It seems to me that It all went wrong when Satan came along in the form of a serpent. When God threw Satan out of Heaven, why couldn't he put him somewhere else in the universe far away from earth?
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Why Did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve?
- Thread starter thedream233
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Yeah, if I ruled the earth, I would have tried a different plan.
But strengthening doesn't come from everything being perfect. It comes from facing challenges.
But strengthening doesn't come from everything being perfect. It comes from facing challenges.
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He could have, but then what would the next angel have done? Or the next? Or the next?
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Calminian
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I'm not sure that's exactly how it went down. Perhaps you're referring to John's vision in Revelation, where Satan fell from heaven and a third of the angels followed? But this was a vision and I'm not sure it was trying to convey anything other than Satan's moral fall. As far as physical geographic dwellings, the Bible suggests that angels dwell in the heavenlies and on earth even now.
I would agree with you, though, that Satan's fall preceded Adam's fall and that Satan incited the snake to tempt Adam. Why would God allow such a thing? God favors freedom over eliminating the possibility of sin. Simple as that. The temptation in the Garden created an opportunity for Adam to obey or disobey. Just as God's grace provides the opportunity for us to receive God's gift by faith. God saw freedom as a good thing, even a "very good" thing.
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You obviously do not know who Satan is.
Also, it's not a question of God allowing. Satan will tempt everyone. Some give in to the temptation. God has given us all free will, caving in to temptation is *our* choice.
What purpose would it serve God to create a legion of robots?
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The best explanation I have heard is simply that God established one rule in the "garden". It was a test. Do not eat of the fruit of that tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Mankind failed the test. It was a matter of free will. Man chose to ignore God's single command at the time. (Note the 10 commandments came much later).
The second test is what we are facing now. Namely, to accept, or deny, Christ as our savior. If we accept Christ we are saved and adopted into the family of God.
If we reject Christ, we also reap the consequences of that choice. Again, it is a matter of free will. We are free to choose either way.
God created man for a special reason. He loves us more than any of us can truly understand. He wants us to love Him in return, but true love comes from the FREE WILL of the person doing the loving. Anything else is not love.
Could God have prevented Satan from tempting Adam and Eve? Of course. I submit, however, that He knew the outcome before the test. That is why He provided a solution to the problem of man's rejection before man was even created. That solution is Christ.
Fred
Mankind failed the test. It was a matter of free will. Man chose to ignore God's single command at the time. (Note the 10 commandments came much later).
The second test is what we are facing now. Namely, to accept, or deny, Christ as our savior. If we accept Christ we are saved and adopted into the family of God.
If we reject Christ, we also reap the consequences of that choice. Again, it is a matter of free will. We are free to choose either way.
God created man for a special reason. He loves us more than any of us can truly understand. He wants us to love Him in return, but true love comes from the FREE WILL of the person doing the loving. Anything else is not love.
Could God have prevented Satan from tempting Adam and Eve? Of course. I submit, however, that He knew the outcome before the test. That is why He provided a solution to the problem of man's rejection before man was even created. That solution is Christ.
Fred
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Key
The Opener of Locks
God allowed Satan.. his freedom...
That is what Satan did with his freedom.. to tempt man....
Man with his Freedom... left God....
Why did God do as he did... Many people might say many things...
But the end result is... you are always given a choice... you can follow God.. or Follow Satan...
God Bless
Key.
That is what Satan did with his freedom.. to tempt man....
Man with his Freedom... left God....
Why did God do as he did... Many people might say many things...
But the end result is... you are always given a choice... you can follow God.. or Follow Satan...
God Bless
Key.
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Ben12
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Where are you getting all this freewill stuff? Where does it say Satan has freewill in scripture? Man does not have freewill to choose salvation; he is saved by grace. God had to know and ordain Adam and Eves fall or God is not an all knowing God. Besides He had a savior before their was a sinner.
1 Peter 1:19but with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He
indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you 21who through Him
believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory,
so that your faith and hope are in God.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of the
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Peter 1:19but with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He
indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you 21who through Him
believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory,
so that your faith and hope are in God.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of the
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
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Grace is the process which God uses to save.
The choice of whether to be saved or not is ours.
Or are you just another Calvinist?
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Ben12
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johnthreesixteen
I am not a Calvanist but I do use scripture:
It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word.
But I am saying we do not come to God by free will; we are saved by grace. I see on the contrary He draws (Gk. drags) us.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me.
Draw Greek Strongs 1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):
I am not a Calvanist but I do use scripture:
It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word.
Please if you can find it; show me. I have searched and cannot not find the concept of freewill or the word free will/freewill in the Bible except the Freewill Offering in the OT. Now there are a few verses in the OT the hint towards free will; but that has nothing to do with salvation; salvation is a NT revelation.
But I am saying we do not come to God by free will; we are saved by grace. I see on the contrary He draws (Gk. drags) us.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me.
Draw Greek Strongs 1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):
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So you only believe in those things that you can find in the Bible?
So there is no such thing as electricity because the Bible doesn't mention it?
If some people are not saved, then that is God's decision? Is that what you believe?
I need to know your precise position before I can debate with you.
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Ben12
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No the Bible is full of hidden secrets; but for there to be a secret there has to be a message hidden somewhere. There is no message anywhere about freewill or man having a free choice. only man's tradition. I do not believe God is calling all people now; He is calling His firstfruit.
Clearly it is written, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23).
Pro. 25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. The word mystery is written 27 times in the Bible and means sacred secret in the Greek.
If this doctrine is so true then why is it not in God’s Word? I believe the Bible is full of truth both hidden and literal but when the Bible shows us something total opposite then a traditional doctrine; I refuse to be like the Jews and blindly follow the tradition.
O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" (Jer. 10:23).
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me.
1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):
Romans 8:18-25 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
Rom 9:21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor
Amp. Rom 9:8 That is to say, it is not the children of the body [of Abraham] who are made God's children, but it is the offspring to whom the promise applies that shall be counted [as Abraham's true] descendants.9 for this is what the promise said, about this time [next year] will I return and Sarah shall have a son.) 10 And not only that, but this too: Rebecca conceived [two sons under exactly the same circumstances] by our forefather Isaac,11 And the children were yet unborn and had so far done nothing either good or evil. Even so, in order further to carry out God's purpose of selection (election, choice), which depends not on works or what men can do, but on Him Who calls [them],
(vs. 16, what about having a freewill ? If God wills; then man wills means nothing; that is what grace is)
Notice the order: "God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath made us alive together with Christ (by grace are ye saved)" (Eph. 2:4-5).
Key has a point. Something is very wrong with this freewill dogma.
I will return tommorow
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Ben12
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God is the author of all things; or He is not God. If sin is in the world then God has a greater purpose or plan. Are you saying that Adam's sin is greater then the blood of the lamb.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (KJV)
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Wow, what a cranky day at the forum... too much caffeine in action. Sorry, dreamer. I hope you get some insights amid the clatter.
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