Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

visionary · Jun 4, 2011

MamaZ said:
LOL.. Really? on judgment day? We have the law of faith. For we walk by faith and not by sight. Only one way to the Father. It is not about eating pork of chicken or beef. We are not judged by what we eat.

IF He says so to you personally, then you are personally responsible to obey Him..

branchofthevine · Jun 5, 2011

What is the whole debate here? Jesus himself said (in Matthew 15:11)
11 It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.”

Food doesn't defile you, lest you make Jesus out to be a liar. No, food doesn't defile you. It is what you say that defiles you.

INTJ-F · Jun 5, 2011

What is the whole debate here? Jesus himself said (in Matthew 15:11)
11 Its not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.

Food doesn't defile you, lest you make Jesus out to be a liar. No, food doesn't defile you. It is what you say that defiles you.

Exactly where did God call swine and shellfish FOOD???

Isaiah 65
1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

INTJ-F · Jun 5, 2011

Originally Posted by MamaZ

LOL.. Really? on judgment day? We have the law of faith. For we walk by faith and not by sight. Only one way to the Father. It is not about eating pork of chicken or beef. We are not judged by what we eat.

Matthew 7

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

.

branchofthevine · Jun 5, 2011

Wow, INTJ-F, first off swine and shellfish are food, many people around the world eat it. Also Jesus said "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you".

Last time I checked swine and shellfish entered into the mouth. Why are you trying to enslave us to the Jewish System of Law that has ended?

You are directly opposing what Paul wrote as well
Romans 14:2-3
For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.

Romans 14:6
Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God.

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.

I will do as Paul says in Colossians 2:16
So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.

You have no right under the authority of God to condemn a person for what they eat whether it is swine or shellfish, or if it something like a vegetarian diet.
My fellow user, I plead with you to stop this foolishness, Paul wrote that "the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17)

sdmsanjose · Jun 6, 2011

Branchofthevine

Excellent post with scriptures to back up your position!

You have no right under the authority of God to condemn a person for what they eat whether it is swine or shellfish, or if it something like a vegetarian diet.

Not only does INTF not have the authority to condemn us he is wasting a lot of time trying to take away our freedom that Christ provided us. That time would probably be better used for him to try and keep all the 261-700 laws that he is still trying to push on to us.

INTF seems to love the Old Testament so I am posting an OT scripture below that proves that God changed the old covenant with a NEW Covenant that deals with the heart.

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

I think it is very dangerous to put such heavy burdens on people so that they are so scared of losing their salvation that they are so busy trying to be perfect that they miss the most powerful message that God has brought to mankind; the message of God’s love that allows for salvation and the absent of spiritual fear.

INTJ-F · Jun 6, 2011

Last time I checked swine and shellfish entered into the mouth. Why are you trying to enslave us to the Jewish System of Law that has ended?

strichnine enters the mouth too as does poisonous mucshrooms. I seriously doubt you are saying they are okay to eat?

God said swine and shellfish are not food. If anyone in the new testament said they are, then they are false teachers. I know all the verses people twist to justify their sin of eating what God calls an abomination.

Using a verse about vegans / vegetarians to justify eating what God says not to eat is justifying sin.

Messiah Yeshua said Torah has not ended. ITotah is not an "enslavement" it is the traditions of man that enslaves. If Paul taught to sin against Torah, then Paul was a false teacher. He never did though - what he wrote is twisted totally out of context by those who want to sin. Messiah Yeshua said He will reject those who violate Torah (IE: are lawless)

Matthew 7

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

sdmsanjose · Jun 6, 2011

Colossians 2
Alive in Christ
6 hTherefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 irooted and jbuilt up in him and kestablished in the faith, just las you were taught, abounding min thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by nphilosophy and oempty deceit, according to phuman tradition, according to the qelemental spirits1 of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For rin him the whole fullness of deity dwells sbodily, 10 and tyou have been filled in him, who is uthe head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also vyou were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by wputting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 xhaving been buried with him in baptism, in which yyou were also raised with him through faith in zthe powerful working of God, zwho raised him from the dead. 13 aAnd you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God bmade alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by ccanceling dthe record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 wHe disarmed the rulers and authorities2 and eput them to open shame, by ftriumphing over them in him.3
Let No One Disqualify You
16 Therefore let no one gpass judgment on you hin questions of food and drink, or with regard to ia festival or ja new moon or a Sabbath

INTJ-F
You have no right under the authority of God to condemn a person for what they eat whether it is swine or shellfish, or if it something like a vegetarian diet.

Click to expand...

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

branchofthevine said:
What is the whole debate here? Jesus himself said (in Matthew 15:11)
11 It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.”

Food doesn't defile you, lest you make Jesus out to be a liar. No, food doesn't defile you. It is what you say that defiles you.

When Yeshua said "food" it does not encompass stuff that pagans eat, it still is what Yeshua [God] said on Mount Sinai was "food" ... and the "unclean" part is unwashed...

Nik0s · Jun 6, 2011

visionary said:
When Yeshua said "food" it does not encompass stuff that pagans eat, it still is what Yeshua [God] said on Mount Sinai was "food" ... and the "unclean" part is unwashed...

Why then would Jesus say "........thus purifying all foods?" if he was talking about Kosher food only? It seems to me you are desperately clinging to this tradition unnecessarily.

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

Nik0s said:
Why then would Jesus say "........thus purifying all foods?" if he was talking about Kosher food only? It seems to me you are desperately clinging to this tradition unnecessarily.

"all foods" is still those things that qualify as food.. as you say "kosher"... like I said, the rituals used to purify were rigorous, and today you can still see the Jewish "kosher" mark on food in the marketplace to help make it easier to identify those foods that specially prepared... without the mark then you will have to do the purification process yourself... as Act 15 instructs... 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality..

And these were just a minimal of requirements... which today are ignored by a lot of Christians.... how many of you like blood in your steak?

Nik0s · Jun 6, 2011

visionary said:
"all foods" is still those things that qualify as food.. as you say "kosher"... like I said, the rituals used to purify were rigorous, and today you can still see the Jewish "kosher" mark on food in the marketplace to help make it easier to identify those foods that specially prepared... without the mark then you will have to do the purification process yourself... as Act 15 instructs... 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality..

And these were just a minimal of requirements... which today are ignored by a lot of Christians.... how many of you like blood in your steak?

I honestly don't see how you are able to reconcile the scripture I quoted with observing the old Jewish dietary laws. Playing Devil's advocate here, even if you're right and Jesus was only referring to "food" Jews could eat (no scriptural or Patristic backing BTW) why are the elaborate Kosher rituals still necessary? Jesus fulfilled all the Old Jewish laws, he came to fulfill the law. There is no reason to keep the Jewish laws anymore.

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

Nik0s said:
I honestly don't see how you are able to reconcile the scripture I quoted with observing the old Jewish dietary laws. Playing Devil's advocate here, even if you're right and Jesus was only referring to "food" Jews could eat (no scriptural or Patristic backing BTW) why are the elaborate Kosher rituals still necessary? Jesus fulfilled all the Old Jewish laws, he came to fulfill the law. There is no reason to keep the Jewish laws anymore.

Please make a distinction between God's laws on "food" and the Jewish laws... There is a difference... and "fulfilling" is active .. part of the Messiah's daily living requirements to be a Messiah... not that it changes the law itself.

Nik0s · Jun 6, 2011

visionary said:
Please make a distinction between God's laws on "food" and the Jewish laws... There is a difference... and "fulfilling" is active .. part of the Messiah's daily living requirements to be a Messiah... not that it changes the law itself.

What difference? Were the Priests and Jesus not discussing the laws found in Leviticus in the Scripture I quoted? You are correct the law did not change, Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. Again, there is no patristic or scriptural backing for what you claim.

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

Nik0s said:
What difference? Were the Priests and Jesus not discussing the laws found in Leviticus in the Scripture I quoted? You are correct the law did not change, Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. Again, there is no patristic or scriptural backing for what you claim.

No the Pharisees and Yeshua were discussing the traditions.. in this case the washing of hands.

Mark 7:3
(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders.

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

branchofthevine said:
What is the whole debate here? Jesus himself said (in Matthew 15:11)
11 Its not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.

Food doesn't defile you, lest you make Jesus out to be a liar. No, food doesn't defile you. It is what you say that defiles you.

OK... back up to the whole thing that started this mess...

Matthew 15
That Which Defiles
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They dont wash their hands before they eat!

.... and Yeshua's response...

Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.[c]

ghendricks63 · Jun 6, 2011

visionary said:
OK... back up to the whole thing that started this mess...

Matthew 15
That Which Defiles
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They dont wash their hands before they eat!

.... and Yeshua's response...

Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.[c]

And of course further on down in chapter 15 where Jesus actually explained what He meant He stated this...

16 Are you still so dull? Jesus asked them. 17 Dont you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

visionary · Jun 6, 2011

ghendricks63 said:
And of course further on down in chapter 15 where Jesus actually explained what He meant He stated this...

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’”

and....?? were not the pharisee's involved in the outward appearances rather than the heart of the matter... so this still does not have anything to do with what is "kosher" food to eat.

PROPHECYKID · Jun 6, 2011

ghendricks63 said:
And of course further on down in chapter 15 where Jesus actually explained what He meant He stated this...

16 Are you still so dull? Jesus asked them. 17 Dont you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

People always tend to miss the point and draw their own conclusions based on what their hearts desire is. The exchange between Jesus and the pharisees was started when they accused his disciples of eating Bread (food) with unwashed hands, making it unclean (according to what they believed). It was not about which meat is clean and which is not.

Out of the clean foods already eaten the pharisees believed, that if you eat any of them without washing your hands it will defile you. They are not including foods already deemed unclean in this conversation. That is out of the question. Understand that what makes the food clean or unclean in this case according to the pharisees, is whether your hands were washed or not, and not whether they bible says it is unclean or not. Jesus' answer must be taken in this context. It matters not if your hands were not washed because the man's heart is what defiles him.

I want you to tell Eve that she could eat any fruit of the garden even though God said not to. Do you really think there was something in the fruit? The whole issue is with obedience really. If God says don't eat and you do then you have a problem.

Let me just ask you this. Could man be defiled by food before Jesus came? If no then what was the point of Jesus telling them not to eat those things. If yes then what change did Jesus make to the pig (for instance) which suddenly made it clean?

sdmsanjose · Jun 6, 2011

Colossians 2
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

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