Why did God create humans?

[Tone]

Within the context of this thread I have no idea.
OB

1 John 4
"8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him.10And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another."

That is where it comes from.

*He gave us life that we may give life.

 

[zippy2006]

All you've done here is shift the question back a couple of steps i.e.:

If humans are created as the steward/epitome of material creation then why was material creation created?
Why would God need humans to "share in Gods own life".​

Er, a basic problem here is that your question is ambiguous. If you ask why God created humans someone may justifiably answer that he needed someone to till the soil and tend the land. Apparently you would respond, "Aha! But you haven't answered the question of why God created the soil!" Right... but you didn't ask why God created the soil. You asked why God created humans.

Wherever this goes it appears to continually bump into the twin issues of God's motive and God's self sufficiency.

There is an argument we've seen around here quite a lot. It goes something like this:

1. If an agent acts it is to fulfill a need.
2. If an agent is in need then they are not self-sufficient.
3. Therefore, if God created then he is not self-sufficient.

This argument has very little to do with humans as opposed to just creation in general. Apparently this argument is what is behind your question in the OP?

 

[Sketcher]

So we can agree that God did not need humans?

Yes.

What does “God is love” mean?

I don't think anyone can really do justice to explaining it, but love describes God's character. The only quality he has that might be more preeminent than his love would be holiness - but if it is, he loves because he is holy, so much that John described him as love.

Earlier you said that God is fully self-sufficient within himself. If this is correct how can God have ‘wants’?

I don't presume to equate God's desires with human desires. When humans desire, most of the time it is because we lack something. With God, who is self-sufficient within himself, his desires must be born out of something else.

Why would God want to create ‘lesser beings’?

I used the term "lesser beings" for two reasons - first, anyone equal with God is a logical absurdity when we take into account how Christianity defines God. Hence, anyone he creates will inevitably be lesser than himself. Second, he is not a lonely god looking for an equal. He is self-sufficient within himself.

In what sense are humans ‘the image of God’

He gave us both souls and sapience, unlike the animals. There's probably more to it than that as well.

Why would God want something to love? Again-the self sufficiency issue.

He has perfect self-sufficiency within himself, so it's not out of a lack. Perhaps it is because of the abundance within him.

 

[ewq1938]

God wanted to be loved?

Yes and still does.

Pro_8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

 

[Occams Barber]

I don't think anyone can really do justice to explaining it, but love describes God's character. The only quality he has that might be more preeminent than his love would be holiness - but if it is, he loves because he is holy, so much that John described him as love.

Can I suggest that God is Love is a Christian poetic truism - one of many.

I don't presume to equate God's desires with human desires. When humans desire, most of the time it is because we lack something. With God, who is self-sufficient within himself, his desires must be born out of something else.

"Something else" is an awkward explanation. It seems to me that Christians constantly ascribe human characteristics (love, jealousy, anger, want etc) to their God and then vigorously deny that God has humanlike qualities. There is a lot of cake eating and cake keeping going on here.

I used the term "lesser beings" for two reasons - first, anyone equal with God is a logical absurdity when we take into account how Christianity defines God. Hence, anyone he creates will inevitably be lesser than himself. Second, he is not a lonely god looking for an equal. He is self-sufficient within himself.

The obvious question is "If he's self sufficient why create anything?"

He gave us both souls and sapience, unlike the animals. There's probably more to it than that as well.

So 'image of' means we both possess wisdom and a soul. I'll give you wisdom but I'm not sure about God having a soul.

He has perfect self-sufficiency within himself, so it's not out of a lack. Perhaps it is because of the abundance within him.

Abundance and surplus appear to be memes in this part of the world. I suspect that they, like "God is love", are handy truisms of sufficient vagueness to confound a pedant like me.

OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Er, a basic problem here is that your question is ambiguous. If you ask why God created humans someone may justifiably answer that he needed someone to till the soil and tend the land. Apparently you would respond, "Aha! But you haven't answered the question of why God created the soil!" Right... but you didn't ask why God created the soil. You asked why God created humans.

The question isn't ambiguous. It's a logical follow on from you answer.

There is an argument we've seen around here quite a lot. It goes something like this:

1. If an agent acts it is to fulfill a need.
2. If an agent is in need then they are not self-sufficient.
3. Therefore, if God created then he is not self-sufficient.

This argument has very little to do with humans as opposed to just creation in general. Apparently this argument is what is behind your question in the OP?

Self sufficiency certainly plays in to this discussion but it isn't the reason for my question. I wanted to explore the 'God created humans reasoning' as opposed to 'why did God create the Universe and Everything'. God for instance, could have created a Universe without humans. Specifically adding humans to the mix explores the God/human relationship. Why does God need man is an interesting question.? Conversely "Why does man need God" is relatively straightforward.

OB

 

[zippy2006]

Self sufficiency certainly plays in to this discussion but it isn't the reason for my question. I wanted to explore the 'God created humans reasoning' as opposed to 'why did God create the Universe and Everything'. God for instance, could have created a Universe without humans. Specifically adding humans to the mix explores the God/human relationship. Why does God need man is an interesting question.? Conversely "Why does man need God" is relatively straightforward.

Then there are two basic questions: 1) Why did God create humans in addition to the other parts of material creation? 2) Why does God need man?

You have received some answers to the first question:

Humans, having a significant degree of self-awareness and intelligence, can participate in that in a way that bacteria and tree moss cannot.

The human specifically seems to have been created as a steward and epitome of material creation who is called to share in God's own life and vision in a way that unintelligent creatures cannot.

The second question presupposes the 3-step argument I gave here, and you have also received answers to that:

Creation can be seen as an overflowing of this love and an invitation to take part in divine relationship.

It is, as Silmarien explained, a sharing in the divine life through a gratuitous overflow of love.

Specifically, the Christian would deny premise 1. God needs man no more than he needs any other part of creation, and it is perfectly possible to act in a way that is not simply out of need.

 

[Sketcher]

"Something else" is an awkward explanation. It seems to me that Christians constantly ascribe human characteristics (love, jealousy, anger, want etc) to their God and then vigorously deny that God has humanlike qualities. There is a lot of cake eating and cake keeping going on here.

We believe that God is perfect, and that we are not. Therefore, our love, our jealousy, our anger, and our desires are all lower than God's.

The obvious question is "If he's self sufficient why create anything?"

And we're attempting to explore the motives of a greater being than we can understand who hasn't revealed those motives to us. If it's hard to know another person's motives for doing anything (which in many cases, is the case) how can we understand God's?

So 'image of' means we both possess wisdom and a soul. I'll give you wisdom but I'm not sure about God having a soul.

The human soul is supernatural. God himself is supernatural. And there's probably more to that, but I don't want to speculate too much.

 

[Occams Barber]

Then there are two basic questions: 1) Why did God create humans in addition to the other parts of material creation? 2) Why does God need man?

They are essentially the same question. The only difference is I wrote Q2 with my tongue firmly lodged in my cheek

You have received some answers to the first question:

Humans, having a significant degree of self-awareness and intelligence, can participate in that in a way that bacteria and tree moss cannot.

The fact that humans have self awareness and intelligence doesn't explain WHY God created them unless you're prepared to concede that God needed an articulate companion.​

The human specifically seems to have been created as a steward and epitome of material creation who is called to share in God's own life and vision in a way that unintelligent creatures cannot.

God needed a Park Ranger? One result of this logic is it relegates humans to second place as caretakers. It means that humans were created for their functional value relative to creation. And it still begs the question of why God created the Park in the first place.

The second question presupposes the 3-step argument I gave here, and you have also received answers to that:

Specifically, the Christian would deny premise 1. God needs man no more than he needs any other part of creation, and it is perfectly possible to act in a way that is not simply out of need.

"Gratuitous overflowing of love"??? "Taking part in the divine relationship???

How about
"We don't really know but there are some vague terms we could slap together to make it all sound very mysterious"

OB

 

[muichimotsu]

It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?​

OB

It honestly does baffle me and has been a general objection for probably a decade: if God is perfect, God cannot have either needs or desires, so being self sufficient, as a poster brought up, why would it even have a desire in regards to love, when it's a perfect and self sufficient being?

If you want nothing in life and are complete, then creating entities to have a relationship with implies the polar opposite, you need a relationship, you need interaction, which wouldn't make sense unless you're a powerful, but still flawed entity of godlike powers and such.

 

[Silmarien]

I find the concept of a 'surplus of love' mystifying. Is it possible we need a certain number of things to love so that our surplus a suitably absorbed?

You are importing the concept of "need" where it doesn't exist. Think of a cup of water--if additional water is added, the cup will overflow. Does the water that overflows "need" to be absorbed by anything? Not really. It's just there.

You're also looking at things backwards if you think the logic would be, "I have all this extra love, so I need to do something with it." It's more that God's nature is such that further sharing this love is something he has freely chosen to do, even though he isn't constrained to do it.

Is this what God is like or are you just anthropomorphising?

There's nothing anthropomorphic in the notion of overflow. It's a very basic metaphor.

It's the idea that God would not do anything unless he actually needed to that I find extremely anthropomorphic. Your whole concept of self-sufficiency is based on a very human picture of complacency, I think.

I also don't understand why said surplus would prompt God to create humans. I also find it hard to accept that your omni-everything God would suffer from a surplus of anything.

Why would surplus be something to be suffered?

 

[Halbhh]

It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?​

OB

Genesis 1:27 ...in the image of God He created them...

Why not?

See?

 

[dlamberth]

But, since God is fully sufficient within himself, it's not because he needed us.

When I think of God before Genesis 1:1, what I see is pure intelligence. That's it. That's what I see as God in it's natural state before any of this physical world came into being. In that state of pure intelligence there is no way for God to be aware of HimSelf. There's nothing to be conscious of. Nothing to grab onto. And that's were Human Beings come into play. At least in how I understand it, we Human Beings are how God is consciousness of Himself. Creation fulfills God's completeness. And to carry this a step further, the way I see it, it's through this Creation that God can be complete and fully sufficient within Himself.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks Tone.
That shower sounds good. It's hot and very humid here at the moment.

What you've described are the benefits you see humans getting from being with God. My question was about why God created humans. There was nothing to compare His glory to before creation.

OB

If there were no humans would God be so glorious? I think God’s glory is compared to human glory which is insignificant compared to His. But before creation how could God’s glory be measured?

 

[eleos1954]

It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?​

OB

The Bible informs us that "God is love" (1 John 4:16). Love involves a lover, a beloved, and a spirit of love between lover and loved.

The Father might be likened to the Lover; the Son to the One loved, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love. Yet love does not exist unless these three are united as one. This illustration has the advantage of being personal, since it involves love, a characteristic that flows only from persons.

Seeing that God is love (1 Jn. 4:16), the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a demonstration of perfect love in its purest form. Love is not force. Love is accepted and flows from person to person. There is a lover—one initiating the love, a beloved—the one receiving the love from the lover, and the spirit of love—a mutual received love between both parties. In the case of the triune relationship, this love is mutually given and received by all three members of the Godhead.

Love was/is extended from the intelligent loving unity in heaven to intelligent created beings. Why? To fill the universe with His spirit of love … mutually given and received.

John 17:21

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

The love of many becoming one with their creator experiencing everything created by Him through LOVE. Beautiful!

 

[ananda]

It appears to be a central tenet of Christianity that God created humans. While Christians may disagree on the specifics of how and when, there seems to be a consensus that God was responsible.

Assuming I’ve understood this correctly, I have a simple question.

Why?
Why did God create humans?​

OB

IMO, if "God" can be understood in terms of concepts which we (as humans) understand and know, then the answer to that question is: the biblical deity created humans because he was insufficient in and of himself.

Any other answer must necessarily be beyond human understanding/knowledge, aka imagination/faith.

 

[Halbhh]

IMO, if "God" can be understood in terms of concepts which we (as humans) understand and know, then the answer to that question is: the biblical deity created humans because he was insufficient in and of himself.

Any other answer must necessarily be beyond human understanding/knowledge, aka imagination/faith.

But God is in the most essential concept already above human understanding.

(we are also simply told this:
8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." )

 

[Occams Barber]

Genesis 1:27 ...in the image of God He created them...

Why not?

See?

Your quote says God created humans. It doesn't say why.
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

The Bible informs us that "God is love" (1 John 4:16). Love involves a lover, a beloved, and a spirit of love between lover and loved.

The Father might be likened to the Lover; the Son to the One loved, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love. Yet love does not exist unless these three are united as one. This illustration has the advantage of being personal, since it involves love, a characteristic that flows only from persons.

Seeing that God is love (1 Jn. 4:16), the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a demonstration of perfect love in its purest form. Love is not force. Love is accepted and flows from person to person. There is a lover—one initiating the love, a beloved—the one receiving the love from the lover, and the spirit of love—a mutual received love between both parties. In the case of the triune relationship, this love is mutually given and received by all three members of the Godhead.

Love was/is extended from the intelligent loving unity in heaven to intelligent created beings. Why? To fill the universe with His spirit of love … mutually given and received.

John 17:21

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

The love of many becoming one with their creator experiencing everything created by Him through LOVE. Beautiful!

You have a lot of lovin' going on in your post eleos but no explanation of why God created humans.

If I accept, for argument's sake, the very vague "God is Love" trope, how does that lead to the creation of humans?
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

If there were no humans would God be so glorious? I think God’s glory is compared to human glory which is insignificant compared to His. But before creation how could God’s glory be measured?

Is God so vain that He needs a yardstick with which to measure His own glory?
OB