Why can't God save people after they die?

[InterestedAtheist]

OK.


We do know a lot more about heaven where we will spend the rest of our lives.

Do you? What do you know about heaven?
Where is it?
How big is it?
Who is there?
What will you do there?
What will it be like there?

 

[bling]

If God is omnipotent, and all wise, why can't he come up with a way to save people who changed their minds after they died?

Even being “omnipotent”, does not mean God can do stuff that cannot be done. For example: God cannot make another Christ, since Christ is part of deity and has always existed.

There are some things that God just cannot do, the one important to us is instinctively create us with Godly type Love, since a knee jerk reaction type of love would be robotic type Love. God will also not force his love on us since that would be unloving on God’s part (there has to be reasonable alternatives to make it a choice [the perceived pleasures of sin]). The easiest way for us to get this Love is through accepting it as a pure charitable gift. The problem being humans (due in part to the needed survival instinct) do not like accepting Charity from a Giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.



This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4).



Since God is “Love” and part of the definition of Godly type Love is unselfishness God is totally unselfish? If God is totally unselfish, He will do and allow all He can to help those that are just willing to accept His help fulfill their objective (Love). That “all” includes: Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kind, hell, evil, and even sin.

Will we know people do not like to accept charity especially from a giver that paid a huge price? People will try to earn the gift, pay back the gift, be more deserving of the gift than the next person or just say they got the gift without having to accept it. The easiest and only way to accept the gift is through accepting God’s forgiveness (this is after you have sinned) since forgiveness is charity, grace, mercy Love. AND Jesus has taught us “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

The problem is God wants us to be like He is (God’s Love is compelling Him to create beings that can Love like He Loves and made these beings for the sake of those that will accept His Love).

If we continue to refuse God’s Love and really do not want to Love unselfishly, where is there for us to go? Heaven is one huge Love feast so we would not be happy there and God wants us to be happy.

Again, the reason we have got to spend time on earth is to hopefully obtain this type of Godly type Love out of a free will choice with likely alternatives. Earth is the very best place to have and make the choice of accepting God’s Love and once you leave earth repeatedly refusing to accept Godly type Love, there is no better place or any other place you would do it out of a free will choice with likely alternatives.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Do you? What do you know about heaven?
Where is it?
How big is it?
Who is there?
What will you do there?
What will it be like there?

From a fellow Veteran, who did you pray to in the foxhole? And, thank you for your service.

There are some books on Heaven, I don't remember any of the titles or authors.
Somewhere it says God is rider of the clouds just like baal.
I already, put in an application for the drivers positions.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What proof is there that once someone sees Hell or eternal punishment that they will not repent?

Matthew 20:1-16
J.B. Phillips New Testament
But God’s generosity may appear unfair
20 1-7 “For the kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer going out early in the morning to hire labourers for his vineyard. He agreed with them on a wage of a silver coin a day and sent them to work. About nine o’clock he went and saw some others standing about in the market-place with nothing to do. ‘You go to the vineyard too,” he said to them, ‘and I will pay you a fair wage.’ And off they went. At about mid-day and again at about three o’clock in the afternoon he went and did the same thing. Then about five o’clock he went out and found some others standing about. ‘Why are you standing about here all day doing nothing?’ he asked them. ‘Because no one has employed us,’ they replied. ‘You go off into the vineyard as well, then,’ he said.

8-12 “When evening came the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the labourers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’ So those who were engaged at five o’clock came up and each man received a silver coin. But when the first to be employed came they reckoned they would get more, but they also received a silver coin a man. As they took their money they grumbled at the farmer and said, ‘These last fellows have only put in one hour’s work and you’ve treated them exactly the same as us who have gone through all the hard work and heat of the day!’

13-15 “But he replied to one of them, ‘My friend, I’m not being unjust to you. Wasn’t our agreement for a silver coin a day? Take your money and go home. It is my wish to give the latecomers as much as I give you. May I not do what I like with what belongs to me? Must you be jealous because I am generous?’

16 “So, many who are the last now will be the first then and the first last.”

 

[Daniel Marsh]

We can speed up our trip to Heaven by sending all the Police in a State on a long paid vacation including training as part of it from June 15, 2021 to September 15, 2021.

 

[BigV]

There are some things that God just cannot do,

Can not or will not? In the case of another Christ, I'll grant you your point.

However, in the case of eternal punishment, the same reasoning doesn't apply. For, as far as we know, nothing external to God compelled him to create Hell, right? And then, the rules on how people end up there were determined solely by this God. So, why can't this God amend his own rules? It's not like he is a stickler to the rules when it comes to other areas. For example, dietary laws were a big deal, before Jesus overruled them. In fact, Jesus not only overruled the dietary laws, but pretty much the whole of the Old Testament.

See, there is no reason God had to create an eternal Hell, is there? He could have decided to only torture people for a finite amount of time. But alas, he went with an eternal torture plan (assuming the majority of Christians have the right interpretation).

Notice also that God has no problems with resurrecting some people, such as Lazarus and that guy who fell asleep during Paul's preaching. Why couldn't he resurrect the people after they experience the horrors of Hell so that they can have a second chance?

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

How can we accept that God is love if he tortures people for eternity? If we accept this God as the God of love, what can't we accept as love? After all, the most evil people in history never tortured people for all eternity!

Will we know people do not like to accept charity

Well, I have no problems accepting $1bn dollars from Jeff Bezos. However, there is no evidence Jeff is willing to give me $1bn dollars. It's not that I have a problem accepting it. I have no reason to believe Jeff is

 

[Daniel Marsh]

We know that pork cooked wrong can get one sick. As for the other foods, I am guessing that they were used in worship of false gods.
I do not know this for sure, just guessing.

God's limitations are usually based in his complete nature. Along with love, there is justice, mercy and other things.

Would you want a guest in your home that hates you?

Based on Matthew 25 everyone is resurrected at final judgement.

As for temporary hell Catholics have a fine doctrine called Purgatory.

As for the rock too big to lift. Jesus before coming to earth created rocks and as man, he can not lift them with his muscles. This is just my warped sense of humour.

Who is the guy who wants to give away money? Does he even have the money? Is he a flat earther? If so, it would not even be worth talking to him. I am betting he is a nutcase like the flat earthers, who do not believe in real Science. Since, I was not there I have no clue how God created things.

 

[BigV]

We know that pork cooked wrong can get one sick.

What about undercooked lamb or beef or chicken or fish?

Would you want a guest in your home that hates you?

No, but if the homeowner will kill me unless I be their guest, I would not prefer their company either.

Does he even have the money?

google "jeff bezos" for more information.

 

[Andrewn]

No, but if the homeowner will kill me unless I be their guest, I would not prefer their company either.

Is the concept of hell the only reason you don't prefer God's company?

 

[BigV]

Is the concept of hell the only reason you don't prefer God's company?

I am having a conversation based on the assumption that a Christian God, as revealed in the Bible and as interpreted by the majority of his followers, does exist.

Hell would be one reason to doubt God's love.

 

[bling]

Can not or will not? In the case of another Christ, I'll grant you your point.

However, in the case of eternal punishment, the same reasoning doesn't apply. For, as far as we know, nothing external to God compelled him to create Hell, right? And then, the rules on how people end up there were determined solely by this God. So, why can't this God amend his own rules? It's not like he is a stickler to the rules when it comes to other areas. For example, dietary laws were a big deal, before Jesus overruled them. In fact, Jesus not only overruled the dietary laws, but pretty much the whole of the Old Testament.

See, there is no reason God had to create an eternal Hell, is there? He could have decided to only torture people for a finite amount of time. But alas, he went with an eternal torture plan (assuming the majority of Christians have the right interpretation).

First off: Christian do not all believe “Hell” is an eternal torture and I do not know what the majority thinks. It is described as a second death in many places and in contrast with eternal life. Scriptures also point out degrees of “punishment” for different sins (sins are not all the same).

Hell is not there to help the person going to hell, but it does help some who come to a believe in hell to not tarry in their decision to accept God’s charity, so hell is an external benefit for some people, who will not go there.

Notice also that God has no problems with resurrecting some people, such as Lazarus and that guy who fell asleep during Paul's preaching. Why couldn't he resurrect the people after they experience the horrors of Hell so that they can have a second chance?

Look if your choice is: “go back to hell or Love me and others”, which one would everyone choose?

Is that not the same as putting a big gun to your head and saying: “Love me or else?”

What type of “love” would a person who spent time in hell and came out with this choice, have for God?

For “hell” to have any help in motivating the person to not tarry, the person has to believe in the Christian Loving God, hell, judgement and one life on earth. That person with those believes is not going to be going to hell.

How can we accept that God is love if he tortures people for eternity? If we accept this God as the God of love, what can't we accept as love? After all, the most evil people in history never tortured people for all eternity!

Again, the idea of eternal torture is not found in a likely interpretation of scripture when studied.

I am glade you see hell as a deterrent to going there.

Well, I have no problems accepting $1bn dollars from Jeff Bezos. However, there is no evidence Jeff is willing to give me $1bn dollars. It's not that I have a problem accepting it. I have no reason to believe Jeff is

For Jeff Bezos to offer you $1 bn is not going to be a huge painful sacrifices for Jeff Bezos and you can certainly feel Jeff Bezos might gain some personal satisfaction out of giving you $1 bn and it is no big loss for him, since you can represent all the people he has taken advantage of throughout his life.

God on the other hand is by nature a totally unselfish, unconditional, sacrificial giver, wanting to shower you with unbelievable wonderful gifts. The greatest gift, being to become like God, Himself, in that you have this unbelievable, unselfish, unconditional, sacrificial Love for others. That Love would allow you to be happy in heaven, where there is only this Godly type Love. The problem is: this Love cannot be made instinctive to humans (robotic) like a knee jerk reaction, since that is not Godly type Love. And like I said above this Love cannot be forced on you like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. It can only be humbly accepted as pure charity, the very easiest way to do that is what we are taught in scripture and in our own experience: “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so if you understand and believe you have been unconditionally forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin you will automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love.)

Do you want to be Loved for the way you want others to perceive you to be?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What about undercooked lamb or beef or chicken or fish?

I know they ate Lamb and Fish. I have eaten raw fish with no problem.
Chicken would get one sick. I do not know if they ate Chicken or Beef.

 

[Tolworth John]

I am puzzled, if someone did not get saved on that specific date, then they can not get saved?

There are many competitions on TV, where one rings, texts, emails or writes in to by a certain date to be put in a draw to win the prize. But texts etc submitted after the closing date will not enter the draw but will be charged.
What don't you understand about closing date?
There is a closing date for salvation.

 

[Tinker Grey]

There is a closing date for salvation.

Why?

 

[Tolworth John]

Why?

Because when you die you face judgement. Death is the closing date I you are not already a Christian.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Because when you die you face judgement. Death is the closing date I you are not already a Christian.

That's not an answer. Why is it the case that you can't choose after death?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There are many competitions on TV, where one rings, texts, emails or writes in to by a certain date to be put in a draw to win the prize. But texts etc submitted after the closing date will not enter the draw but will be charged.
What don't you understand about closing date?
There is a closing date for salvation.

The closing date is Matthew 25:46 which happens after the final resurrection.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Because when you die you face judgement. Death is the closing date I you are not already a Christian.

How much time is between death and the final resurrection? For those who lived in the time of Jesus on earth, that gap has been almost 2,000 years now.

Unless, you hold to the eternalist viewpoint that when one dies they somehow step out of time and re-enters it at the judgement after the final resurrection.

 

[Tolworth John]

That's not an answer. Why is it the case that you can't choose after death?

It is the answer, as I mentioned in a much earlier post.
Hebrews 9:27 rules out any change after death.

 

[Tinker Grey]

It is the answer, as I mentioned in a much earlier post.
Hebrews 9:27 rules out any change after death.

But, why? The answer to "why is it appointed" cannot be "it's appointed."