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Why Catholic and not Orthodox?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by gurneyhalleck1, Jan 27, 2012.

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  1. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Make Christian Forums Great Again

    Eastern Orthodox
    Brother Warrior,

    Thank you for taking some time to actually talk instead of get into a defensive posture and think I'm an orc pounding at the gate. It's nice to know someone cares enough to seek a dialogue and not a cage match WWF style.

  2. JesusIsTheWay33

    JesusIsTheWay33 Guest

    I can certainly understand your frustration, and at times I've shared it with many of these elements (though I've been fortunate enough not to experience most of them in the same place).

    From my perspective, though, a few points occur:

    1. It isn't about me and what I think.
    2. Who said the liturgy (or being in the Church, for that matter) should be easy? (As parents are wont to say: offer it up!)
    3. The essential question is: which Church holds to the true Faith? Everything else can be suffered and offered up for that: the Kingdom is like a pearl of great price...

    I agree that it's "unnecessary and sad" to strip the liturgy of its beauty, and I know just how painful such Masses can be, and how hard it is to pray in those circumstances. But the beauty of the liturgy is for God, not for us (even though it can be so hard to pray when what is around us is sheer banality).

    With that said, you appear to have made up your mind to leave the Catholic Church, so I'm puzzled as to what this thread is about. Perhaps you're asking "what reason is there for me to stay?", which is a perfectly reasonable question. The only answer I can offer is: because it's true. Because the keys were handed to Peter. I'm not sure there is another answer worth the name.

    Rome was the place of martyrdom of both St Peter and St Paul. This has traditionally been te clinching factor for Rome.

    It is also worth noting that the Patriarch of Antioch who can claim legitimate historical succession is in communion with Rome, after the Patriarch of Constantinople (Jeremias III) declared the election of Cyril VI Tanas (in 1724) to the Patriarchal throne of Antioch invalid and excommunicated him on dubious grounds, and ordained a Greek monk first priest and then bishop and appointed him Patriarch in his place. The majority who followed Cyril came into communion with Rome, while the minority who followed Sylvester remained with Constantinople.

    There are two things which this illustrates, I think: the first is the degree to which the quarrel between Orthodox and Catholic is a quarrel between Rome and Constantinople (since both sides have patriarchs of Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, not necessarily related to the actual historical succession of patriarchs*).

    The second is that Constantinople has historically claimed just as much authority over other bishops and patriarchs as Rome has, and been willing to exercise it, to boot.

    If you want to become Orthodox, then good luck to you. But look carefully at both what Orthodoxy is now, and what it has been historically, in detail, first. Because the sales pitch for any church (or anything else, in fact) is always half the story.

    (*Alexandria can clearly be seen to have its historical continuation in the Coptic Orthodox Church; as such, both Orthodox and Catholic Patriarchs may be seen to be "uniate", as they were set up subsequently; the Greek Patriarchate of Jerusalem claims to be the original historical succession; the Melkites I have covered above. Far from "four against one" as it tends to be painted, with Rome the lone dissenter from four patriarchates, it's more like two versus two, with one on-looker.)
  3. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

    Since past, private conversations continue to be referenced and misquoted, and since I'm being singled out for attacks when I have genuinely tried to talk about the issues, I hope the mods will close this thread. There's nothing sincere about it.
  4. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist Still striving for health Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter


    Closing for review

    Edit to add that this thread is staying closed. Debate against Catholic doctrine is not allowed in this particular forum.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
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