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You haven't replaced anyone, you just believe the Church is Israel and THAT is called Replacement theology. God is not done with the Jewish nation of Israel.
Thanks for the response CG. I agree that Satan is loosed after the parabolic "1,000 years". But I believe these 2 passages are parallel, as I don't believe satan has 2 "little seasons".
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.”
Revelation 20:3 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
as I don't believe satan has 2 "little seasons".
Thanks for the response CG. I agree that Satan is loosed after the parabolic "1,000 years". But I believe these 2 passages are parallel, as I don't believe satan has 2 "little seasons".
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.”
Revelation 20:3 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
Thus, Christ's ascension to the throne is the fulfillment of the parabolic "1,000 years".
There are a literal 1,000 years from the time of David until Christ. Thus Christ's ascension fulfills Jeremiah 33:17, in which David would "never lack a man on the throne". The 1,000 years is the fulfillment of the binding of the strong man during Christ's ministry, death, resurrection and ascension, resulting in the apostles sitting on thrones to judge Israel and those in Christ being made a kingdom of priests through the power of the Spirit.
It was upon Christ's ascension that satan then cast out to make war on the peoples of God:
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me
Revelation 20:7-8 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
Revelation 12:13-17 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.Then from the mouth of the serpent spewed water like a river to overtake the woman and sweep her away in the torrent. But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth to swallow up the river that had poured from the dragon’s mouth. And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea
The 1000 years of Revelation 20 represents David to Christ ???Just so that you can slot Satan's little season into the events of AD 70 ??? Im sorry Claninja. I find that a novel and convoluted argument. 'Never heard it before.
Here is the normal Amil timeline:
View attachment 270872
Which of the following Jews is God not done with?
1. Jews by DNA
2. Jews by religion
3. Jews by culture
4. Jews faithful and obedient to His Son?
I clicked on your attachment but was sent to the following page instead----
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What does this error mean? Why would I not have permission to view this page?
Great questions!! Just a quick note here tho. I think that there will be a revival of the Jews before the end. In the the midst of trial tho.
Partial Preterism is a long-term covenantal view of our lives and Christ's nation. It sees that the Advent of the Messiah took the covenant nation of Israel and gave it a global, universal mission and dominion over all things. Therefore we are simply the next generation of Joshuas and Davids and Ezras and Pauls and Marys and Deborahs whose mission relates to the victorious destiny and inheritance of the Covenant people of God. We are the people of Hebrews 11 faith and dominon. We are the People who God has predestined that we might "establish righteousness and subdue kingdoms" as did the heroes of our Faith (Heb 11:33). And so we are the only nation upon earth that has been given all dominion over Heaven and earth to subdue it and establish Christ's law and rule among mankind.
Indeed the Church used to think that way up until the late 1800s and 1900s when the endtimes leaders (Darby, Scofield, Moody, Sunday, Lindsey, Impe, etc) began to teach a doctrine of "predestined endtimes defeatism for the Church." Their prescription to the Church? Withdrawal. Retreat. "Come out from her my people." Don't vote. "You Don't polish brass on a sinking ship." Your kids aren't gonna live long enough to choose a career, spouse or college. Etc. etc. etc. This short-term thinking has hamstrung our Churches and hamstrung America which was founded on great faith by Christians who were mostly unfamiliar with endtimes short-term thinking patterns. The pioneers of America were builders and people who saw human history through the eyes of all-powerful faith and Divine destiny.
That worldview and faith has been lost due to false endtimes dogmas.
Only return to the Historic Partial Preterist view of the unstoppable Victory of the Gospel in the new covenant age will right that ship.
The historic Church has always had an eschatology of victory and hope. Catholic Amillennialists and later the Postmillennial Revivalists (Johnathan Edwards, etc) all have the same belief that the Church will triumph victorious in this age before the final consummation talked about in the historic creeds. As St. John also said, "The darkness is past; the true light now shineth!"
The apostles rightly understood that the purpose for the end of the Old Covenant Era was "that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:7) and that the Church is God's agent of His own glory and wisdom (Eph 3:1-11, 21). Augustine, Eusebius, the Puritans, and today's Reconstructionists all taught/teach us an eschatology of victory and triumph for the Church (and not doom and gloom).
Partial preterism is the most early and established Christian position on eschatology and it is the position that embraces and affirms the Victory of Christ and His Church in this age.
The Church is the only Nation of Christ that goes on forever, and the Church will never crumble (Matt 16:18-19;Eph 3:9-11,21). However, geo-political nations do come and go, for our God "sets up kings and puts them down" (Dan 2:21)... for God "is the supreme governor among the nations" (Ps 22:28)... for our God "rules over all the kingdoms of the heathen so none is able to withstand Him" (2 Chronicles 20:6)... and His "is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is His; His is the kingdom" (1 Chronicles 29:11). That is the gospel. That is the rule of law for mankind. That is the reality of the kingdom. The Church was given dominion over all the universe by divine right (Rom 4:12-18; Matt 28:18/Dan 7:14,27; Matt 5:5), and the world belongs to us (1 Cor 3:22) -- but, as with Joshua, the people of God must take it all by faith (1 Jn 5:4).
The vast majority of American evangelicals are dispensationalists, and they have been taught that America is doomed by God's will because we are in the last days. This has been their gospel for at least the past 100 years, and so those evangelicals and their kids and their grandkids were taught not to govern, run cities, play baseball, launch universities, or even get into media to fulfill one's duty to Christ. Mere personal piety was taught, the kind that doesn't affect anyone or anything else.
Ideas have consequences. Dispensationalist ideas have disastrous consequences (withdrawal, abandonment, escapism, surrender).
Their problem is that dispensationalists were taught a castrated, reduced gospel so that they don't even know what it means to have Christ govern their lives, marriages, jobs, society, and country. Moses understood what it meant to have Christ govern lives, societies, families and country. So did Joshua. And David. And the apostles. And King Jesus. And even many of the fathers of America.
That's why I trust the power of Partial Preterism to get Christians back in the game to win. Nearly all converts are willing, but they are often without vision from their endtimes pastors who have abandoned America due to some foolish "prophetic inevitability." We have to change the faithless cowardice of our abandonment clergy that are too drunk on endtimes wine to carry out their duties to the country, and the World, and encourage all Christians to embrace the victorious, historic preterist eschatology.
If we understand "the beast" to be - in general terms - an earthly religious power that had usurped God's true power - couldn't all the judges and prophets that were sent BY GOD (but murdered instead) to get the ancient Israelite assembly back on course in their sole allegiance to the One True God be those martyred that "reign with Christ" for the millienial period? That's an awkwardly written sentence, I know :/
... because there are people parading themselves as Amils on this board who espouse Full Preterist heretical beliefs that are arguing views that NO Amil I know believes. Their view of Revelation 20 is both outlandish and nonsensical. In recent weeks, sincere and typical Partial Preterist have distanced themselves from their mystical and heretical beliefs on this forum. Non-Partial Preterist Amils have done likewise on a litany of major fundamentals. I have studied, written and taught on this matter for 20 years and have never encountered these views until this last 6 weeks on this board. Not only are they not Amil, they are not Christian beliefs. Those who espouse them argue that the second coming and general resurrection are not literal or physical, but rather spiritual and ongoing. They do not pertain to an event, but a process. They are not future but past tense.
You should not tar the 99.9% with the dangerous views of 00.1%. If mkgal, claninja and parousia70 were on any other Premil, Postmil or Amil board they would rightly be banned.
I hope this dispels your confusion.
Engaging in an argument with them is pointless because they do not represent Amil or Christian orthodoxy, but an aberrant and a dangerous form of Amil. It would be like me rejecting Premil because of the JWs or Mormonism. That would be unfair!
I'm going to be honest. I can't even remotely follow their lines of thinking, in regards to this subject. They lost me a long way back.
Even though I might disagree with you when it comes to this particlar subject, at least I can follow your line of thinking and can make some sense of your position for the most part. If it were not for Revelation 20:4 showing that the beast's 42 month reign in Revelation 13 is already fulfilled and in the past before satan is ever loosed, thus telling us that this 42 months does not parallel satan's little season after the thousand years, I might be more inclined to believe Amil could be a valid position after all. So how can it be if Amil needs Revelation 13 and the 42 month reign of the beast to parallel satan's little season after the thousand years, when Revelation 20:4 is already telling us it can't and doesn't?
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What I have underlined above, it is illogical that none of this martyrdom takes place during the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13. Of course it takes place during that 42 months, because until one beast rises out of the sea first, and another out of the earth, where the 2nd one makes an image to the beast which had a deadly wound and was healed, their cannot yet be any martyrs for refusing to worship it's image. Therefore for there to be these martyrs in Revelation 20:4, for not worshiping the beast's image, means that the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 has to precede the thousand years, since it for sure can't follow it. The only position something like that can possibly work with is Premil. It most definitely can't work with Amil.
Which of the following Jews is God not done with?
1. Jews by DNA
2. Jews by religion
3. Jews by culture
4. Jews faithful and obedient to His Son?
Who are the Jews who will be revived? In which of the categories I listed are they found?
Well #4 is already revived arn't they? I mean #1, 2, and 3, all of whom are represented to one degree on other in modern day Israel. Revivals happen, and, God knows, they need it.
the parbolic "1,000" years, or millennium, begins/is fulfilled during Christ's ministry, his death, his resurrection, his ascension to heaven, and sending of the Spirit.
Christ's reign has no end.
So, 1000 years equals 3 1/2 years?
What you have in red letters, for the sake of argument, let's ussume you are correct, these events are parallel.
So then, the fact satan's little season follows the thousand years, do you think the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 is meaning during this little season which you say is also meaning the same thing in Revelation 12:12---because he knoweth that he hath but a short time?
In the event you do, Revelation 20:4 already contradicts that conclusion.
In the event you don't, Revelation 12:17---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ-----proves that satan's short time per Revelation 12:12 does indeed involve the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13.
How does one square these things then, because no matter how you look at it, your position is going to be contradicting something one way or another? The way to square things where there are no contradictions would be the following. What you have in red from the two passages above, where you conclude are parallel events, are not actually parallel events at all.
You say that as if it might be illogical for satan to do the same thing twice, at different times, with different people.
that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled(Revelation 20:3)----And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations(Revelation 20:7-8)
Is not that showing satan indeed does the same thing twice, but at different times, with different people?
No I don't believe the 1,000 = 3.5 years.
I believe the parabolic "1,000" years = the restoration of the Davidic monarchy through Christ. I believe the parabolic "1,000 years" is drawing from the the fact that there was a literal 1,000 years from the time of David till the time of Christ.
Acts 15:15 The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written: ‘After this I will return and rebuild the fallen tent of David Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it
For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,
Acts 2:30-31 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
The fulfillment of the David monarchy, of which the 1,000 years points to, through Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit results in:
1.) Christ reigning (of which I believe there is NO end)
1 corinthians 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
2.) those being born again by partaking in the First resurrection, which is Christ.
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Revelation 20:4 Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
3.) Apostles sitting on thrones judging Israel during the regeneration (sending of the spirit)
Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.
4.) those born (partaking in the 1st resurrection )again being a kingdom of priests, of which the 2nd death has no power over.
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
5.) Satan being bound by the work of Christ.
Mark 3:27 But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder his house.
Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
1 John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
Revelation 1:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
6.) Satan being cast out, and coming upon the world for a "little season"
John 12:31-32 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me
Revelation 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Romans 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Revelation 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
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