Why did God make Gospel so confusing?

[BigV]

Easy Believism link

There is a thread that only Christians can respond to, and I've linked to it above, and it was at the top of the page the morning of Jan 1, 2020.

So, as Christians, you have your work cut out for you even after you have convinced an atheist that a Christian God exists. You now have to make sure that atheist understand the Gospel, but there is a debate even among Christians as to what that Gospel is.

 

[miamited]

Hi bigv,

I'll address your challenge. However, I'll need some more information from you. Let's first be clear that it isn't my responsibility to make any atheist understand the gospel. According to the Scriptures, that's the job of the Holy Spirit. All we do is proclaim it. Anyone believing it is between them and God.

But. to address your question in the title, what exactly is it that you find so confusing concerning the gospel and what exactly is the 'debate among christians as to what the gospel is'?

I think we need some basic understanding of the issues that you bring up before we can have any meaningful discussion.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[BigV]

I think we need some basic understanding of the issues that you bring up before we can have any meaningful discussion.

Hello Ted, did you see the link I posted in the OP with a title "Easy Believism link"? It's a link to a Christianforums Christians only section where one Christian tries to convince fellow Christians that the Gospel message as taught in the Church is not correct.

Why do you think the Gospel message is not clearly understood by all Christians?

 

[public hermit]

Oh yes, I saw that thread, too. It's one of those, "We're the real Christians and the rest of y'all are totally lost" threads. I feel you BigV, I've been told on this site that I'm Godless and a deciever. Who needs atheists railing against you when you can just hang out with Christians? Thankfully, the gospel is simple. Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again three days later. You don't have to believe it, but it's not that confusing. 1 Corinthians 15: 3-4. I wish I could say more, but I won't lest I give the impression that it's more complicated than it is.

 

[BigV]

Oh yes, I saw that thread, too. It's one of those, "We're the real Christians and the rest of y'all are totally lost" threads. I feel you BigV, I've been told on this site that I'm Godless and a deciever. Who needs atheists railing against you when you can just hang out with Christians? Thankfully, the gospel is simple. Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again three days later. You don't have to believe it, but it's not that confusing. 1 Corinthians 15: 3-4. I wish I could say more, but I won't lest I give the impression that it's more complicated than it is.

Thanks for your post. You don't have to feel for me as it's not a struggle for me anymore, being that I'm an Atheist.

I wanted to point out that there are internal issues in the Christian doctrines that are confusing as heck even for the fellow Christians. Every side has their Bible verses to support their conflicting views on the Gospel.

 

[Silmarien]

Easy Believism link

There is a thread that only Christians can respond to, and I've linked to it above, and it was at the top of the page the morning of Jan 1, 2020.

So, as Christians, you have your work cut out for you even after you have convinced an atheist that a Christian God exists. You now have to make sure that atheist understand the Gospel, but there is a debate even among Christians as to what that Gospel is.

I wouldn't say that any layperson has the responsibility to make a former atheist understand the Gospel properly. It's the ex-atheist's reponsibility to engage with all of the theology and scholarship that's out there and come to their own conclusions. That's part of the journey, and I'm very uncomfortable when more mature Christians set themselves up as arbiters of truth.

I don't think it's that difficult to understand Christianity, as long as you're relying upon genuine authority figures rather than people fighting on a forum. I relied largely on Orthodox and then Catholic theology, alongside Protestant biblical scholarship, particularly concerning the actual 1st century Jewish context. My first priest also fit pretty well in the scholar-priest category, which was very beneficial.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Easy Believism link

There is a thread that only Christians can respond to, and I've linked to it above, and it was at the top of the page the morning of Jan 1, 2020.

So, as Christians, you have your work cut out for you even after you have convinced an atheist that a Christian God exists. You now have to make sure that atheist understand the Gospel, but there is a debate even among Christians as to what that Gospel is.

Oh, I don't worry very much about all of that, which is EXACTLY one of the points I attempt to get at in the apologetics thread I already directed you to not so long ago (if I remember rightly in having done so, that is). But just in case my memory is failing me, here is a link to it yet once again ...

“Journey Epistemology”: Pro or Con within Christian Apologetics?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Easy Believism link

There is a thread that only Christians can respond to, and I've linked to it above, and it was at the top of the page the morning of Jan 1, 2020.

So, as Christians, you have your work cut out for you even after you have convinced an atheist that a Christian God exists. You now have to make sure that atheist understand the Gospel, but there is a debate even among Christians as to what that Gospel is.

People read other books and adduce different interpretations from each other all the time. The Bible isn't really unique in that respect.

Speaking as a Catholic, I regard the multitude of different interpretations as a testament to the need for the Magisterium.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Easy Believism link

There is a thread that only Christians can respond to, and I've linked to it above, and it was at the top of the page the morning of Jan 1, 2020.

So, as Christians, you have your work cut out for you even after you have convinced an atheist that a Christian God exists. You now have to make sure that atheist understand the Gospel, but there is a debate even among Christians as to what that Gospel is.

Not to sound arrogant, but according to Scripture the unbeliever is unable to understand the Gospel. It is foolishness to him.

I could perhaps clearly lay out the mechanics of it, but they would be pretty much meaningless to you.

I will say this, though. What you assume to be a problem for the Christian (since they can't even agree with each other about it) is no more of a problem than one of them trying to lay it out for you.

Most so-called Christians are not born again, and so don't understand, either. They use platitudes in common "Christian" use, as more worthy of attention that the Scriptures themselves.

On top of that, many who have been born again have been from the start indoctrinated with falsehoods, worldviews and philosophies that are hard to root out. The same is true for the atheist.

It is what it is.


I'm curious if your question is rhetorical.

 

[Mathetes66]

Why did God make Gospel so confusing?

He didn't! Men made it confusing.

I Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...as in all the congregations of the saints...

As another poster said, the gospel message is simple:

I Corinthians 15:8 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you THE gospel which I PREACHED TO YOU, which also YOU RECEIVED & in which YOU STAND, by which also YOU ARE SAVED, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3For I delivered to you AS OF FIRST IMPORTANCE--that which I also received--that Christ died for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES & that He was buried & that He rose again the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRITURES. And that HE WAS SEEN by Cephas, then by the twelve.

6After that He was seen by over 500 brethren AT ONCE, of whom the greater part REMAIN to the present, but some have fallen asleep {died}. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

Romans 10:8-13,17 The Word is near you; it is in your mouth & in your heart,” that is, the Word of faith we are proclaiming:

that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” & believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with your heart you believe & are justified & with your mouth you confess & are saved. It is just as THE SCRIPTURE SAYS says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew & Gentile: The same Lord is Lord of all & gives richly to all who call on Him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Consequently, faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God.

I Cor 16:14,15 The Lord OPENED HER HEART TO RESPOND TO PAUL'S MESSAGE. 15And when she (Lydia) & her household had been baptized, she urged us, “If you consider me a believer in the Lord, come & stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.

Acts 16:27-34 When the jailer woke up & saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword & was about to kill himself, presuming that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul called out in a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself! We are all here!”

29Calling for lights, the jailer rushed in & fell trembling before Paul & Silas. Then he brought them out & asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus & you will be saved, you & your household.”

32Then Paul & Silas spoke the WORD OF THE LORD TO HIM & to everyone in his house. At that hour of the night, the jailer took them & washed their wounds. And without delay, he & all his household were baptized. Then he brought them into his home & set a meal before them. So he & all his household REJOICED THAT THEY HAD COME TO BELIEVE IN GOD.

The Corinthians had no problem believing the simple gospel message & Word of the Lord God. Lydia when she understood the gospel message, had no problem believing & her household. The Gentile Roman jailer & his family had no problem upon hearing the Word of the Lord gospel message.

God made the message simple, so that even a small child might believe. However, men make it complicated & bring confusion into the picture. Again the issue isn't with God & the simple gospel message, it is with men throwing monkey wrenches into the works.

Jesus pointed this out concerning the hypocritical Pharisees & scribes in Matthew 23:

“But woe to you, scribes & Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

“Woe to you, scribes & Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land & sea to win one proselyte & when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."

 

[BigV]

I don't think it's that difficult to understand Christianity, as long as you're relying upon genuine authority figures rather than people fighting on a forum.

VS

Not to sound arrogant, but according to Scripture the unbeliever is unable to understand the Gospel. It is foolishness to him.

I could perhaps clearly lay out the mechanics of it, but they would be pretty much meaningless to you.

I will say this, though. What you assume to be a problem for the Christian (since they can't even agree with each other about it) is no more of a problem than one of them trying to lay it out for you.

Most so-called Christians are not born again, and so don't understand, either. They use platitudes in common "Christian" use, as more worthy of attention that the Scriptures themselves.

On top of that, many who have been born again have been from the start indoctrinated with falsehoods, worldviews and philosophies that are hard to root out. The same is true for the atheist.

It is what it is.

@Silmarien, I think you can't be sure you are a true Christian if @Mark Quayle understanding of Christianity is correct.

From my past experience, I think Mark properly conveys Christianity as interpreted by Reformed theologians.

 

[BigV]

God made the message simple, so that even a small child might believe.

So you claim, but it's not very clear.

For example,

Matthew 25:31-46 teaches that eternal life is obtained by works.

John 5:28-29 teaches that those who have done good will rise to life (salvation by good works again).

And there are other passages like that. On the other hand, there are passages you've cited to and Christians themselves debate the meaning of these until this day.

 

[Silmarien]

VS



@Silmarien, I think you can't be sure you are a true Christian if @Mark Quayle understanding of Christianity is correct.

From my past experience, I think Mark properly conveys Christianity as interpreted by Reformed theologians.

Oh, I would consider Calvin a genuine reference point and someone who ought to be taken seriously, so Christians should consider the questions that he and the other Reformers raised, in conjunction with the rest of the Christian tradition, and decide for themselves whether or not they were in error.

 

[miamited]

Hello Ted, did you see the link I posted in the OP with a title "Easy Believism link"? It's a link to a Christianforums Christians only section where one Christian tries to convince fellow Christians that the Gospel message as taught in the Church is not correct.

Why do you think the Gospel message is not clearly understood by all Christians?

Hi bigv,

I'm not the one saying that the gospel message is not clearly understood. That's your position.

I imagine that you mean to ask me why I think that the gospel message 'is' clearly understood by christians. So, I'll provide an answer for that. If I'm mistaken as to your intentions, I'll let you correct me.

In Peter's letter to the believers he speaks of those who are among us but are not a part of us. He speaks of those who are wolves in sheep's clothing. He also speaks of those who seem to have a hard time discerning the truth of Paul's writings and may distort their teachings. So let me first say, not all 'christians', from what I'm reading in the Scriptures, are born again believers. I think that Jesus also makes this point when he discusses with his disciples about the day of his Father's judgment and makes the claim that not all those who say to him, "Lord, Lord", will be saved. He tells them that there's going to be a group, which he describes as 'many', that will lay claim to having done great miracles and mighty wonders, in his name. I'm confident that group of people will have been thought of as christians when living on the earth. After all, how many buddhists, muslims, hindis and atheists do you personally know who are claiming to have done great things in the 'name of Jesus'? If you can't name any among your personal relationships, then widen your search to the entire world. How many have you ever read of or heard of that are doing things in the name of Jesus, but don't identify themselves as 'christians'. The explanation that Jesus gives of these people claiming to have done great things in his name, pretty well limits this group of people to christians.

So yes, there can certainly be 'christians' among us who don't understand all that God teaches, but as relates to the gospel, I think pretty much all christians are in agreement as to what that is. It is the belief that God sent His Son into the world. That His Son died in our place for our sin. That God did raise His Son, Jesus, to life again after three days in a tomb. That through belief, (and this is where things can get sticky), in the atoning death of Jesus for our sin, we can have eternal life with God.

I don't think that among christians, you will find any disagreement that God sent His Son into the world, and that His Son is Jesus. I don't think you'll find much, if any, disagreement among christians that Jesus did take upon himself the punishment of our sins and died in our place, as that punishment. I don't think you'll find among christians, much if any, disagreement that God did raise Jesus from the dead. I don't think you'll find much disagreement among christians that there is a requisite of belief in that atoning death for sin, that completes God's work of our salvation.

However, what I've found, is that it is that word 'belief or believe' that causes many to stumble. That's what your link is about. Easy 'believism'. That true belief must be apparent in some change in a person's life from the day in which they knew nothing or very little about God, to the day that they made their claim of belief in Jesus as God's Savior of mankind. This, I believe, is what Jesus referred to as 'being born again'. We are literally born with a new spirit that changes how we live our lives on the outside. A new spirit that changes our attitude and actions from what they were before we were born with the Spirit of God, to how we now see and understand a worldview that is informed 'by' the Spirit of God.

Jesus said that the Spirit of God would convict us of both sin and righteousness. So, it is only after we have the Spirit of God living in us, what Paul describes as God's deposit within us that we will be saved, that we begin to understand things of this realm from God's perspective.

Things like evolution. The world says that all creatures, even man, evolved over billions or trillions of years to be what we see before our eyes today. God's word says that isn't the truth of how we got to be standing here on January 1, 2020. The Spirit of God will confirm that for us, if we allow him to guide and teach us the things of God.

Things like the parting of a sea. The world will teach us that it just isn't possible, that a sea could just split, and two walls of water stand on either side as a sentinel, while a phalanx of some 2-3 thousand people just walked through the chasm thus created. But if we are indwelled with the Spirit of God, then, according to Jesus, he will guide us into all truth. That Spirit will confirm in our spirit that it happened just as God has told us that it did.

Now, some such as yourself, might make the claim that rather than being born again, we've just swallowed the deception of a book written by men. Not any different from those who do follow theMmuslim faith or the Hindu or Buddhist faith. However, I believe that careful study of the Scriptures will prove to any reasonable mind that the Scriptures themselves are not like any of those other sacred writings. This lies mainly in the plethora of prophecies found in the Scriptures and the fulfillment thereof.

If you're interested in more on that, let me know. As for your question concerning the understanding of the gospel among christians, I think this post is complete.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[2PhiloVoid]

VS



@Silmarien, I think you can't be sure you are a true Christian if @Mark Quayle understanding of Christianity is correct.

From my past experience, I think Mark properly conveys Christianity as interpreted by Reformed theologians.

Fortunately, no one here gets to say that either I OR Mark Quayle is "correct" in either of our respective forms of Christian belief.

However, I do agree with Mark that the Holy Spirit HAS to have, at the very least, some formative role to play in the development of any person's journey toward and through Jesus Christ.

I think what you're mistankingly doing here is insisting that we all overlook, maybe even ignore, those concepts which all bona-fide Christians have in common (like the Trinity? Like the central need for the Bible? The belief that Jesus rose again? etc., etc., etc.)

You don't get to come here and insist we all throw the baby out with the bath water just because you (and many of the rest of us) realize that the bath water is to some degree ............... dirtied. To do so would be irrational.

 

[Mathetes66]

So you claim, but it's not very clear. For example,

Matthew 25:31-46 teaches that eternal life is obtained by works.

John 5:28-29 teaches that those who have done good will rise to life (salvation by good works again).

Perhaps you have forgotten, but I answered these for you in detail, in the other thread, showing it wasn't being saved by "good" works.

You being an atheist does not understand the gospel message. To you it is is not clear. As an atheist, you cannot please God. It is impossible to do so.

Hebrew 11:3,6 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He EXISTS & that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.


The only 'good' works someone can do are the ones done in Christ.

There was a rich young ruler who came & asked Jesus how he could obtain eternal life. He called Jesus, good teacher. He only saw Jesus as a Jewish human being only, rather than both God & man.

So Jesus told him NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD.

So no matter what the young ruler did, it was not good enough on his own efforts, to be made perfect & righteous before God. He was boasting.

Only God is good & can do good. Without faith in Christ, we cannot do 'good' works as spiritually born again Christians, we can't save ourselves by our own works. They are not 'good enough.'

Jesus then tried another way to bring humility to the young man by saying you must keep all the commandments, which no one can do. The young ruler asked Jesus which ones? Jesus mentioned all but the commandment about COVETING, which Jesus knew was this young man's sole key issue. You cannot serve God & mammon (money/possessions); you can't serve two Masters.

Matthew 6:19,20,22 Jesus: “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths & vermin destroy & where thieves break in & steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths & vermin do not destroy & where thieves do not break in &steal. For where your treasure is, there your HEART will be also.

“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one & love the other, or you will be devoted to the one & despise the other. You cannot serve both God & money.

So the rich ruler said he had kept all these from his youth up. But--he did not stop there.

Matthew 19:20 “All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I STILL LACK?”

Keeping all these commandments from his youth up, doing all those supposed good works wasn't enough? Really? Even the rich young ruler KNEW doing those didn't give him eternal life. He didn't have it despite all that. Thus the question was vital & serious. He couldn't figure it out.

What everyone said would give him eternal life didn't do it. He still fell short. He still lacked the true ingredient to possess eternal life: trust in the true Master & Lord, Jesus Christ & turn from his present master of his life: mammon & riches.

So Jesus said he lacked just one thing, the very thing that kept him from possessing eternal life: repent of his covetousness & put his trust in following Christ. Jesus told him he must get rid of the 'other' Master, if he was to receive God's eternal life & put his trust (for his whole life) in the true Lord & Master, Jesus Christ.

Mark 10:21,21 Jesus looked at him, loved him & said to him, “There is one thing you still lack: Go, sell everything you own & give to the poor & you will have treasure in heaven. Then come & be My follower."

The apostle James states that one can keep all the commandments & yet if they break just one, they are as guilty as breaking all of them. Breaking just one commandment all your life makes one unrighteous, guilty of being a lawbreaker & one falls short of the glory of God. And to sin even once is to die spiritually & be separate from God & His eternal life.

That is why the gospel message is simple: repent, change your mind & turn from going your own way & one's dead works & spiritual death in sin--& turn to the LORD & Master Jesus Christ & entrust your life to Him & follow Him in this life. God will provide for every need we may have.

When you mentioned, John 5:28,29 you pulled this out of the context of the passage, isolating it. You missed what Jesus said prior to that!

Matthew 5:24,25 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears My word & BELIEVES Him who sent Me HAS (POSSESSES) ETERNAL LIFE. He will NOT be judged but has CROSSED OVER from death INTO life. Truly, Truly (literally Amen, Amen) I tell you, a time is coming & HAS NOW COME when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God & those who hear will live.

The time had already come when Jesus was speaking then--when people hearing the gospel message & believing already possessed eternal life! They had crossed over from being spiritually dead & had entered into eternal life.

When one gets to vss 28,29, those rising from the dead are IN CHRIST, not apart from Him. He already gave them eternal life back when they first believed. In Christ alone can one do that is good because it is Christ working in & through them that produces good works because ONLY GOD IS GOOD. So what He does through us, by His grace & power, is good because God is doing it in & through us.

What the rest did APART FROM CHRIST is evil, done in their own selfish efforts & works, trusting in themselves to save themselves & boast before God--apart from Him. They have rejected the gospel message, which COULD set them free to do good works IN CHRIST & His goodness & power working through us.

Romans 3:5ff But if our unrighteousness highlights the righteousness of God, what shall we say? if my falsehood accentuates God’s truthfulness, to the increase of His glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?

What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews & Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good,
not even one."

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced & the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore NO ONE will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law simply shows us knowledge of how sinful we are.

But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law & the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through FAITH IN Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is NO DISTINCTION because all have sinned & fall short of the glory of God; they are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 11:5,6 In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Galatians 3:1ff O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you & work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear & believe? So also, “Abraham believed God & it was credited to him as righteousness. If a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. But the Scripture pronounces all things confined under sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

Romans 4:2-10 If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7“Blessed are they whose lawless acts are forgiven,

whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man

whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”b 9Is this blessing only on the circumcised, or also on the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited as righteousness. 10In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Fortunately, no one here gets to say that either I OR Mark Quayle is "correct" in either of our respective forms of Christian belief.

However, I do agree with Mark that the Holy Spirit HAS to have, at the very least, some formative role to play in the development of any person's journey toward and through Jesus Christ.

I think what you're mistankingly doing here is insisting that we all overlook, maybe even ignore, those concepts which all bona-fide Christians have in common (like the Trinity? Like the central need for the Bible? The belief that Jesus rose again? etc., etc., etc.)

You don't get to come here and insist we all throw the baby out with the bath water just because you (and many of the rest of us) realize that the bath water is to some degree ............... dirtied. To do so would be irrational.

Agreed. Philo seems to think I am saying that if a person doesn't hold to my position on Soteriology he cannot be saved. None of us have the ability to stop God from doing whatever he pleases. If God wants to save someone, he will do so, regardless of the size of that person's brainpan or the intensity of chemical activity, state of alertness and comprehension.

More revealing is the fact that none of us is fully capable of comprehending what God has done. So it does not depend on our understanding what we are doing in giving ourselves to God.

 

[BigV]

Oh, I would consider Calvin a genuine reference point and someone who ought to be taken seriously, so Christians should consider the questions that he and the other Reformers raised, in conjunction with the rest of the Christian tradition, and decide for themselves whether or not they were in error.

Ok, but whose job is to make things clear to save people from what could possibly be a very bad eternity(!)? Why should it be my job to figure this out even when Calvin, Arminius, Luther, etc... have their disagreements and, as I pointed out in the OP, even Christians disagree about these things.

 

[BigV]

Perhaps you have forgotten, but I answered these for you in detail, in the other thread, showing it wasn't being saved by "good" works.

All due respect, reply =/= answer. The Bible clearly says that works decide eternal fate of people. And it also says people can be saved by faith, APART from works. Your 'answer' is as good anyone else's.

That is why the gospel message is simple: repent, change your mind & turn from going your own way & one's dead works & spiritual death in sin--& turn to the LORD & Master Jesus Christ & entrust your life to Him & follow Him in this life. God will provide for every need we may have.

It's a good thing salvation is by faith ALONE then, ain't it? I think you missed Baptism, unless, of course, it's assumed to be included in repentance.

 

[BigV]

I think what you're mistankingly doing here is insisting that we all overlook, maybe even ignore, those concepts which all bona-fide Christians have in common (like the Trinity? Like the central need for the Bible? The belief that Jesus rose again? etc., etc., etc.)

I think you would be amazed how little in common there actually is among Christians. And how many Christians consider others not "true" Christians and vice versa.

For example, many Protestants insist that Catholics are not true Christians. But, they block together against Atheists, and agree on the Bible, Trinity, etc..

You don't get to come here and insist we all throw the baby out with the bath water just because you (and many of the rest of us) realize that the bath water is to some degree ............... dirtied. To do so would be irrational.

You can believe whatever you want. I'm not insisting you change anything. By all means, double down on your beliefs.