Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

[PROPHECYKID]

It seems Peter forgot Jesus teaching. Mark 7 and Romans both refer to the diet laws being no longer applicable, though NT teaching specifically says dont judge on matters of diet. The dream it seems reminded Peter.

Would you guys consider context for a second. Here is Peter about to be invited to go to a Gentile man (a violation of their custom) and God gives him a vision to remind him he can eat anything? How does that relate to Peter's current position? NO. The vision was to change Peter's thinking so that he would be able to answer the call that he is about to receive to go to the gentiles.

Thus what this passage shows is that Peter indeed did not perceive Mark 7 to be talking about clean or unclean foods. If this was a reminder, Peter would have instantly remembered instead of saying that he has NEVER ate anything unclean. EVEN AFTER MARK 7, Peter nor any of the disciples ate unclean meats. You may ask how I know that, but imagine the noise the pharisees made over unwashed hands, imagine if they started eating pork! I Don't think the bible or any other historical writing would ever leave out the scene that would have taken place.

And the NT doesn't say don't judge on matter's of diet but the ceremonial, sacrificial system which involves meat and drink both in pertinence to diet and sacrifices on special days.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Posted by brightmorningstar http://www.christianforums.com/t7387109-post57706402/#post57706402
It seems Peter forgot Jesus teaching. Mark 7 and Romans both refer to the diet laws being no longer applicable, though NT teaching specifically says dont judge on matters of diet. The dream it seems reminded Peter.


Quote of Prophecykid
Would you guys consider context for a second. Here is Peter about to be invited to go to a Gentile man (a violation of their custom) and God gives him a vision to remind him he can eat anything? How does that relate to Peter's current position? NO. The vision was to change Peter's thinking so that he would be able to answer the call that he is about to receive to go to the gentiles.

Thus what this passage shows is that Peter indeed did not perceive Mark 7 to be talking about clean or unclean foods. If this was a reminder, Peter would have instantly remembered instead of saying that he has NEVER ate anything unclean. EVEN AFTER MARK 7, Peter nor any of the disciples ate unclean meats. You may ask how I know that, but imagine the noise the pharisees made over unwashed hands, imagine if they started eating pork! I Don't think the bible or any other historical writing would ever leave out the scene that would have taken place.

And the NT doesn't say don't judge on matter's of diet but the ceremonial, sacrificial system which involves meat and drink both in pertinence to diet and sacrifices on special days.

Prophecykid
I agree with your position on Peter’s vision. However, the scriptures that address the Pork and circumcision laws you did not address.

Even though there have been numerous scriptures, posted by member of this forum, that make it clear that we no longer will be rejected by God if we do not keep all 613 Torah laws these judgment people want to force their opinions on us even if their opinions are contradicted by the many scriptures reprinted below:


Galatians 5:1-6
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Romans 14:17
The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace. and joy.

Romans 14:2-3
For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.


Romans 14:6
Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God.

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.

Colossians 2
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

If you want to disregard the scriptures above and believe that you must keep all the Torah laws so you will not loose your salvation and be rejected by God then go for it. I am even printing a link to all the 613 Torah laws so that you can get busy trying to keep your salvation.

Link to all 613 Torah laws is below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot


Do you keep all the torah laws?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you know what it was like for Peter to even consider eating with a gentile.. the nightmare that came down in vision... God gave permission to eat with the gentile... that is the message that Peter got out of the vision..

Well, Peter being an OC Hebrew Isrelite/Judean under the OC Mosaic Law wouldn't be allowed to eat pig with the gentiles, so what is the problem

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

There is a theme you must notice here. Paul isn't really speaking against the law, but against the attempt of 1 to be justified through their keeping of the law. Many times Paul is speaking against the mentality of the Jews placing the law in a position it was never intended for. The law was never meant to save, or justify. Having said that God's commandments are important.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

It seems here that Paul is showing a difference between the law of circumcision and the commandments of God. I believe this is interesting as many try to claim that all of the laws are the same and in 1 bracket which is not true. God's 10 commandments bear a different purpose than the law of circumcision or the laws pertaining to sacrifices. They are not all the same.

Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Let me ask a question based on this scripture. Was Justification by the law before Christ came? Remember to justify means to make right, so was this the purpose of the law before Christ came?

Concerning Romans 14, you must begin at verse 1 and build upon it. What is Romans 1 taking about. Who is the one who is weak in the faith and why is it that he chooses to eat herbs and stay away from ALL meat. Is this speaking about vegetarianism and is he saying vegetarians have weak faith?

Colossians 2
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

Verse 16 is as a result of what happened in verse 14. If one doesn't understand what happened in verse 14, they cannot understand anything after.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

It is because the handwriting of ordinances were nailed to the cross that verse 16 is concluded. It means that the handwriting of ordinances would have spoken as it relates to meats, drinks, sabbaths, new moons and holy days. Also these things must be a shadow of things to come. I then quote Hebrews 10: 1, 8.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Hebrews 10 speaks of the shadows of things to come and must be looked at with Colossians 2: 14 - 17. Hebrews 8 - 10 deals with the difference between the old and new covenant and what is shown are the shadows vs the reality which is Jesus. Hebrews 9 and 10 tells us plainly that it was the sacrificial system and everything it contained and all the laws associated with it which was a foreshadow of Christ. Hebrews 9 says this:

Heb 9:9 Which was a figure [shadow] for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Remember that Colossians 2, it was the handwriting of ordinances that were blotted out. The law concerning ordinances and sacrifices, written by the hand of Moses was blotted out because all of the shadows which were in the old covenant were fulfilled by Christ. The ordinances are no more necessary. As it relates to meats and drinks. Meats are mentioned along with drinks. Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 speaks of clean and unclean meats and says nothing about drinks.

In both hebrews and colossians is says "meats and drinks" which means they are both a unit involved in the handwriting of ordinances. The dietary laws are also not involved with the system of ceremonies and ordinances because they are to do with everyday eating and drinking and since the days of Noah there was a difference between clean and unclean animals. However, in terms of sacrifices we see how meats and drinks coming into play. They were special meat and drink offerings that must be made according to the holy day celebrated. There were also times when they had to eat particular food during the feats days. It fits into the handwriting of ordinances.

If you want to disregard the scriptures above and believe that you must keep all the Torah laws so you will not loose your salvation and be rejected by God then go for it. I am even printing a link to all the 613 Torah laws so that you can get busy trying to keep your salvation.

Romans 13 tells us why we keep the law.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

It has nothing to do with Salvation. God is interested in our motives more so than what we actually do. If our intention is to please him because we love him, we will gain acceptance. If our intention is to earn our way into heaven, it will not work

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Well, Peter being an OC Hebrew Isrelite/Judean under the OC Mosaic Law wouldn't be allowed to eat pig with the gentiles, so what is the problem

Well actually the purpose of the vision was to change his mind that it was unlawful for a Jew to mingle with a gentile who were considered unclean. It was not really about eating with them. If they couldn't even mingle how would they even reach the point of eating together.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well actually the purpose of the vision was to change his mind that it was unlawful for a Jew to mingle with a gentile who were considered unclean. It was not really about eating with them. If they couldn't even mingle how would they even reach the point of eating together.

Didn't Paul mingle with the "gentiles"?
And again, where in the 10 commandsments is it expressly forbidden to eat pork or any other "unclean" meat

http://www.christianforums.com/t7538322/#post57022568
Romans 14:14,15 Did Paul declare all foods clean?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Didn't Paul mingle with the "gentiles"?
And again, where in the 10 commandsments is it expressly forbidden to eat pork or any other "unclean" meat

http://www.christianforums.com/t7538322/#post57022568
Romans 14:14,15 Did Paul declare all foods clean?

Yes Paul did. What is the problem? It was Jewish custom not to mingle with people of other nations. The vision was to change Peter's mindset so in verse 28 of Acts 10 he could say that the Lord has SHOWN him that he should call no man common or unclean.

There is nowhere in the 10 commandments to forbid eating anything but it is in the bible. They are health laws from the God who made all food, Just as he had made all fruits in the garden of Eden and said which ones not to eat from.

Paul cannot declare foods clean. He has no such authority, he did not make anything. What Paul can do and did, is to try to convince the Jews of Jesus and what he had done and of the new covenant where there is no more need for sacrifices. And where no one has to wonder about whether meats were offered to idols or not but they can freely buy meat in the market, understanding that an idol is nothing and that whereas before, when meat were offered to God or and idol it became unclean, not it is not so.

Understand that only CLEAN MEATS were offered to God and when Paul is speaking of clean vs unclean meats it is in reference to them being ceremonially unclean because of sacrifices. That is why Romans 14: 1 begins with Paul speaking of folks who would totally stay away from all meat, for fear that it was offered to idols and thus unclean, not because they are unclean to begin with. Romans 14 ties into I Cor 8 and 10. They all speak of the same theme.

When Jesus landed foot on this earth, the pig didn't change. Jesus didn't die to give us more food options. He didn't die for pigs, but for us.

 

[INTJ-F]

Romans 14:14,15 Did Paul declare all foods clean?

verse 14 is speaking of ceremonially unclean. Verse 15 is speaking of vegans and vegetarians (like Daniel and his friends)

If Paul had taught it was okay to eat swine and things God called an abomination to eat, he would have been called a false teacher and would have been rejected by his contemporaries.

 

[OldStudent]

Hello, my name Boris, I live Australia now but bfor was in Ruussia. Recently I become Christian (born agin) and I try to understand all things in Bible. My family never practice any religion, in Russia. So I not complete understand. My quesion is - why Chhristian not allowed eat pig? In Leviticuus 11 it say all animals like pig, kite, owl, moth 'detestable' which in my dictionary mean bad. SO: why god allow us to eat grasshoppr but not moth and pig? I like eating pig bvery much.

Thank you

Reason - Design.
God is our Designer and Creator. Since He engineered the "machine" He knows the best "fuel" for it.

If you read Genesis 1 and 2 you will notice that the diet God described to people was garden produce. After the Fall (Gen 3) it becomes apparent that many people developed a taste for flesh. Before the flood there was a sense of "clean" and "unclean" animals (Gen 7:2).

In Lev 11 God provides detailed guidance about "clean" and "unclean." God adds, "...If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee" Ex 15:26. (see also Deut 7:15; Deut 28:60)

Lev 7:23-25 also forbids eating the fat of the animals. The meat is not to be eaten with the blood (Gen 9:4 [long before any "Jewish" covenant]; Lev 7:26; and others). Note that in Acts 15:20 there is guidance to refrain from blood.

I suspect the "healthy living" advice you hear in Australia is quite similar to the States. The language is getting stronger that minimizing the use of meat is an asset to health. Digging deeper will uncover a set of health risks in "unclean" animals either absent or weaker in "clean" animals. As for the fat, we are now quite aware of problems associated with it like weight and circulatory system damage.

So God has provided guidance that you may have better health.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes Paul did. What is the problem? It was Jewish custom not to mingle with people of other nations. The vision was to change Peter's mindset so in verse 28 of Acts 10 he could say that the Lord has SHOWN him that he should call no man common or unclean...........

When Jesus landed foot on this earth, the pig didn't change. Jesus didn't die to give us more food options. He didn't die for pigs, but for us.

Then why don't the unbelieving Jews or Muslims of today believe that about Jesus

http://www.christianforums.com/t2885502-44/#post23233639
Why Christians do eat pork despite its...

 

[OldStudent]

Hi Boris, if your read the 14th chapter of Romans, you will see that we are allowed to eat whatever our faith enables us to eat. So if you believe it's alright to eat whatever you want, no one should condemn you for doing so. In short, I'm basically saying it's Ok to eat pig, since your faith allows you to.

I will start from the end, the conclusion, of Romans 14: "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" vs 23. We rather need to eat yet whatever, however, even that we eat is wasted if it is not of faith.

Now let's look at the first verse: "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." Each of us have "soft spots" in our faith that so we will not appreciate, understand, or accept certain teaching. If someone tries to jam it on me I will take injury from it. Feeding beans to a baby will cause problems.

Paul then gives a couple topics of "vain disputation" in the absence of supporting faith. He is not saying anything about the validity of worship or eating practices. He is giving guidance to knowledgeable people to dispense their knowledge wisely in a manner that will enhance, not sicken, faith. In the proper setting there is great value discussion of worship and its practice and health benefits of a healthful diet.

We do great damage to ourselves and understanding of God's plans and desires if we discard the Scriptures of Jesus and the apostles.

 

[ricker]

Do you know what it was like for Peter to even consider eating with a gentile.. the nightmare that came down in vision... God gave permission to eat with the gentile... that is the message that Peter got out of the vision..

Yes, and God wouldn't use a analogy that was untrue to make His point.

 

[ricker]

verse 14 is speaking of ceremonially unclean. Verse 15 is speaking of vegans and vegetarians (like Daniel and his friends)

Daniel wasn't a vegetarian. He as much as says later he usually ate meat.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Galatians 5:1-6
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.


There is a theme you must notice here. Paul isn't really speaking against the law, but against the attempt of 1 to be justified through their keeping of the law. Many times Paul is speaking against the mentality of the Jews placing the law in a position it was never intended for. The law was never meant to save, or justify. Having said that God's commandments are important.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

It seems here that Paul is showing a difference between the law of circumcision and the commandments of God. I believe this is interesting as many try to claim that all of the laws are the same and in 1 bracket which is not true. God's 10 commandments bear a different purpose than the law of circumcision or the laws pertaining to sacrifices. They are not all the same.

ProphecyKid

RIGHT!
We are in agreement on what you said above.

Romans 13 tells us why we keep the law.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

It has nothing to do with Salvation. God is interested in our motives more so than what we actually do. If our intention is to please him because we love him, we will gain acceptance. If our intention is to earn our way into heaven, it will not work

I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were one of those that thought that we have to keep all the 613 torah law in order to keep our salvation. If I misunderstood you then I apologize. My bad.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

ProphecyKid

RIGHT!
We are in agreement on what you said above.




I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were one of those that thought that we have to keep all the 613 torah law in order to keep our salvation. If I misunderstood you then I apologize. My bad.

I personally have not come across many folks who believe that, but anyone who doesn't go along with the popular teaching that the law is abolished, is labelled as believing that you must keep the law to be saved. I commend you for taking the time to understand where I was coming from as many others fail to do.

 

[chapmaned24]

I haven't read the whole thread, however, when Noah got off the Ark, what did God tell him about dietary laws? He told him, EAT EVERYTHING YOU WANT. No restrictions. Restrictions came about with the Laws for the Children of Israel (Jacob). This came about under the law of Moses. Abraham didn't have the law. Noah didn't have the law. We Christians are the sons and daughters of Abraham, who didn't have any of the law of Moses. Pork was only a restriction to the children of Jacob.

 

[Elder 111]

I haven't read the whole thread, however, when Noah got off the Ark, what did God tell him about dietary laws? He told him, EAT EVERYTHING YOU WANT. No restrictions. Restrictions came about with the Laws for the Children of Israel (Jacob). This came about under the law of Moses. Abraham didn't have the law. Noah didn't have the law. We Christians are the sons and daughters of Abraham, who didn't have any of the law of Moses. Pork was only a restriction to the children of Jacob.

Take a look at the same Noah and you will see that there were clean and unclean animals. Take a look at the beginning and you will see that there no animals for food. Take another look and you would see that with original diet man live also 1000 years and as there began to eat meat there only live 100 plus years. Does that indicate anything. Do you prefer a healthy life or not?

 

[chapmaned24]

Been there, done that...however, whether clean or unclean, there was NO restriction. Freedom, Baby! Eat anything you want! Healthy? What is the #1 cause of death in the world? Answer: Life.

Life will kill you, not food!

The original diet was NO MEAT at all. Vegetarians before Noah. If you think I am giving up a whopper or a quarter pounder with cheese...NEVER! Never gonna give up bacon either! Freedom Baby! Christians are FREE to eat anything they want, without it being a sin to God, just like Noah.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I personally have not come across many folks who believe that, but anyone who doesn't go along with the popular teaching that the law is abolished, is labelled as believing that you must keep the law to be saved. I commend you for taking the time to understand where I was coming from as many others fail to do.

So, then some of the Law (popularly termed the ceremonial law) was abolished but other parts (popularly termed the moral law) were not? Could you please show us where the Bible distinguishes between the two types and states that the one was abolished and the other was not?

Thanks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I personally have not come across many folks who believe that, but anyone who doesn't go along with the popular teaching that the law is abolished, is labelled as believing that you must keep the law to be saved. I commend you for taking the time to understand where I was coming from as many others fail to do.

Which begs the question:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7552108/
what is the whole law?