WHY did God allow Jews to suffer the Holocaust?

[John Zain]

I am very interested in your opinions about this.
After several replies, I'll share my ideas.

 

[gsheph]

I am not claiming to know the mind of God, but I'll answer in a way similar in which I heard Dr. Ravi Zacharias answer the question of how a benevolent God can allow suffering.

We live in a world of post-modernism where there are no absolutes (except of course that one); morals are whatever you choose. But, if we have no inherent morals, then we have no inherent value. Thus, in the world's mind there is nothing to say that what Hitler and the Nazis did was wrong -- in fact, it was relatively good, some might say.

Without the inherent value and worth that God gives us by first dirtying His hands and shaping us instead of speaking us into being shows the intent and closeness that God intended in the beginning, we are nothing. Dr. Zacharias brings up the poem "Creed" by Steve Turner which is followed by this:

"Chance" a post-script

If chance be the Father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky,
and when you hear

State of Emergency!
Sniper Kills Ten!
Troops on Rampage!
Whites go Looting!
Bomb Blasts School!

It is but the sound of man worshiping his maker.​

If we are here by chance and we become our own god, destruction is immanent.

But what do we know? The fact that the King of Glory stepped off His throne to serve instead of being served, to die for the ones He fashioned in His own image.

I think the reason God allows the Holocaust is so people can begin to realize the worth of other humans.

 

[Jpark]

An extraordinarily high peak of judgment, a continuance of reoccurring demands.

A gentle call to repentance went unanswered. As prophecy did foretold.

If God didn't care and was not involved with this world, would anything happen at all?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Anyone who thinks they have an explanation should probably be ignored.

 

[Hentenza]

My best guess, without the holocaust the nation of Israel would probably not exist now since part of the reason for its existence was the Jew's resettlement of the area.

 

[Simonline]

I am very interested in your opinions about this.
After several replies, I'll share my ideas.

Who cares about your ideas?! The Bible tells us why the Jewish people had to endure the 'Holocaust' [Shoah] and why they will have to endure the forthcoming Shoah (that will make the first Shoah pale into insignificance by comparison) as well. Go study.

Simonline.

 

[John Zain]

”There is absolutely no rationalistic explanation for the Holocaust except for the fact
that it was a Divine decree … why it happened is above human comprehension –
but it is definitely not because of punishment for sin.”
From: Texts & Writings - Jewish Books - Learning & Values (a Jewish website)
This is the prevailing Jewish attitude, due to either total ignorance or denial of the simple truth.

The truth of the situation is explained from Old Testament Scriptures below:

Through one man (Adam) came the sin nature, and it was passed on
“… for there is no one who does not sin …” (2 Chronicles 6:36).
“I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (David, Psalm 51:5).
“… all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths!)” (Isaiah 64:6).
“… for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart ...” (Jeremiah 16:12).
Jesus told His disciples that they were evil: “If you then, being evil …” (Luke 11:13).
Does a totally Holy God want evil sinful souls to be with Him in Heaven for all of eternity?

The penalty for sin is separation from God
“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you,
so that He will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2).
“For you have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.” (Isaiah 64:7).

Enter the beginning of God’s solution to man’s problem
“The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above
all the peoples on the face of the earth … Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God,
the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations
with those who love Him and keep His commandments” (Deuteronomy 7:6-9).
“Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant,
then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people …” (Exodus 19:5).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

God gave them His Law to follow, and gave them a critical choice
This began with The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17).
And God promised to bless them: “… if you obey the voice of the Lord your God,
to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in the Book of the Law
… I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you
life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life (by obeying),
that both you and your descendants may live” (Deuteronomy 30:10-19).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

They repeatedly broke their covenant with God, who warned of the dire consequences
“… and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them,
and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and
troubles shall befall them … I will heap disasters on them …” (Deuteronomy 31:16--32:23).
Check out some of the gruesome details here: Ezekiel 5:5-17, Ezekiel 20:5-9.
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you …
because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His statutes
and His commandments ... And they (the curses) shall be upon you for a sign and
a wonder, and on your descendents forever.” (Deuteronomy 28:45-46).
Moses prophesied: “For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt
… And evil will befall you in the latter days …” (Deuteronomy 31:29).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

God left them in their original state of spiritual blindness/deafness
“Now Moses called all of Israel and said to them: ‘You have seen all that the Lord
did before your eyes … Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive
and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.’ ” (Deuteronomy 29:3-4).
“And He said, ‘Go, and tell this people: Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive. Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes ...” (Isaiah 6:9-10).
Sin >> spiritual death >> separation from God >> spiritual blindness/deafness

God dispersed them throughout the world
“Then the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other” (Deut 28:64).
“… when I scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the countries.” (Ezek 12:15).

God promised a new, and better, and more personal covenant
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant
… not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers (Israel & Judah)
… I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God,
and they shall be My people … for they shall all know Me … For I will forgive their iniquity,
and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
“For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into
your own land (1948) ... I will (future) give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you
… I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My
judgments and do them … you shall be My people, and I will be your God.” (Ezekiel 36:24-28).
This has begun … with the Messianic Jews (in Israel and elsewhere).

The New Testament confirms the truths of the Old Testament
For example:
Matthew 13:13-15 … Jesus is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
John 12:37-40 … John (v.40) is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
Romans 11:7-25 … Paul is referring to Isaiah 29:10, Deuteronomy 29:3-4, Psalm 69:22-23
.

 

[Simonline]

”There is absolutely no rationalistic explanation for the Holocaust except for the fact
that it was a Divine decree … why it happened is above human comprehension –
but it is definitely not because of punishment for sin.”
From: Texts & Writings - Jewish Books - Learning & Values (a Jewish website)
This is the prevailing Jewish attitude, due to either total ignorance or denial of the simple truth.

The truth of the situation is explained from Old Testament Scriptures below:

Through one man (Adam) came the sin nature, and it was passed on
“… for there is no one who does not sin …” (2 Chronicles 6:36).
“I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (David, Psalm 51:5).
“… all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths!)” (Isaiah 64:6).
“… for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart ...” (Jeremiah 16:12).
Jesus told His disciples that they were evil: “If you then, being evil …” (Luke 11:13).
Does a totally Holy God want evil sinful souls to be with Him in Heaven for all of eternity?

The penalty for sin is separation from God
“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you,
so that He will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2).
“For you have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.” (Isaiah 64:7).

Enter the beginning of God’s solution to man’s problem
“The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above
all the peoples on the face of the earth … Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God,
the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations
with those who love Him and keep His commandments” (Deuteronomy 7:6-9).
“Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant,
then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people …” (Exodus 19:5).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

God gave them His Law to follow, and gave them a critical choice
This began with The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17).
And God promised to bless them: “… if you obey the voice of the Lord your God,
to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in the Book of the Law
… I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you
life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life (by obeying),
that both you and your descendants may live” (Deuteronomy 30:10-19).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

They repeatedly broke their covenant with God, who warned of the dire consequences
“… and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them,
and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and
troubles shall befall them … I will heap disasters on them …” (Deuteronomy 31:16--32:23).
Check out some of the gruesome details here: Ezekiel 5:5-17, Ezekiel 20:5-9.
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you …
because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His statutes
and His commandments ... And they (the curses) shall be upon you for a sign and
a wonder, and on your descendents forever.” (Deuteronomy 28:45-46).
Moses prophesied: “For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt
… And evil will befall you in the latter days …” (Deuteronomy 31:29).
Their covenant with God was conditional, and would also affect their descendants.

God left them in their original state of spiritual blindness/deafness
“Now Moses called all of Israel and said to them: ‘You have seen all that the Lord
did before your eyes … Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive
and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.’ ” (Deuteronomy 29:3-4).
“And He said, ‘Go, and tell this people: Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive. Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes ...” (Isaiah 6:9-10).
Sin >> spiritual death >> separation from God >> spiritual blindness/deafness

God dispersed them throughout the world
“Then the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other” (Deut 28:64).
“… when I scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the countries.” (Ezek 12:15).

God promised a new, and better, and more personal covenant
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant
… not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers (Israel & Judah)
… I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God,
and they shall be My people … for they shall all know Me … For I will forgive their iniquity,
and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
“For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into
your own land (1948) ... I will (future) give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you
… I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My
judgments and do them … you shall be My people, and I will be your God.” (Ezekiel 36:24-28).
This has begun … with the Messianic Jews (in Israel and elsewhere).

The New Testament confirms the truths of the Old Testament
For example:
Matthew 13:13-15 … Jesus is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
John 12:37-40 … John (v.40) is referring to Isaiah 6:9-10
Romans 11:7-25 … Paul is referring to Isaiah 29:10, Deuteronomy 29:3-4, Psalm 69:22-23
.

You would do well to start believing what the Scriptures themselves reveal rather than just believing the unsubstantiated opinions of unbelieving Jews?!

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Probably because it (God) doesn't exist. BTW the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in Herbrew....just saying

If that's true then you don't exist either because God brought into existence everything else that exists apart from Himself (thus making it contingent upon Him) and sustains it in that existence too (because it isn't capable of sustaining itself) Gen.1:1; Col.1:15-17?!

That is the only explanation that, based upon all the evidence, makes reasonable sense and unlike the THEORY of Evolution isn't utterly dependent on blind faith (of the Santa Claus, leprachaun, unicorn and tooth faerie variety) in respect of the existential origins of all that currently exists (Ps.14:1(a))?!

Simonline.

 

[John Zain]

Anyone else here have a brilliant comment or two?
C'mon, anyone can easily outdo the S/L ... but only if you try a little.
.

 

[Knee V]

Crud happens to every person and every nation, a fact from which NOBODY is exempt. If you exist in this world, you will suffer at some point. If a nation exists in this world, it will suffer at some point. Evil people exist in every generation, and some do more damage than others.

 

[Aijalon]

I am very interested in your opinions about this.
After several replies, I'll share my ideas.

Why did God allow them to become slaves in Egypt?

Why did he allow them to be impoverished by the Midianites?

Why did he allow them to be captured by the Babylonians?

Why does God allow war at all, why did he allow sin in the first place, why does he "allow" his laws to ever be broken?


Lets answer these questions first, and then your question becomes a little easier.

In any event I see you've decided that the answer is that they have lost God's favor for violating his covenant with them, therefore God no longer keeps his conditional covenant. He made a new covenant to replace it, and keeps that covenant with the Messianic Jews who believe in Christ.

So you are saying that the Nation of Israel is disavowed before God, unless that is, Messianic Jews take over the governemnt?

Or are you just saying they lost protection? So then the question is, if they lost protection, and they have no covenant with God, why is Satan persecuting them so badly? Is Satan just upset that Jesus was a Jew and taking out his anger on them?

But wait, for what reason was the modern State of Israel established, and if again that nation is persecuted and destroyed, what does that say about God's covenant with Messianic Jews and Christians? Does it say anything at all? Should Messianic Jews just ditch the country?

 

[John Zain]

I see you've decided that the answer is that they have lost God's favor for violating his covenant with them,
therefore God no longer keeps his conditional covenant.
He made a new covenant to replace it, and keeps that covenant with the Messianic Jews who believe in Christ.
So you are saying that the Nation of Israel is disavowed before God, unless that is,
Messianic Jews take over the government?
Or are you just saying they lost protection?
So then the question is, if they lost protection, and they have no covenant with God,
why is Satan persecuting them so badly?
Is Satan just upset that Jesus was a Jew and taking out his anger on them?
But wait, for what reason was the modern State of Israel established,
and if again that nation is persecuted and destroyed,
what does that say about God's covenant with Messianic Jews and Christians?
Does it say anything at all? Should Messianic Jews just ditch the country?

Hey, I like your questions.
These are the only points that I'm sure about ...
This should be obvious to everyone, but, alas, it is not. Trust me on this!
Without protection, they're more vulnerable.
Impossible ... but I prefer the French pronunciation: im-pos-eeble.

P.S. And Welcome! ... After many prayers by many members ...
we're hopin' that you've come to replace the guy with the blue hair, the S/L.
.