by God, fulfilled with Jesus. It is also re-enforced by the Son of God telling the Holy Spirit what to say.

Now these were just ideas by me. What is your explanation for John using Word for a name for the Son of God? Note that the Son of God has many names: Christ, Messiah, good shepherd, ... they all are used to teach us the many different ways that he is the head of the church.

 

[Albion]

Scripture is quite clear in the message that Jesus had to return to heaven for the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit was in people before this to some "limited" degree.


The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Bible is the word of God.

As I said (but admittedly did not elaborate on) the use of the term "Word" there does not mean the written revelation--or refer to the author of it--that we call the Bible. Look up "Logos" and, in the meantime, read the whole passage carefully and see that it does not go on to describe Christ as the writer of the Bible but puts it in quite a different context. Like many other words we have in the English language, this one has a variety of meanings and they are not interchangeable.

So that's that issue. As for the first one you presented to us--why did Jesus "have to" ascend before the Holy Spirit could come, it seems to me that ViaCrucis and I both gave a decent explanation and that the two were rather similar, although put to you in somewhat different ways.

There is an order to things in God's universe, and we mortals are time-oriented. Sure, God could have done everything that he's done redeeming mankind, and all of that, by merely snapping his fingers (we might say), but we comprehend things in an order, and that is the order of things that we see played out by the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension, the Coming of the Holy Ghost, etc. etc.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Again this is a nice history lesson, but not an answer to my question. It seems to me that when Jesus was preaching to thousands, that would have been a nice time for the Holy Spirit to be "poured out". Jesus is said to be the head of the church. Why no Pentecost inauguration while he was on earth?

Why did the out pouring have to wait till Jesus returned to heaven? That is the OP question, with no answers so far.

For one, that is the order that God had chosen it to be. For another the entirety of Christ's mission is involved from His conception and birth, all the way to His death, resurrection, and ascension. It is in His ascension that He is seated at the right hand of the Father having all authority and all things subject to Him. He is ascended to take up His place as King, to reign on that throne which was promised long ago by the prophets, and so He reigns as King Messiah, the Son of David, the one whom David calls "Lord":

"A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!'" - Psalm 110:1-2

Which is as St. Peter says in his sermon on Pentecost,

"Fellow Israelites, I may say to you confidently of our ancestor David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Since he was a prophet, he knew that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would put one of his descendents on his throne. Foreseeing this, David spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, saying, 'He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh experience decay.' This Jesus God raised up, and of that all of us are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he poured out this that you both see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."' Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified." - Acts 2:29-36

Christ has ascended to take His throne as Lord and Messiah to reign and to rule until that time all things are wholly subject to Him, St. Paul saying in 1 Corinthians 15, "the last enemy being death". And it is by His royal power and authority that He has established His Church to go about the business of the Kingdom and preaching the Gospel of that Kingdom until He comes again. It is on this account that the Spirit is poured out on Pentecost, as inauguration of the Church out into the world as that which proclaims the Gospel of God's kingdom until Christ comes, delivers all things to the Father, and all shall be made new.

-CryptoLutheran