Why can't all Christians be on the same page?

salamacum · May 5, 2014

"on the same page"?
Well, just look at these forums. It used to be labelled "bring Christians together" or something similar. Have you tried posting on another section? - seen how defensive people are?
Web-sites like this just reveal antagonisms. We have no idea about empathy or grace.

salamacum · May 5, 2014

Amazing thing to consider....
In the Garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve sinned and ate from the source of knowledge, what they did was....
They swapped OBEDIENCE for KNOWLEDGE.
If you call that knowledge DOCTRINE then we may have an important conversation here. Further wisdom is related to obedience not knowledge.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"

TheDag · May 5, 2014

salamacum said:
"on the same page"?
Well, just look at these forums. It used to be labelled "bring Christians together" or something similar. Have you tried posting on another section? - seen how defensive people are?
Web-sites like this just reveal antagonisms. We have no idea about empathy or grace.

some are so used to being attacked they see attacks that aren't there. Can't say I blame them for that. There is unfortunately a rather vocal minority who love to tell others how they are wrong.

GenetoJean · May 5, 2014

salamacum said:
"on the same page"?
Well, just look at these forums. It used to be labelled "bring Christians together" or something similar. Have you tried posting on another section? - seen how defensive people are?
Web-sites like this just reveal antagonisms. We have no idea about empathy or grace.

I post in other sections and dont have problems usually. I find that if I am polite, then usually, people are polite back. If I am posting in another section, especially one where I am a visitor, I make sure I follow the rules.

ValorWoman4Jesus · May 10, 2014

Peripatetic said:
Isn't it interesting how that happens? God is asking you to be a voice of reason in those areas that are sorely needed it in our culture today: unity, fellowship, compassion, tolerance, etc. It's sad how words like "tolerance" and "acceptance" are so charged with negative emotion and misconception among many Christians today that they've lost their actual meaning.

As difficult as the adversity no doubt is, you can take comfort in knowing that you are probably right where you need to be to help the cause of unity in your own humble way. I really appreciated your perspectives, by the way.

Thank you man!

bluemarkus · May 16, 2014

why cant all ppl look the same and like the same music?

ValorWoman4Jesus · May 17, 2014

bluemarkus said:
why cant all ppl look the same and like the same music?

Because then, they'd be a bunch of clones!

ValorWoman4Jesus · May 17, 2014

I embrace diversity. God is not looking for a universal church of clones. If anybody thought that's what I was after, you are mistaken. I am talking about everyone being in agreement with God's virtues and principles. Revelation 7:9 paints a beautiful picture of people from every language, tribe and nation worshipping Jesus with real respect, awe and adoration. Their hearts all embrace the same thing, Jesus ruling the universe. The universal church needs to be passionate through and through about bringing God's kingdom to earth. God's kingdom is righteousness, peace and joy coming to earth. It is also a paradise where everyone comes together corporately and works for peace, relationships where there is no strife, a world where there is no selfishness or pride, a place and essence of beauty. A place where everyone is truly loved, embraced and accepted and not rejected. A place with no poverty or war or sorrow. This is what the whole church should be fighting for!

Albion · May 17, 2014

salamacum said:
"on the same page"?
Well, just look at these forums. It used to be labelled "bring Christians together" or something similar. Have you tried posting on another section? - seen how defensive people are?.

Basically, you can't do it, not even in "fellowship" which is supposed to be allowed.

I've been told that they're intended to be free-fire zones for the members of that denomination in which they can say anything they want about other churches, etc. without fear of contradiction from any outsider.

It's a shame, too, because some of these other forums that I don't visit anymore sometimes have quite interesting discussions going that anyone might profit from.

ValorWoman4Jesus · May 17, 2014

Albion said:
Basically, you can't do it, not even in "fellowship" which is supposed to be allowed.

I've been told that they're intended to be free-fire zones for the members of that denomination in which they can say anything they want about other churches, etc. without fear of contradiction from any outsider.

It's a shame, too, because some of these other forums that I don't visit anymore sometimes have quite interesting discussions going that anyone might profit from.

Mmm Mmm Mmm! What has the church come to?

salamacum · May 18, 2014

Yes, you are dead right.
Look, on every important issue is eternal security. I am unable to make up my mind on this. I posted (arminian) bible verses on the semper reformanda site once and got a very prickly reaction.
From people who supposedly know their bible. A bit of verse-tennis or exposition or contextualisation would have been fine.
But, no, what happened was that a trolling accusation was made, and the only real reply was the restatement of the nature of God.

lismore · May 19, 2014

We might be at different stages but we're all on the same road!

pauluk3 · Jun 7, 2014

ValorWoman4Jesus said:
As a peacemaker, this confuses me as much as it disturbs me. The bible is proof that all of the members of the body of Christ are to be in unity. Here are some verses that support Christians being united and not divided.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:2-6
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Sadly, this is not what I am seeing in the body of Christ. In Galatians 6:1, it says that we are to restore fellowship to a loved one or fellow sister or brother who is sinning.

I am struggling with dealing with friends who are living in some sort of sin, but when I turn to the elders, whom are supposed to be unbiased ministers of reconciliation, they will tell me to turn against them as an act of responsible prudence, since "I don't need" such people in my life.

A true peacemaker will not be biased and tell one Christian to get rid of someone else who is a Christian because they are not fitting into "their" definition of righteousness.

I admit, I am selfish towards my closest friend and we have our spats and disagrements, and yes, I do not trust her 100%, yet I chose to stick by her and see her through without giving up on her and turning my back on her no matter what the cost, unless she does something blatantly dishonest. I know God has called me and my friend, who is also a very helpful nanny to our 4 year old son to stick together in unity.

Proverbs 15:22 states that if you surround yourself with many counselors, your plans will succeed. But Jeremiah 17:5 says we are cursed for trusting in man (and whose heart turns away from God.) I have been seeking God as wholeheartedly as can be expected in these crazy last days. I do put my trust and faith in the Lord more than anything or anyone, yet I feel as though I am not getting as far as I have been called to. I still revisit the fact that I need the cooperation of other members of the body of Christ to be my allies and be interested in helping me promote unity in the church including between me and my Christian friends, whom God has put into my life. What God has put together, let no man separate. It just doesn't talk about marriage.

In Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus gives options about how to deal with someone who sins in the church. Some people I see clearly however are abusing what it says in Matthew 18:17, treating people who are struggling with sin as pagans, thinking that they don't listen or care about the truth when they do care about what's right in their hearts. I know it's a challenge for Christian leaders to tell what's in the hearts of people who are having struggles.

However, I just don't see "kicking someone out of my fellowship" as an act of tough love as the appropriate answer when my friend(s) and I are having disagreements.

Galatians 6:1 encourages us to restore someone in sin to gentleness, but when I turn to an elder for assistance with a dispute I am having with a close Christian friend, it is drawn way out of porportion!

1 Thessalonians 5:14 also says to rebuke those in sin, but encourage the weak and be patient towards all. I don't see this hardly!
If Christians are supposed to be in tune with God and the Holy Spirit, why is it that they are still in disagreement with each other? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The very thing that I am passionate about, unity, fellowship and true friendship in the church, is also what's affecting me in my personal life.

God brings people into my life, yet also allows so called church elders to come in and disapprove of the friends I choose when I have a problem. Egads! We're supposed to restore them to fellowship, rebuking them where necessary, holding them accountable, but don't turn your back on them! True, when people are disobedient, we are to not associate with them, but too many in the church are judging fellows brothers and sisters as being disobedient where they are not.

Pray for me everyone! I am dealing with something that hits home for me. I will close with this last verse.
James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

This series will explain it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8ctfiEbjw&list=PL1C889ED74C82E57C&index=3

gerbilwoman · Jul 13, 2014

Everyone interprets things differently. I feel individuality is good. Plus it goes along with the free will God gave us.

Albion · Jul 13, 2014

salamacum said:
Yes, you are dead right.
Look, on every important issue is eternal security. I am unable to make up my mind on this. I posted (arminian) bible verses on the semper reformanda site once and got a very prickly reaction.
From people who supposedly know their bible. A bit of verse-tennis or exposition or contextualisation would have been fine.
But, no, what happened was that a trolling accusation was made, and the only real reply was the restatement of the nature of God.

But you are not a Calvinist or member of a Reformed church (from your icon), so you broke their rules...and in spades, by attacking a fundamental belief of the Reformed churches.

Personally, I feel that we go too far to squelch outsiders from participating on any denominational forum to which they do not belong by church membership, but you did go much further than engage in the "fellowship" posting that is supposedly allowed (but in practice is not).

So...welcome to the club.

salamacum · Jul 28, 2014

Attacking a fundamental belief - don't think so. It was, if I remember, a need on my part to see how 'problem verses' are handled by people for whom exposition is 'meat and drink'. The one denomination on these boards who seem are most equipped to handle scripture coolly and yet who seem most desirous of pulling up the drawbridge to avoid emotional threat.

Angelquill · Jul 30, 2014

Ruthie24 said:
I have a theory that all Christians who question the sect/faction of religion they belong too, who scratch their heads, who go to bed at night and wonder wth am I doing, who say to themselves, I don't want to tell people I'm struggling, but God I'm really struggling here, need to go back to the teachings of the 1st century church, what Jesus taught, what the apostles taught, the very very basics. Forget the dogma, forget the religious rule books and the conferences on this or that church teaching. Does Christ say it? What does he say? What does the Bible say? I mean, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY SAY? What does CHRIST REALLY SAY? This is what we need to go back too.

This is the issue with the divisions of the church, Jesus, the apostles, the disciples all considered certain cannon that is not in the Bible, but mentioned and alluded to IN the Bible. This is what people need to know. They are NOT getting the full message. The Catholic Church and the sects of the Protestant Church are NOT teaching the full message. Now why is that? What would possess them NOT to teach the full message? In the Council of Laodecia, they threw out certain scriptures that were considered authentic and inspired by the first church teachings. Now, why, why, would PETER consider certain texts so important, that he and other authors in the NEW TESTAMENT, would mention or allude to it over 100x? Why, why would the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Council of Laodecia murder people who thought these scriptures were SO important that they be burned at the stake, or tortured to death in some way? That troubles me greatly. Whose authority is on the Scriptures that the Jesus, the Apostles, and the disciples think is SO important that it is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT? It's GOD's authority. NOT MAN'S!

I am not talking about the gnostic scriptures. I'm talking about the books specifically talked about in the Bible: Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, Giants, and so many more. This disturbs me. Because when you read these books and put the message together with the first Church, in the basic core teachings of WHY Jesus died for US, it makes so much sense.

I cannot take these churches seriously anymore. They've done a huge, huge immeasurable disservice to Christians everywhere by lying to them. What did John say in the Bible? He said, ANYONE WHO EDITS THESE SCRIPTURES WILL NOT RECEIVE THE KINGDOM! And what did they do? They took those scriptures out ANYWAY! We are being lied too. Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, and a few others complete this story of what Jesus is talking to us about. Completes the story of Revelations. AND, IT WAS INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT! Many shake their head, they feel the end times coming, they sense it in their bones, maybe they even wake up in the middle of the night, look out the window, and wonder, wth is going on with this world? We have not been given the entire message. We need to really really question these churches.
Pull every scripture out of Jesus's sayings. Every one. Ask yourself, does this church do this? Seriously, pull them out and question. If you go down a laundry list, you will find, the answer.

Now why is it, why, that so so very many Christians are leaving the church? What is it, that the church is not doing? Ever wondered that? Ever wondered, are they really really doing for our brothers and sisters? When we have these mega fat cat churches with 10m homes? When we have Archbishops protecting pedophiles! Who is really serving Christ's sheep? WHO? It's NOT THE CHURCHES!

Now....why is it...why...I ask you...why is it that our kids are getting abused, that our families our falling apart, that our society is crumbling? Where are the churches as the 7 LAMPS! WHERE ARE THEY??? Do you see them? Ask yourself that. Where are our pastors that are supposed to "step in" for us and help out, or deacons, or disciples...ever see them?

I'm not saying this 100% for all Christians or all faiths. I know their are good hard working loving people out there who really love God and shake their heads as well.

All I ask, is that you do a comparison, you look at the evaluation of the church, compared to the teachings of Christ. Ask yourself...who is my brother? Can we say to ourselves as Christians, that we really serve humanity? Seriously? You think Christ is gonna say, ok, you are my chosen? NOPE. He's gonna say to us, I never knew you. This again, is not for every Christian, but...the signs are there unfortunately that our churches are crumbling, and being attacked from within and without.

The NT, The OT, Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees and a few others are all 100%, 150% Christ based. All of it. We have been lied too, and it's time to stand up as Christians and go back to the teachings of Christ 100%

Let us not forget that judgment begins in the House of the Lord.
Let us also remember that "it is given unto the beast to make war with the saints"...

salamacum · Aug 3, 2014

Ruthie - you can't just leave it like that...
In what WAY do those neglected books / scripture affect our current understanding of salvation and Jesus?

ValorWoman4Jesus · Mar 30, 2015

I really believe strongly that this Holy Week, that God is going to visibly advance His kingdom and glorify Himself. God is shedding His light on the sins of His people who call themselves Christians. This is about God's bidding and His name's sake. God shall create a new order as He sees fit. He did it in light of Ferguson, and He can do it again in the light of the division and discord among the brethren. We are to all be united as one, yet we are gossiping about our Christian friends complaining about how unchristian they are being to them. This is insanity! I don't believe in politics! Jonathan Edwars, a pastor from the 1700s stressed about really doing the real work of Christ. This means having the love of God in you and embracing and includiing your Christian family members, for God has accepted them. According to 1 John 2:9, Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. I see too much of this. There are Christian friends betraying other Christian friends. There are people not taking responsibility for their actions. There are people not willing to go the extra mile. Collectively, there is a group of Christians with a name it and claim it propsperity gospel with no compassion for those who are struggling. They claim lack of faith, laziness, entitlement mentality, money mismanagement, bad character etc. This Charismatic movement also believes in politics that futher oppress the downtrodden, the weak, the rejected, the broken, the lonely, the mentally ill, the poor, which is not unlike what Hitler did to the little people before taking it full throttle.

This is not about me. I thank God that he did not exalt me sooner, lest my ministry become a cult, which is about worshipping the leader. I care about God's bidding for peace, justice, right relationships and harmony among all Christians.

Let's take a stand and pray for rivival an revolution in Christian America!

ValorWoman4Jesus · Mar 31, 2015

God glorified Himself right in my kitchen! I picked up a big Fuji apple to pack in my lunch, and found an impression of a cross on the back of it.

Why can't all Christians be on the same page?

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