I find this strange, places like Numbers 31 say how God told people to go kill others, not to mention the great flood. Why would I want to worship a god that did such things? And why did he do it?
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I find this strange, places like Numbers 31 say how God told people to go kill others, not to mention the great flood. Why would I want to worship a god that did such things? And why did he do it?
So much for love your enemies. And wasn't there rape involved in Numbers 31? And I know how people say, "Oh but thats OT". So God changed his mind?This is a great question. However, you will find the answer in Deuteronomy 20, and the Laws of Warfare. These laws state that Israel must declare peace to an enemy before going into battle. They are to stand before the gate of the city and declare peace. If they are allowed in, then, the residents of that city were given the same inheritance and blessings that God had given to Israel. If they kept the door shut, then war ensued.
The same is true in how God deals with His enemies. By virtue of our sin, we have all become enemies of God. So, God stands before the door and declares peace. If we allow Him in, we become sons and daughters to Him, and we are given a great inheritance. God will give to us all that He has. If we do not allow Him to enter, and continue to be His enemy, then, eventually, He will judge us and find us worthy of death. (Spiritual death)
Lisa
So much for love your enemies. And wasn't there rape involved in Numbers 31? And I know how people say, "Oh but thats OT". So God changed his mind?
I dont remember Jesus making exceptions to loving your enemies, and since there are people who go against God, why is he not waging wars right now? And to use such force to get his own way...isnt that terrorism?God loves His enemies. However, God is not JUST love, but is also JUST. Sin must have a penalty. God has provided a way for sin to be forgiven. That is sacrificial love for your enemies. However, if those enemies continue to make war against God, they give Him no choice but to finally end the war.
There was no rape involved at God's command. They took the women against the command of God.
Lisa
I dont remember Jesus making exceptions to loving your enemies, and since there are people who go against God, why is he not waging wars right now? And to use such force to get his own way...isnt that terrorism?
But what about free will?Can you love an enemy, but still have to determine that their actions of evil must stop?
Few but God could say that they loved Hitler. None would say that they loved what Hitler did. However, even if God is CAPABLE of loving Hitler, God also had to judge Him. Without repentance, and the exchange of Christ's sinlessness for our sin, we stand before a Holy God without excuse. Those who are in Christ stand before Holy God, and the blood that Christ shed on our behalf covers our sin.
Lisa
But what about free will?
But you said if we keep going against God, he will wage war.Freewill deals with one thing and one thing only. Do we serve God of our own free will or reject Him? Freewill is as great of gift to us as salvation. We have a choice to serve God, and even if we initally choose to reject God, He gives us a lifetime to change our minds. All the way up until our death, we have a choice. Even if we have lived completely evil lives, if a true repentance occurs seconds before death, God will forgive that person, and it will be as if that sin never occurred. This is the love of God.
Lisa
Because He has to sort people out (and He can kick butt!). When people try to ruin His plans for providing a way to redeem the world by fighting against the Jews, well, it's better that they die than they stop everyone from living in sin. If we look at the OT, bear in mind that this is a book written over a LONG period of time, it's not like He's stopping every five minutes and smiting someone. Only when needed.Why would I want to worship a god that did such things?
Isaiah 45:9 NIV
"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'He has no hands'?
Lets say Iran nukes Israel, God has failed? I dont remember God doing much to save the six million Jews in the Holocaust.Because He has to sort people out (and He can kick butt!). When people try to ruin His plans for providing a way to redeem the world by fighting against the Jews, well, it's better that they die than they stop everyone from living in sin. If we look at the OT, bear in mind that this is a book written over a LONG period of time, it's not like He's stopping every five minutes and smiting someone. Only when needed.
But you said if we keep going against God, he will wage war.
No loving your enemies?No, hon, I didn't say that. We are the ones who have declared war with God. God seeks to declare peace with us. If we do not accept that peace offer, then, yes, God will subdue His enemies.
Lisa
No loving your enemies?
What about forgiveness? Jesus told you to forgive people. Why does God not forgive those who did not accept Christ? Its like me saying, "I will forgive you only if you pay me a fine".I think you are confusing God's Justice with God's Love. He is not one or the other, but both at the same time. In order for God's justice to be satisfied, there must be a penalty for sin. In order for God's Love to be satisfied, God was willing to pay the penalty for sin Himself. That is indeed loving your enemies.
Lisa
What about forgiveness? Jesus told you to forgive people. Why does God not forgive those who did not accept Christ? Its like me saying, "I will forgive you only if you pay me a fine".
And are you saying God is a hypocrite? Because you cant love and destroy your enemies at the same time. Turning the other cheek?
Yes but what about forgiveness if we did not accept this offer?There is no fine to pay. It is a simple offer with a simple yes or no reply to it.
Lisa
Yes but what about forgiveness if we did not accept this offer?
So I should only forgive people if they have not done something really really bad?That is the only thing that will not be forgiven. If you reject Christ, that is unpardonable.
Lisa
So I should only forgive people if they have not done something really really bad?
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