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Why critics of Ellen G. White are "splitting hairs".

JohnMarsten

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My mother converted when I was about eight years old, so, it was quite a change... the rest of my family are catholics...

Yeah, it struck me as well when I read Moses and saw that God commanded the people to use tithes to buy strong drinks (among others). Somebody said that Moses never said it was used for drinking thats how far people will go in order dissuade somebody from believing the plain word of the bible.

Of course egw created an atmosphere where one simply is not good enough, and probably never will be. She even claimed people shouldnt be taught they have been saved (after baptizm I guess). Its like being under a constant threat of losing ones salvation. I guess this is where it is getting somewhat crazy as people can get paranoid and what is more JUDGMENTAL. - I mean, have you ever realized how much SDAs care about what other SDAs do? - in regard to their 'misbehaving' that is of course. They even made a short satiric commercial about it, where you can get an app that will give you a warning that some fellow SDAs are closing in. It was probably meant to be funny but when you think about SDA-reality its kinda sad.
 
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JohnMarsten

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Imagine that! Instead of teaching temperance they teach abstinence which not Biblical at all. I could go on how I thought Jesus never ate meat etc (also from her I am sure)

This is another good point that does more harm than good.

I have observed many times that if SDA children start drinking (or doing whatever goes against SDA rules) they somehow start doing it excessively. A belief originates that they are on the wrong path now and if they drink in moderation or excesively doesnt matter as they are sinning anyway (just because they drink at all).

Furthermore it can become quite frustrating if you have to explain yourself to other people why you are not drinking. I mean I wouldnt have a problem if I could say that the bible plainly forbids any alcohol and for example that it was the catholic church that changed that commandment. Could be a nice witnessing tool.

Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. The catholic church didnt change anything related to it as alcohol was never banned and as you rightly stated can be found on numerous occasions in the bible.

The problem arises when I have to tell people the following arguments

1. My church forbids it
- People might come and say that I cannot think freely for myself. It might even put the church in a negative position as it imposes certain rules on men which are indeed controversial. And in effect its true, its the church that forbids it and imposes this rule on their followers.

2. Drinking is a sin
- This one is kinda hard as well, as sin is explained through the word of God. If God dictates the rules we cannot come and overthrow them or change them to suit us. Of course alcohol CAN be sin, and the consequences of drinking might be very undesirable but still. The bible doesnt state that its sin just for the sake of being sin. This may cause some serious debates and will put us in a situation we simply cannot win (at least not with the bible alone )

3. Bad translation of the word wine
- Lets be honest this one tops it all, none of us was there when Jesus turned water into wine (the word of God). Making Jesus turn water into grape juice is an argument which is very difficult to prove. Some peopel say how could God Himself create intoxicating wine and give it to the people. Of course if it was sin from the very beginning, He couldnt do that. Thats easy! The problem is that He allowed the israelites to buy wine and strong drink. Psalmist David thank God for the wine that makes the hearts of men quite happy. By letting people make wine for themselves or allowing them to buy it and drink it, and what is more, a desire in my sould to drink wine is not forbidden , God simply allowed it and turning water into wine isnt any different from that. (I mean if you make it yourself or send somebody else to buy it? whats the difference?)
This argument puts us into a dire position as we have to bend the bible in order to make it fit.- some people might react very harshly and rightly so!
And I still dont know how to make Pauls remedial wine fit into the grape juice context

Of course one might simply say I dont drink because I dont want to drink. Thats a valid point, I know many people from outside the SDA who dont drink and I respect that, but I couldnt say that if it wasnt true, and why should I. If its the church that imposes the observance of suchrule, then it is the church that must provide the background to such rule to me, and if I cannot find it in the bible then we have a problem.

Testifying about Jesus to people is a 'business' of its own. Some people may listen to you, some people may laugh about you, in some countries they may even kill you. But hey, thats what we were called to do, right? But why should I take the flak for something that Jesus didnt tell me to do? Or put a stumbling block in front of some peoples faith? I mean, am I supposed to tell people that they have to pledge never to drink any alcohol before the SDA can have them baptized? otherwise they cannot become part of a church that is full of sinners anyway (yes, we are all sinners, and none of us is good). There are people in the SDA that are obese, they eat too much, yet they didnt have to pledge that from now on they are gonna eat in moderation and start losing the weight they have put on over the years of overeating. (I apologize to anyone who may feel offended about this example). But still the so-called sin of drinking alcohol is put in front of so many others that it is up to the individual to make a decision, follow God/church and never ever have a drink anymore or, well....
 
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CaptainToad

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The prodical son. He made errors but was not allowed to being his errors home with him.
To return he had to OBEY THE RULES of THEE FATHERS HOUSE.
So there is no sinning till JESUS COMES !

This is one is quite difficult to follow. What kind of errors are we talking about? He was not allowed to bring them with him? Was the brother of the prodigal son without error?

No sinning until Jesus comes?

That would be amazing, does it mean that every one is lost who lets say, has repented like the prodigal son, and sinned since then?

I know there are some people within the SDA who claim that we must get rid of all sin and that a life without sin is possible. It even sounds great! But in reality I have yet to meet people without sin - remember sin is not always the deeds that we do but sometimes the deeds that we don't do and sometimes the deeds that we would like to do.

In no way am I implying that you are a sinner, maybe you are one of those people who doesnt sin - I am not - so in this regard I rather believe there is no sinning after Jesus has come.
 
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Robert Bee

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Thank you for your reply.
In regard to sinning.
GOD is our judge so humans have no idea how to judge another person unless it is OPEN SIN.
"Ye will not be judged beyond that which ye are about"
Humans cannot read the mind.
Sure I am a sinner because I fall short of the GLORY of GOD.
ADAM took that away from me. I am a branded sinner even if I do not sin as far as I know.
But I must not boast of that as Like JESUS I was born of woman born of WOE.
The wheat & the TARE show how far humans can JUDGE. That far and no further.
Few even know that much.
 
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stinsonmarri

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stinsonmarri

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Red dog: the story about your father was precious and very enjoyable. I have said over and over that we do not listen to EGW as we claim we do. If we did we would she was not a prophet neither was David. We have always make mistakes to call people what they are not! EGW stated clearly she was not a prophet and the very last prophet was John who wrote Revelation. We did not need another prophet as was stated in Joel and Acts. What EGW and Hiram Edson that we seem to forget, both had visions. They prophesied as what is the gift of THE HOLY SPIRIT. Never do you read that anyone of HIS gifts were to be a prophet. We seem to fail to understand Acts 2:16, 17 and Rev 22:18. This is why we are so easily to accept false doctrine about the trinity and Christmas among other things. I pray that you all do not get upset with me but instead read the facts.
 
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stinsonmarri

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Red-dog: I truly enjoyed the story about your dad, it was joyful and humorous. However it appears that Adventist do not truly hear what EGW is saying nor do they believe in the Bible. It clearly states in Joel 2:28, 29 that Peter realized had now come to pass. Act 2:16, 17 That the fulfillment was coming to an end and THE HOLY SPIRIT was to be poured out upon all flesh in the last days. The Bible made it very clear that John was the last prophet and that his writing completed the mystery of salvation. Most confuse the word prophesy as being a prophet and that is not so! Paul made it clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT would give some the understanding of prophecy as a gift and other the gift of healing, administration to another discerning of spirits and so on. 1 Cor 12:4-11 Not once to you see the word prophet in these verse. EGW and Hiram Edson (appears that we do not mention as we should) both had visions. If it wasn't for Brother Edson we would not understand the Investigated Judgment which was given to both Daniel and John. Both of these messengers were given views of things that we today should understood. However, what they saw was already revealed in the Bible. The problem with us as it was with Israel we do not complete understand the message. Why, because we have taken our eyes off ELOHIM attempting to uplift a woman that refuse to be uplifted and remain humble. EGW was and still is a true servant of YAHSHUA. She was told that she was to a be a messenger and not a prophet! Yes she was use to see people person life to warn them of falling away from the truth. But she clearly stated that she was told by YAHSHUA that she was to be a messenger! Before I here unkind remarks, please check out all of the information on EGW and the last time she spoke on this subject matter. Then kindly get back with me!

Happy Sabbath and be bless!
 
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reddogs

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Like Moses, she was more than just a prophet.
 
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