Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

INTJ-F

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"Then it pleased the apostles and ancients, with the whole church, to choose men of their own company, and to send to Antioch, with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas, who was surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren. [23] Writing by their hands: The apostles and ancients, brethren, to the brethren of the Gentiles that are at Antioch, and in Syria and Cilicia, greeting. [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment: [25] It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul: [26] Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. [27] We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves also will, by word of mouth, tell you the same things. [28] For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things: [29] That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well."


Looks like pork is fine

So where does it say pigs are food? God defined what food is and pigs are not included. Paul, as a Jew, never considered pigs as food so he was not telling them "pork is fine". If Paul said pork was fine, he would be a false teacher and should not be followed because it goes against what God said: eating pork is an abomination to Him. Since 'God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow' then eating pork (as well as shellfish) must still be an abomination to Him.
 
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ghendricks63

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So where does it say pigs are food? God defined what food is and pigs are not included. Paul, as a Jew, never considered pigs as food so he was not telling them "pork is fine". If Paul said pork was fine, he would be a false teacher and should not be followed because it goes against what God said: eating pork is an abomination to Him. Since 'God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow' then eating pork (as well as shellfish) must still be an abomination to Him.

Hmm...you believe Peter was a Jew right? Are you prepared to call him a false teacher too?

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Acts 10
 
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ghendricks63

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And of course from Titus 1...

9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 Even one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
 
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ghendricks63

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Or if you prefer the words of Jesus Himself...from Mark 7


18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19 For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) 20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’
 
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INTJ-F

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Hmm...you believe Peter was a Jew right? Are you prepared to call him a false teacher too?

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Acts 10

That was not about eating pigs and shellfish. If you read the entire passage and took it in context, you would see that it was about associating and evangelizing gentiles.

If Peter taught eating pork was fine, or if hiws vision said eating pork is fine, then it was a false vision and he is a false teacher. Messiah Yeshua said He will reject those who do not obey God even if they claim they are following Him:

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


So if I have to choose between Peter and Paul or Messiah Yeshua, I'll choose Yeshua. Don't misunderstand: I'm not saying that Peter and Paul were false teachers - I am saying that mainstream christianity (through the greco-roman mindset) has misinterpreted these passages in order to sin and violate what God clearly stated: Eating pork is an ABOMINATION and God does not change His mind about what is and what is not an abomination.
 
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ghendricks63

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Or if you prefer the words of Jesus Himself...from Mark 7


18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19 For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) 20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’

Then "Messiah Yeshua" it is.
 
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INTJ-F

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Mark 7
18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? 19 For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) 20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’

So where in the bible is pork (or shellfish) considered a FOOD??? Many manuscripts do not have In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.” although even if it does, there is nowhere in the bible or in Messiah Yeshua's teachings that claim pork is a food. If you read that passage IN CONTEXT you would see it was about the hand washing ritual and not about what they were eating.
 
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ghendricks63

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That was not about eating pigs and shellfish. If you read the entire passage and took it in context, you would see that it was about associating and evangelizing gentiles.

If Peter taught eating pork was fine, or if hiws vision said eating pork is fine, then it was a false vision and he is a false teacher. Messiah Yeshua said He will reject those who do not obey God even if they claim they are following Him:

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So if I have to choose between Peter and Paul or Messiah Yeshua, I'll choose Yeshua. Don't misunderstand: I'm not saying that Peter and Paul were false teachers - I am saying that mainstream christianity (through the greco-roman mindset) has misinterpreted these passages in order to sin and violate what God clearly stated: Eating pork is an ABOMINATION and God does not change His mind about what is and what nis not an abomination.

Yes God was using the food as an illustration for evangelizing all peoples. What you seem to be misunderstanding is that if the vision of the food was indeed false...then the comparison of evangelizing all peoples would also be false. God was not using a falsehood to illustrate a truth. :doh:
 
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ghendricks63

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So where in the bible is pork (or shellfish) considered a FOOD??? Many manuscripts do not have In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.” although even if it does, there is nowhere in the bible or in Messiah Yeshua's teachings that claim pork is a food. If you read that passage IN CONTEXT you would see it was about the hand washing ritual and not about what they were eating.

sigh...It seems as if you have determined to allign yourself with the circumcision crowd.

I think I'm through here.:doh:
 
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INTJ-F

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Yes God was using the food as an illustration for evangelizing all peoples. What you seem to be misunderstanding is that if the vision of the food was indeed false...then the comparison of evangelizing all peoples would also be false. God was not using a falsehood to illustrate a truth. :doh:

Nor would God teach something was okay when He previously called it an abomination to Him. God does not change. So if this vision was about pork being a food, it was a false vision and should not be in the bible. It's unfortunate so many use object lessons to sin and violate God's commandments.

Messiah Yeshua did not come to earth to die so we could eat pork.

You are obviously ignorant of the Old Testament and what God used as object lessons. He even told one of His prophets to go marry a prostitute as an object lesson to Israel. Does this mean believers are to marry unbelievers?
 
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INTJ-F

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sigh...It seems as if you have determined to allign yourself with the circumcision crowd.

I think I'm through here

Nope - I align myself with the Word of God and what HE teaches - not what the pagans teach. Throwing your attempted insults at me was totally uncalled for.
 
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ghendricks63

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Nor would God teach something was okay when He previously called it an abomination to Him. God does not change. So if this vision was about pork being a food, it was a false vision and should not be in the bible. It's unfortunate so many use object lessons to sin and violate God's commandments.

Messiah Yeshua did not come to earth to die so we could eat pork.

You are obviously ignorant of the Old Testament and what God used as object lessons. He even told one of His prophets to go marry a prostitute as an object lesson to Israel. Does this mean believers are to marry unbelievers?

Now I definitely know we are done here...:doh:
 
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INTJ-F

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Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


There are those who claim to be following Messiah Yeshua and doing His works but because those people are sinning / not obeying God, Messiah Yeshua will reject them in spite of what they claim to be doing for Him. Messiah wants OBEDIENCE to God. When He spoke this, the only bible was the Old Testament. This proves Yeshua was expecting His followers to obey what was in the Old Testament not what was to be written in the future (that would become the New Testament)

Any interpretations / teachings that came after Messiah must be in agreement with the Old Testament. What bondage there was that Messiah and the apostles spoke against were the extra burdens / traditions / teachings placed on the people by the Priests and the rabbis. Anyone who reads the bible straight through (Genesis - Revelation) and asks God for His truth can clearly see this.
 
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Incariol

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I am now laughing my rear end off. Have to respond for clarity.

I do not refute biblical teachings...I embrace them.

I refuted your perversions of biblical truth very resoundingly with several scriptural references that were both clear and directly on point.

Your insistance on clinging to the old covenant (and the ritual purity laws at that :p ) is your right. Embrace your bondage if you believe it will make you happy.

Later :wave:

Maybe its just me, but in every circumcision thread that comes up, why is it always the women who seem be all for it? Rather hard to take seriously considering WE are the ones whose genitals get mutilated. :yellowcard:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:1-6
 
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INTJ-F

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Maybe its just me, but in every circumcision thread that comes up, why is it always the women who seem be all for it? Rather hard to take seriously considering WE are the ones whose genitals get mutilated.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:1-6

And why is it those who reject God's teachings throw insults towards those who know the difference between obeying God and the bondage of the law that the rabbis placed on people?

This has nothing to do with "circumcision" or "noncircumcision" It has to do with OBEYING GOD. Even Messiah Yeshua said He will reject those who refuse to obey God even if they claim to be following Him and doing His works.

Jesus did not die so you could eat pork. Nor did He come to abolish the law but to fulfill it and to make it stronger.

There are just as many men who obey God as there are women so why are bringing up "it's always the women"

Refuse to obey God at your own risk. You have been warned and you have no excuse
 
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ghendricks63

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Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


There are those who claim to be following Messiah Yeshua and doing His works but because those people are sinning / not obeying God, Messiah Yeshua will reject them in spite of what they claim to be doing for Him. Messiah wants OBEDIENCE to God. When He spoke this, the only bible was the Old Testament. This proves Yeshua was expecting His followers to obey what was in the Old Testament not what was to be written in the future (that would become the New Testament)

Any interpretations / teachings that came after Messiah must be in agreement with the Old Testament. What bondage there was that Messiah and the apostles spoke against were the extra burdens / traditions / teachings placed on the people by the Priests and the rabbis. Anyone who reads the bible straight through (Genesis - Revelation) and asks God for His truth can clearly see this.

You proclaim we will be cast away in judgment because we disagree with you?? LOL You take the old covenant...I'll take the new. ;)

See Ya ... :wave:
 
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ricker

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So where in the bible is pork (or shellfish) considered a FOOD??? Many manuscripts do not have In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.” although even if it does, there is nowhere in the bible or in Messiah Yeshua's teachings that claim pork is a food. If you read that passage IN CONTEXT you would see it was about the hand washing ritual and not about what they were eating.

Then exactly what foods were unclean that are now are clean? (And Scripture to prove it)

I would like to know when your doctrine of not eating pork and shellfish actually started in Christian history. Believers for almost 2000 years have understood all meat to be clean (which is Biblical). When did this dogma of yours actually hatch?
 
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INTJ-F

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Believers for almost 2000 years have understood all meat to be clean (which is Biblical). When did this dogma of yours actually hatch?

This "dogma was hatched" when God said what to eat and not eat. Meats are clean - but as non-food (defined by God), pigs are not meat otherwise you would have to consider cats and dogs to be meat as well.

It was not until the roman take over of the church that eating pig and violating Shabbat (actually moving it to sunday) was acceptable to the "church"

God said to not eat pork or shellfish (along with other animals) so where exactly does the New Testament declare pigs to be meat and give the approval to eat them? If Messiah Yeshua taught this, He would have been declared a heretic and yet even the priests could find no fault with Him. If He taught against God's commandments, it would have been brought up during His trial. This shows the leaders He was talking about during the hand washing passage knew He was not saying it was okay to commit an abomination and eat pig.
 
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ricker

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This "dogma was hatched" when God said what to eat and not eat. Meats are clean - but as non-food (defined by God), pigs are not meat otherwise you would have to consider cats and dogs to be meat as well.

It was not until the roman take over of the church that eating pig and violating Shabbat (actually moving it to sunday) was acceptable to the "church"

God said to not eat pork or shellfish (along with other animals) so where exactly does the New Testament declare pigs to be meat and give the approval to eat them? If Messiah Yeshua taught this, He would have been declared a heretic and yet even the priests could find no fault with Him. If He taught against God's commandments, it would have been brought up during His trial. This shows the leaders He was talking about during the hand washing passage knew He was not saying it was okay to commit an abomination and eat pig.

Do you have any historical verification that "Rome" was instrumental in allowing the Christain church to eat "unclean" meat? When exactly did this happen?
 
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