Why did God allow Lucifer to sin?

[reddogs]

I have always wondered why God didnt just wipe out sin when it first appeared, why didnt He stop Lucifer before it got to the point of no return. Why didnt God unveil the results of sin so that Lucifer would stop and come back to his senses and give up his campaign against God and His justice and benevolence.

 

[OntheDL]

I have always wondered why God didnt just wipe out sin when it first appeared, why didnt He stop Lucifer before it got to the point of no return. Why didnt God unveil the results of sin so that Lucifer would stop and come back to his senses and give up his campaign against God and His justice and benevolence.

Red, my friend, isn't this the whole point of the great controversy???

If God had just snapped a finger that Satan is wiped out of memory which He has the power to do, how would the rest of the universe think?

Would they obey God out of love or fear???

The angels had no concept of sin and death. A third of angels stood with Lucifer. The rest though loyal to God I suspect could have been sympathetic to Lucifer. When Christ's death on the cross, the character of Lucifer was fully revealed and understood by the spectators.

That's why God has allowed sin to play out its course. It's because of God's mercy that ultimately we all choose whom to serve by our full understanding of the consequence of sin.

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Revelation 5:13.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The great controversy is ended. Sin and sinners are no more. The entire universe is clean. One pulse of harmony and gladness beats through the vast creation. From Him who created all, flow life and light and gladness, throughout the realms of illimitable space. From the minutest atom to the greatest world, all things, animate and inanimate, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, declare that God is love. [/FONT]-GC p679

 

[StormyOne]

I have always wondered why God didnt just wipe out sin when it first appeared, why didnt He stop Lucifer before it got to the point of no return. Why didnt God unveil the results of sin so that Lucifer would stop and come back to his senses and give up his campaign against God and His justice and benevolence.

He wanted to see what would happen? There did exist the possibility that Lucifer might not sin.....

 

[reddogs]

Red, my friend, isn't this the whole point of the great controversy???

If God had just snapped a finger that Satan is wiped out of memory which He has the power to do, how would the rest of the universe think?

Would they obey God out of love or fear???

The angels had no concept of sin and death. A third of angels stood with Lucifer. The rest though loyal to God I suspect could have been sympathetic to Lucifer. When Christ's death on the cross, the character of Lucifer was fully revealed and understood by the spectators.

That's why God has allowed sin to play out its course. It's because of God's mercy that ultimately we all choose whom to serve by our full understanding of the consequence of sin.

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Revelation 5:13.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The great controversy is ended. Sin and sinners are no more. The entire universe is clean. One pulse of harmony and gladness beats through the vast creation. From Him who created all, flow life and light and gladness, throughout the realms of illimitable space. From the minutest atom to the greatest world, all things, animate and inanimate, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, declare that God is love. [/FONT]-GC p679

Yes, but the scriptures doesnt give detail only a glass looking darkly view, this is where the Spirit of Prophecy fills in the gap, but unfortunately some make themselves blind to the extra insight by rejecting what is given....

I read somewhere that over half of the angels had been convinced that he had a valid argument, but something happened that held Lucifer in check and when he was forced out only a third of the angels came with him.....

 

[OntheDL]

Yes, but the scriptures doesnt give detail only a glass looking darkly view, this is where the Spirit of Prophecy fills in the gap, but unfortunately some make themselves blind to the extra insight by rejecting what is given....

The story of Job gives us glimpse of whole contention: satan's accusation against God's character and His fit to rule the universe.

SOP magnified and clarified the scriptures.

I read somewhere that over half of the angels had been convinced that he had a valid argument, but something happened that held Lucifer in check and when he was forced out only a third of the angels came with him.....

I think it's in the Desire of Ages. I'll have to check on that.

 

[reddogs]

He wanted to see what would happen? There did exist the possibility that Lucifer might not sin.....

If only there could have been a way to show them what was about to happen so they could step back from the brink......

 

[StormyOne]

If only there could have been a way to show them what was about to happen so they could step back from the brink......

of course Lucifer has a side to the story, and you have never heard his side... might be interesting....

 

[Larmore]

I read somewhere that over half of the angels had been convinced that he had a valid argument, but something happened that held Lucifer in check and when he was forced out only a third of the angels came with him.....

Sin is the ultimate in selfishness and is about taking,,,,, love is giving in an infinite way. That set of concepts and what it represents is foundational to the great controversy. I wish sin had never made it's ugly appearance in our universe. Especially here on the planet I was born on. My eternal life or eternal death hangs in the balance by what I choose when I exercise my free will. That gift of a free will is almost as important as the gift of the plan of salvation provided by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Freedom to choose right or wrong is extended to all of God's higher creatures. When the great controversy is concluded not one sentient being in this whole universe will ever doubt God's love or His government. That is why it has been allowed to run it's course. Praise God for so many gifts, Praise God for saving my soul. We are all like precious jewels plucked from the fire. No other beings in the universe will be able to sing our songs of praise for the precious blood of Christ who has made salvation possible for all mankind.

Praise God, Amen

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I know you folks were not there. You didn't see what happened. You did not see how it all got started. I could tell you IF you wanted to know ... and IF I get permission ... but I'm not sure it would do any good. Some of you might not be able to handle it.

Plus I've never tried to share it with a group before. It's intimate, and I usually only share it one-on-one WHEN I'm allowed to.

The whole thing is terribly sad and tragic, and that's why I have hope for a better resolution than standard theology has yet conceived.

 

[smooze]

Ooooh brother Good grief Charlie brown . You really expect us to believe you have some special channeling ability. Ok when you find out about why lucifer sinned ask him why all my hair fell out and why he couldn't tempt Jesus and ooh and what does he smell like sulphur? give me a break lol what a joke

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

of course Lucifer has a side to the story, and you have never heard his side... might be interesting....

INDEED HE DOES.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Ooooh brother Good grief Charlie brown . You really expect us to believe you have some special channeling ability. Ok when you find out about why lucifer sinned ask him why all my hair fell out and why he couldn't tempt Jesus and ooh and what does he smell like sulphur? give me a break lol what a joke

You can "beLIEve" whatever pleases you. I know what I know, and I know how I know it. Whether you beLIEve me or not is not going to change that. And it has nothing to do with "channeling" -- if anything is a "joke" it's that notion. Good GRIEF.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

Just to add this in here right quick. Channeling is as real as anything else is out there. In a sense, it's the same thing that the writers of the Bible did, just today's termonology tends to put it as Satanic within the Christian realm of things.

Those inspired and shown visions by the Holy Spirit were channeling, they were simply channeling God.

And I speak from experience in this one, as well as the fact I know quite a few channelers. Whether good or bad source, it's real.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Oh I wasn't saying it isn't REAL. It's just that .....

......


......

Incarnations don't NEED to channel.

 

[IntoTheCrimsonSky]

Oh I wasn't saying it isn't REAL. It's just that .....

......


......

Incarnations don't NEED to channel.

Ohhh. Okay.

Incarnations? I think I know what you're suggesting, but not completely sure.

 

[Cliff2]

I have always wondered why God didnt just wipe out sin when it first appeared, why didnt He stop Lucifer before it got to the point of no return. Why didnt God unveil the results of sin so that Lucifer would stop and come back to his senses and give up his campaign against God and His justice and benevolence.

I believe that the only reason that God did not destroy Lucifer was that the sin problem would not have been fixed by doing it that way.

God's way was the only way for it to be fixed.

It would have fixed it up right then and there at least for a few years but doubt would still be in the minds of those who were watching.

Now as god is love, God can only use love to draw being to Him, not use force at all.

God cannot tell lies, Lucifer can and did.

So we have the problem of what can God do with Lucifer?

I cannot understand all of the problems from when sin entered but before that I do not have an answer.

Such as why create Lucifer when God knew that he would sin?

I would not do that but I am not God so be patient and maybe soon we can all ask God those questions that no one can answer.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I think I know what you're suggesting, but not completely sure.

PM me then. Might NOT be what you're thinking ...
(edit: you have to either bless me or buddy list me to send a PM. got too many nasty ones from mean ppl so i've restricted the access)

 

[reddogs]

I believe that the only reason that God did not destroy Lucifer was that the sin problem would not have been fixed by doing it that way.

God's way was the only way for it to be fixed.

It would have fixed it up right then and there at least for a few years but doubt would still be in the minds of those who were watching.

Now as god is love, God can only use love to draw being to Him, not use force at all.

God cannot tell lies, Lucifer can and did.

So we have the problem of what can God do with Lucifer?

I cannot understand all of the problems from when sin entered but before that I do not have an answer.

Such as why create Lucifer when God knew that he would sin?

I would not do that but I am not God so be patient and maybe soon we can all ask God those questions that no one can answer.

So you think sin had to be shown for what it was in order for it to be erradicated....

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

It is interesting to see how people are so interested in fictional material. First of course Lucifer is a term used of the prince of Babylon. It never meant Satan to either the Jews or to New Testament Christians. It is a creation of certain 3rd century theologians.

What the Bible does describe of Satan is that he is a liar and murderer from the beginning. Satan mentioned in the book of Job is not a personal name just the title of an adversary.

The ultimate answer to the question when one removes all the mythology of the middle ages is what kind of person is God. Does He force Himself on people or force people to obey Him. Clearly He does not or we would not be in such a sin filled world. So if God does not force obedience on people why should one expect God to force obedience on angels? So if you want to know the answer then consider what love is, read 1 Cor. 13

 

[Pythons]

PM me then. Might NOT be what you're thinking ...
(edit: you have to either bless me or buddy list me to send a PM. got too many nasty ones from mean ppl so i've restricted the access)

Lay it on us. This is the discussion and debate area and I for one would like to hear what you know and how you came to know it.