Why Catholic (And Not Just Christian)?

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

 

[bbbbbbb]

I Corinthians 1:10 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

 

[tdidymas]

One time I asked someone if they were a Christian, and they said, "No. I'm Catholic." Then I said, "What's the difference?" And they walked off.
TD

 

[Albion]

Hard to know just what that person might have been thinking.

 

[Fidelibus]

One time I asked someone if they were a Christian, and they said, "No. I'm Catholic." Then I said, "What's the difference?" And they walked off.
TD

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

Just a reminder....it is a proven by historical documention that the Catholic Church is the world’s longest living institutional testimony to Christianity with a currant membership of 1.2 billion, worldwide. (thats one fifth of the worlds pop.) That's more than all of those I listed above....combined! Not only that, you have to keep in mind that the name Christian predates "all" Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium.

However.....the word Catholic on the other hand was used by the year 110 A.D. to distinguish the Church of the Apostles from heretical teachings. St. Ignatius of Antioch, was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. The Church historian Theodoret says Ignatius was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, the apostle, who was the first bishop of Antioch before returning to Rome.

Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluable information about the early Church. He was the first to document the term "Catholic" in its current form to describe the Church.

Now as for me, if somebody ask me if I am Christian? My simple answer is "Yes.... I am a Catholic Christian!"

 

[bbbbbbb]

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

Just a reminder....it is a proven by historical documention that the Catholic Church is the world’s longest living institutional testimony to Christianity with a currant membership of 1.2 billion, worldwide. (thats one fifth of the worlds pop.) That's more than all of those I listed above....combined! Not only that, you have to keep in mind that the name Christian predates "all" Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium.

However.....the word Catholic on the other hand was used by the year 110 A.D. to distinguish the Church of the Apostles from heretical teachings. St. Ignatius of Antioch, was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. The Church historian Theodoret says Ignatius was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, the apostle, who was the first bishop of Antioch before returning to Rome.

Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluable information about the early Church. He was the first to document the term "Catholic" in its current form to describe the Church.

Now as for me, if somebody ask me if I am Christian? My simple answer is "Yes.... I am a Catholic Christian!"

I can't speak for others, but I self-identify as a Christian without any modifiers. That usually perplexes folks greatly and they keep digging until they can find a stereotype for me. I remember a conversation with a Catholic chap once. After much questioning he decided that I was an Evangelist! I have been called much worse than that.

 

[Fidelibus]

I can't speak for others, but I self-identify as a Christian without any modifiers.

Hmmm... Cant help but notice that you listed yourself as a "Non-Denom"

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hmmm... Cant help but notice that you listed yourself as a "Non-Denom"

I had no choice in that. It was that or "Christian: Disciples of Christ, Churches of Christ, Christian Churches"

 

[Albion]

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

That seems to be a different situation, however. In the other one, the person is asked if he is a Christian, not "What is your religion?"

Were a Baptist or Lutheran, etc. to be asked if he is a Christian, I would think it very rare that he would correct that by saying "No, I'm a Lutheran."

Just a reminder....it is a proven by historical documention that at the Catholic Church is the world’s longest living institutional testimony to Christianity

That is what we call a "functional myth." It builds loyalty among the membership, but the historic facts can be read to mean that several other denominations might actually be the oldest. Better to stick to saying your church is the largest, if you need something other than just claiming that it is correct in its beliefs.

 

[Phil 1:21]

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

Pssst...not all of us do that.

 

[tdidymas]

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

Just a reminder....it is a proven by historical documention that the Catholic Church is the world’s longest living institutional testimony to Christianity with a currant membership of 1.2 billion, worldwide. (thats one fifth of the worlds pop.) That's more than all of those I listed above....combined! Not only that, you have to keep in mind that the name Christian predates "all" Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium.

However.....the word Catholic on the other hand was used by the year 110 A.D. to distinguish the Church of the Apostles from heretical teachings. St. Ignatius of Antioch, was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. The Church historian Theodoret says Ignatius was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, the apostle, who was the first bishop of Antioch before returning to Rome.

Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluable information about the early Church. He was the first to document the term "Catholic" in its current form to describe the Church.

Now as for me, if somebody ask me if I am Christian? My simple answer is "Yes.... I am a Catholic Christian!"

Denominations are simply a way of saying that we are Christians, and additionally we believe a certain set of teachings because we read the Bible that way, and that we worship in a certain style or range of styles. In other words, doctrine and practice. It is an acknowledgement that there are differences in beliefs and practices among Christians. It's not much different among the Roman churches, since you have such denominations as "Ignatius," "Aquinus," "Mary," "Augustine," "Jesuit," "Old Catholic," etc. ad infinitum in the church names (denominations), who follow certain threads of teachings and practices from those ancients or about those ancients.

The difference between that and the apostle Paul's rebuke in 1 Corinthians is attitude. The question has to do with what kind of attitude do we exhibit in calling ourselves what we do. Is it an attitude of unity in which we are willing to work together to the same goals despite our varied beliefs on minor issues, or despite our various interpretations of scripture? Or is it an attitude of prejudice and unwillingness to work together? In that case, it would be factious. We all struggle with this attitude and that is part of our walk of faith, is to believe that God is working in our hearts to produce love which exhibits the right attitude.

We are Christians not because of certain doctrines or practices we adhere to. If that's the case, then there is no hope for unity. We are Christians because we believe in Christ and obey Him, regardless of what dogmas and/or liturgy we think is right for understanding and worshiping God.

So then, we are all part of the Universal Church of Jesus Christ, if our faith is Biblical and genuine. Naming denominations is merely a way of being honest as opposed to being secretive about what we believe - laying down our "cards on the table" so to speak. Since you distinguish yourself as a "Catholic Christian," are you not doing the same thing?

But when you say "you Baptists, Presbyterians," etc., are you not distinguishing yourself? Are you not setting yourself apart from "us"? Are you not being factious yourself, even if only in the words you use? Or, is your phrase "Catholic Christian" a way of countering the factious attitude? Do you consider "us" (Protestants) just as much Christian as yourself, and are willing to work with us to the same goals that Christ commanded us to work toward?

That there is factious attitudes prolific among Catholics and Protestants alike is evident. I would like to point out that Vatican I resulted in a very strong factious attitude among Catholics. It was Vatican II that the pope called Protestants "brothers" which changed the whole attitude and greatly relieved the tension between the two groups. Therefore, attitude of the authority in the institution is a significant contribution to unity or the lack thereof.

When Jesus comes to rule, all things will be set right.
TD

 

[Fidelibus]

That is what we call a "functional myth."

You can call it what you want, but it still dosen't change the history of Christianity. Besides yourself, who is this we you speak of?

It builds loyalty among the membership, but the historic facts can be read to mean that several other denominations might actually be the oldest.

"Can be?" "might be?" Could you show which other Christian group that can trace itself to the original group that Jesus left other than the Catholic Church?

Better to stick to saying your church is the largest, if you need something other than just claiming that it is correct in its beliefs.

What if I were to show you that there are reputable non-Catholic institutions that disagree with you? Say.... like the Encyclopedia Britannica for example:

"The Roman Catholic Church traces its history to Jesus Christ and the Apostles."

source- www.britannica.com/topic/Roman-Catholicism


The history of Christianity is what it is Albion, no matter how much you or other non-Catholics dis-like or disagree with it.

 

[Albion]

You can call it what you want, but it still dosen't change the history of Christianity.

Of course it does not, but when the facts of history are bent here and there in order to make one denomination seem to be what is not clear from history, doing that serves a certain purpose. That's why it is a functional myth.

It can, with only a slight modification, be used by the Mormons, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Jehovahs Witnesses and others just as well as by the Roman Catholic Church.

"Can be?" "might be?" Could you show which other Christian group that can trace itself to the original group that Jesus left other than the Catholic Church?

I alluded to that in the comment above. If you want to know the storyline as given by any one of them or by another, let me know.

The Roman Catholic Church traces its history to Jesus Christ and the Apostles."
source-www.britannica.com/topic/Roman-Catholicism

Of course it "traces its history to" the Apostles. All sorts of other churches trace their history to Christ and the Apostles, too! Thats what I have been telling you!
And they all cite some facts or inferences taken from the historical record in order to justify their respective claims.

The history of Christianity is what it is Albion, no matter how much you or other non-Catholics dis-like or disagree with it.

and it is what it is no matter how much Catholics dislike or disagree with it, too.

 

[Major1]

I can't speak for others, but I self-identify as a Christian without any modifiers. That usually perplexes folks greatly and they keep digging until they can find a stereotype for me. I remember a conversation with a Catholic chap once. After much questioning he decided that I was an Evangelist! I have been called much worse than that.

I can not think of anything that I have NOT been called.

The one I liked the best came from an individual who called me a "right wing Biblical Christian terrorist".

 

[Major1]

We Catholics could ask the same thing TD. Why do you Baptists, or Lutherans, Anglican, Methodists, Quakers, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Non-Denominationals, ect, ect, use those words to identify themselves in stead of simply saying...."Christian?"

Just a reminder....it is a proven by historical documention that the Catholic Church is the world’s longest living institutional testimony to Christianity with a currant membership of 1.2 billion, worldwide. (thats one fifth of the worlds pop.) That's more than all of those I listed above....combined! Not only that, you have to keep in mind that the name Christian predates "all" Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium.

However.....the word Catholic on the other hand was used by the year 110 A.D. to distinguish the Church of the Apostles from heretical teachings. St. Ignatius of Antioch, was a disciple of St. John, along with St. Polycarp. The Church historian Theodoret says Ignatius was consecrated bishop by St. Peter, the apostle, who was the first bishop of Antioch before returning to Rome.

Ignatius was martyred in Rome under Emperor Trajan's rule. It was during the journey to Rome that he wrote his famous letters that contain invaluable information about the early Church. He was the first to document the term "Catholic" in its current form to describe the Church.

Now as for me, if somebody ask me if I am Christian? My simple answer is "Yes.... I am a Catholic Christian!"

Largest is correct but not "oldest".

Historically the early believers were called Messianics (Christians) and this first happened in Antioch (Acts 11:26). At that time they had nothing to do with Rome. You will find no reference to a Roman Catholic Church in scriptures.

The word catholic is derived from the Greek kattholikos, meaning universal. The latin is catholicus. Examining the Greek kata is according to and holos is whole.

Basically it means that it is universal in extent and encompassing all, hence universal. Most are unfamiliar with the term meaning universal.

Today when a person says they are Catholic is usually denotes a member of the Roman Catholic Church rather than a universal believer.

Historically the Roman Catholic Church was not the first 'church' as the word church was ekklesia meaning the called out ones.

Today when you say church people usually assume one is speaking of an edifice for public and especially Christian worship whereas others say it the whole body of believers in Christ/Messiah.
Also when you say church people usually assume one is speaking of an edifice for public and especially Christian worship whereas others say it the whole body of believers in Christ/Messiah.

The early believers, the 120 in the upper room, were mainly Jews (disciples, Apostle Paul and others).

They were an irritant to the other Jews in the synogogue because they constantly preached that Jesus Gr. (Yeshua in Hebrew/Aramaic) of Nazereth is the Messiah.

To make a long story short they were called Christians (derived from Greek) but in Hebrew it was Messianics. It was recorded in Acts 11:26 when they were first called this.

One has to understand that in the tradition of Judaism (biblical Judaism not contemporary Judaism) it was acceptable to have differances of opinion on a variety of spiritual issues, so the Messianics were not expecting to be exiled from the synogogue.

The first congregational leader in Jerusalem of the Messianics was the brother of Jesus/Yeshua who is known as James.


Read more: What's The Oldest Sect Of The Christian Religion?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I can not think of anything that I have NOT been called.

The one I liked the best came from an individual who called me a "right wing Biblical Christian terrorist".

I like that. I have not been called that - yet. Once I had a Muslim insist that I was a Roman Catholic priest in disguise.

 

[Major1]

I like that. I have not been called that - yet. Once I had a Muslim insist that I was a Roman Catholic priest in disguise.

LOL...…….It was actually a Muslim who called me that. Can you image that????

 

[bbbbbbb]

LOL...…….It was actually a Muslim who called me that. Can you image that????

That is really funny!

 

[Fidelibus]

Denominations are simply a way of saying that we are Christians, and additionally we believe a certain set of teachings because we read the Bible that way, and that we worship in a certain style or range of styles.

As a sola scripturists TD, (the bible alone) could you show where the Bible uses the word "Denominations?" Keep in mind, Scripture/ Jesus promised us that His Church would remain "One"/ "Without divisions", and He and the Holy Spirit would remain with It until the end of the world:

Jn 10:16 - there will be one fold and one shepherd.
Eph 4:3-6 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father
Rom 16:17 - I urge that there be no divisions among you
1Cor 1:10 - I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart thinking one thing
Rom 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Jn 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
Jn 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
1Cor 12:13 - in one spirit we are baptized into one body
Rom 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Eph 4:4 - one body, one Spirit, called to be one hope
Col 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body
Mt 16:18-19 - upon this rock I will build my Church (singular)
Mt 18:17 - tell it to THE Church; if he refuses to listen even to THE Church (singular)

To quote fellow Catholic Christian and poster "Root if Jesse."

"If a branch falls from the tree, is the tree still a tree? IT is actually from the same seed, thus it is the same tree. Hence, no, the Catholic Church isn't a denomination."

IOW....Denominations is a word to discribe the thousands of different Protestant branches of Christianity.

[quote[In other words, doctrine and practice. It is an acknowledgement that there are differences in beliefs and practices among Christians.[/quote]

You forgot the word "disagreements." And with all these disagreements among the different branches of Protestantism, by who's or what Authority determines which beliefs or practices are correct, and who's is incorrect?

It's not much different among the Roman churches, since you have such denominations as "Ignatius," "Aquinus," "Mary," "Augustine," "Jesuit," "Old Catholic," etc. ad infinitum in the church names (denominations), who follow certain threads of teachings and practices from those ancients or about those ancients.

You couldn't be more wrong. First off, The "Roman Catholic Church" is one of twenty three "Rites" of the Catholic Church, all in full communion with the Pope. Secondly, none of the the ones you listed are on the list of twenty three. However, there are Religious Orders that have a rich history and are important and integral components of the Catholic Church, such as...the Franciscans, Benedictines, Augustinians, Dominicans, Missionaries of Mercy, (St. Mother Teresa's Order) and the Carmelites to name a few.

 

[Fidelibus]

Of course it does not, but when the facts of history are bent here and there in order to make one denomination seem to be what is not clear from history, doing that serves a certain purpose. That's why it is a functional myth.

It can, with only a slight modification, be used by the Mormons, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Jehovahs Witnesses and others just as well as by the Roman Catholic Church.

However, with the exception of the EO, all of these other Churches/Sects where unheard of prior to the Reformation. (a couple of them only in the past hundred or so years)

I alluded to that in the comment above. If you want to know the storyline as given by any one of them or by another, let me know.

Sure, (again with the exception of the EO), I'd like to see the chronology of these denominations/sects that claim to be able to trace itself prior to the Reformation, and all the way back to Jesus and the Apostles, or the Early Church Fathers.

Of course it "traces its history to" the Apostles. All sorts of other churches trace their history to Christ and the Apostles, too! Thats what I have been telling you! And they all cite some facts or inferences taken from the historical record in order to justify their respective claims.

And of course all these other churches and sects can also show they follow the same beliefs as the Early Church Fathers that were the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, etc. correct? You know, the ones like St. Clement, that is actually mentioned in the bible. (Philippians 4:3) And the same ECF like St Ignatius of Antioch, St Justin Martyr, St Irenaeus, ect. that held to the Real Presence of Jesus as the Catholic Church does today.


And the same ECF like St. Irenaeus, St. Justin Martyr, St. Epiphanius of Salamis, ect. that held the beliefs of The Blessed Virgin Mary as the catholic Church does today. I could go on, but I think you get my jest. So please, by all means, I look forward to see all the ancient documentations of these denominations/sects tracing themselves back pre- Reformation.