Why can't all Christians be on the same page?

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

As a peacemaker, this confuses me as much as it disturbs me. The bible is proof that all of the members of the body of Christ are to be in unity. Here are some verses that support Christians being united and not divided.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:2-6
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Sadly, this is not what I am seeing in the body of Christ. In Galatians 6:1, it says that we are to restore fellowship to a loved one or fellow sister or brother who is sinning.

I am struggling with dealing with friends who are living in some sort of sin, but when I turn to the elders, whom are supposed to be unbiased ministers of reconciliation, they will tell me to turn against them as an act of responsible prudence, since "I don't need" such people in my life.

A true peacemaker will not be biased and tell one Christian to get rid of someone else who is a Christian because they are not fitting into "their" definition of righteousness.

I admit, I am selfish towards my closest friend and we have our spats and disagrements, and yes, I do not trust her 100%, yet I chose to stick by her and see her through without giving up on her and turning my back on her no matter what the cost, unless she does something blatantly dishonest. I know God has called me and my friend, who is also a very helpful nanny to our 4 year old son to stick together in unity.

Proverbs 15:22 states that if you surround yourself with many counselors, your plans will succeed. But Jeremiah 17:5 says we are cursed for trusting in man (and whose heart turns away from God.) I have been seeking God as wholeheartedly as can be expected in these crazy last days. I do put my trust and faith in the Lord more than anything or anyone, yet I feel as though I am not getting as far as I have been called to. I still revisit the fact that I need the cooperation of other members of the body of Christ to be my allies and be interested in helping me promote unity in the church including between me and my Christian friends, whom God has put into my life. What God has put together, let no man separate. It just doesn't talk about marriage.

In Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus gives options about how to deal with someone who sins in the church. Some people I see clearly however are abusing what it says in Matthew 18:17, treating people who are struggling with sin as pagans, thinking that they don't listen or care about the truth when they do care about what's right in their hearts. I know it's a challenge for Christian leaders to tell what's in the hearts of people who are having struggles.

However, I just don't see "kicking someone out of my fellowship" as an act of tough love as the appropriate answer when my friend(s) and I are having disagreements.

Galatians 6:1 encourages us to restore someone in sin to gentleness, but when I turn to an elder for assistance with a dispute I am having with a close Christian friend, it is drawn way out of porportion!

1 Thessalonians 5:14 also says to rebuke those in sin, but encourage the weak and be patient towards all. I don't see this hardly!
If Christians are supposed to be in tune with God and the Holy Spirit, why is it that they are still in disagreement with each other? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The very thing that I am passionate about, unity, fellowship and true friendship in the church, is also what's affecting me in my personal life.

God brings people into my life, yet also allows so called church elders to come in and disapprove of the friends I choose when I have a problem. Egads! We're supposed to restore them to fellowship, rebuking them where necessary, holding them accountable, but don't turn your back on them! True, when people are disobedient, we are to not associate with them, but too many in the church are judging fellows brothers and sisters as being disobedient where they are not.

Pray for me everyone! I am dealing with something that hits home for me. I will close with this last verse.
James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

 

[TheDag]

It is a difficult situation. Different factors contribute to the way churches seem to be heading. In some countries it is worse than others. Of course we are sinful and don't always do the right thing. Human nature can be difficult to overcome. A pastor friend of mine had to go to a congregation member whom he had said "If yo want to be rejected then I'll reject you. Go home" to. Certainly there were certain factors involved which caused him to say that when he normally wouldn't. Those factors caused him to revert to his natural self. After sharing a coffee he went to the persons place to seek forgiveness.

I would also be interested in hearing what you consider unity to be. To me unity does not mean we have to agree but it sounds like it does to you. Could you define it?

I pray that God gives you strength to deal with what you need to.

 

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

To me, Unity means for everyone to value what matters most, unconditional love. It means accepting one another despite their mistakes and differences. However, not all people agree as to what this means. To me it means accepting others without rejecting them or writing them off for mistakes that were either unintentional or repented of, even if their hearts are right towards God. We can agree to disagree, but when it comes to the goal of restoring fellowship and having a relationship with one another not being of most importantance, I have a problem with it. When people are concerned more about petty, trivial grey areas, like conforming to a behavior mold or else be written off as a heathen when there are bigger fish to fry, I have a problem with that. When people misjudge one another's character and don't heed 1 Samuel 16:7 by looking at outward appearance as having greater weight than the matters of the heart, yes I have big problem with it. When people have lack of compassion for the challenges struggling people face whose hearts are otherwise right towards God wanting what He wants, and refuse to help them because they are "sinning", that my friend, causes division in the church.

 

[Albion]

To me, Unity means for everyone to value what matters most, unconditional love.

Alas, the Gospel contains a lot more than that. Since we all agree that it's the Word of God, it automatically is elevated in the minds of most people to something that need to be understood correctly.

That causes friction almost unavoidably, since to do the only thing that would avert the friction--saying that the disagreements don't matter--is not going to be acceptable to those who think having the truth DOES matter.

 

[hedrick]

Very early in the history of Christianity, the Church decided that agreeing upon doctrine was important. My theory (with some backing from historians) is that maintaining a united front was important in a situation where the Church was being persecuted. This was reinforced when Christianity became legal, because the emperors saw Christianity as a way to unite the Empire. So the church leaders became a hierarchy, and both tradition and the needs of the Empire pushed them to demand conformity. It also gave them the power to enforce it.

So after the first few hundred years we change from Jesus, who taught almost entirely about behavior to a definition of Christianity in terms of conformity in belief. After the Reformation, the Catholic Church was no longer able to enforce conformity. But while Protestants might now disagree, they continued to maintain
* that conformity in doctrine and practice were essential
* that doctrines weren't just the fairly general teachings of Scripture, but things with three hypostases with one ousia, or specific solutions to the grace / free will conundrum.

 

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

Alas, the Gospel contains a lot more than that. Since we all agree that it's the Word of God, it automatically is elevated in the minds of most people to something that need to be understood correctly.

That causes friction almost unavoidably, since to do the only thing that would avert the friction--saying that the disagreements don't matter--is not going to be acceptable to those who think having the truth DOES matter.

Yes, the truth does matter. It certainly matters to me. God is just and Holy, and as such, He must punish sin. Another truth that everyone should believe is John 14:6, which says that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Him. I am passionate about the whole truth in the bible. We need to stand up for what we believe and are convicted of to be the truth against those who disagree with it. God's will though is for all of His children to understand the Holy Bible through and through. Sadly, there can be two sincere Christians who debate scripture on every subject. The highest command though that there should be no compromise on is Matthew 22:37-39 which speaks of the two greatest commandments-You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all of your mind and to love others as yourself. These two laws according to Jesus sum up the laws of the prophets. It can be hard to understand what this all entails. I still can't figure it all out or understand it yet myself.

 

[God Is Immortal]

Well, what is a Christian?

 

[lismore]

Well, what is a Christian?

Someone who believes that Jesus Christ is Lord and has risen from the dead?

 

[Albion]

Yes, the truth does matter. It certainly matters to me. God is just and Holy, and as such, He must punish sin. Another truth that everyone should believe is John 14:6, which says that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Him. I am passionate about the whole truth in the bible. We need to stand up for what we believe and are convicted of to be the truth against those who disagree with it. God's will though is for all of His children to understand the Holy Bible through and through. Sadly, there can be two sincere Christians who debate scripture on every subject. The highest command though that there should be no compromise on is Matthew 22:37-39 which speaks of the two greatest commandments-You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all of your mind and to love others as yourself. These two laws according to Jesus sum up the laws of the prophets. It can be hard to understand what this all entails. I still can't figure it all out or understand it yet myself.

Have you just answered the question of the OP?

 

[Radicchio]

"Therefore unity of church does not mean conformity. There is unity in diversity. Coerced unity is not unity." A New Reformation by Matthew Fox

 

[Ruthie24]

As a peacemaker, this confuses me as much as it disturbs me. The bible is proof that all of the members of the body of Christ are to be in unity. Here are some verses that support Christians being united and not divided.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:2-6
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to one hope when you were called- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Sadly, this is not what I am seeing in the body of Christ. In Galatians 6:1, it says that we are to restore fellowship to a loved one or fellow sister or brother who is sinning.

I am struggling with dealing with friends who are living in some sort of sin, but when I turn to the elders, whom are supposed to be unbiased ministers of reconciliation, they will tell me to turn against them as an act of responsible prudence, since "I don't need" such people in my life.

A true peacemaker will not be biased and tell one Christian to get rid of someone else who is a Christian because they are not fitting into "their" definition of righteousness.

I admit, I am selfish towards my closest friend and we have our spats and disagrements, and yes, I do not trust her 100%, yet I chose to stick by her and see her through without giving up on her and turning my back on her no matter what the cost, unless she does something blatantly dishonest. I know God has called me and my friend, who is also a very helpful nanny to our 4 year old son to stick together in unity.

Proverbs 15:22 states that if you surround yourself with many counselors, your plans will succeed. But Jeremiah 17:5 says we are cursed for trusting in man (and whose heart turns away from God.) I have been seeking God as wholeheartedly as can be expected in these crazy last days. I do put my trust and faith in the Lord more than anything or anyone, yet I feel as though I am not getting as far as I have been called to. I still revisit the fact that I need the cooperation of other members of the body of Christ to be my allies and be interested in helping me promote unity in the church including between me and my Christian friends, whom God has put into my life. What God has put together, let no man separate. It just doesn't talk about marriage.

In Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus gives options about how to deal with someone who sins in the church. Some people I see clearly however are abusing what it says in Matthew 18:17, treating people who are struggling with sin as pagans, thinking that they don't listen or care about the truth when they do care about what's right in their hearts. I know it's a challenge for Christian leaders to tell what's in the hearts of people who are having struggles.

However, I just don't see "kicking someone out of my fellowship" as an act of tough love as the appropriate answer when my friend(s) and I are having disagreements.

Galatians 6:1 encourages us to restore someone in sin to gentleness, but when I turn to an elder for assistance with a dispute I am having with a close Christian friend, it is drawn way out of porportion!

1 Thessalonians 5:14 also says to rebuke those in sin, but encourage the weak and be patient towards all. I don't see this hardly!
If Christians are supposed to be in tune with God and the Holy Spirit, why is it that they are still in disagreement with each other? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The very thing that I am passionate about, unity, fellowship and true friendship in the church, is also what's affecting me in my personal life.

God brings people into my life, yet also allows so called church elders to come in and disapprove of the friends I choose when I have a problem. Egads! We're supposed to restore them to fellowship, rebuking them where necessary, holding them accountable, but don't turn your back on them! True, when people are disobedient, we are to not associate with them, but too many in the church are judging fellows brothers and sisters as being disobedient where they are not.

Pray for me everyone! I am dealing with something that hits home for me. I will close with this last verse.
James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

The reason why I believe that Christians are not all on the same page is that they to some degree, no longer identify with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the first century Church. I believe it was the anti-Christ spirit that led man to divide the church the way he has through his own free will, instead of really Listening to what Jesus said. This is probably why I dislike organized religion so much. It's not that I don't believe there are real Christians who are Protestants, but the Prostestant nor Catholic Church dogma reflects the teachings of Christ. Just my opinion. That's why we are all falling the way we are today. Free will, divisiveness, coupled with the anti-Christ Spirit.

 

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

The reason why I believe that Christians are not all on the same page is that they to some degree, no longer identify with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the first century Church. I believe it was the anti-Christ spirit that led man to divide the church the way he has through his own free will, instead of really Listening to what Jesus said. This is probably why I dislike organized religion so much. It's not that I don't believe there are real Christians who are Protestants, but the Prostestant nor Catholic Church dogma reflects the teachings of Christ. Just my opinion. That's why we are all falling the way we are today. Free will, divisiveness, coupled with the anti-Christ Spirit.

Oh man! You hit the hammer on the nail! It makes perfect sense! What can we do to bring Jesus and His true teachings into the church? I believe that God has called me to be a peacemaker/minister of reconciliation to reunite the divided church. I think it's so sad how I do not see the real Jesus hardly in the church. It is for this reason also that my husband and I have not gotten the real support and guidance that we need to get to where God wants us to be.

 

[Ruthie24]

Oh man! You hit the hammer on the nail! It makes perfect sense! What can we do to bring Jesus and His true teachings into the church? I believe that God has called me to be a peacemaker/minister of reconciliation to reunite the divided church. I think it's so sad how I do not see the real Jesus hardly in the church. It is for this reason also that my husband and I have not gotten the real support and guidance that we need to get to where God wants us to be.

I have a theory that all Christians who question the sect/faction of religion they belong too, who scratch their heads, who go to bed at night and wonder wth am I doing, who say to themselves, I don't want to tell people I'm struggling, but God I'm really struggling here, need to go back to the teachings of the 1st century church, what Jesus taught, what the apostles taught, the very very basics. Forget the dogma, forget the religious rule books and the conferences on this or that church teaching. Does Christ say it? What does he say? What does the Bible say? I mean, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY SAY? What does CHRIST REALLY SAY? This is what we need to go back too.

This is the issue with the divisions of the church, Jesus, the apostles, the disciples all considered certain cannon that is not in the Bible, but mentioned and alluded to IN the Bible. This is what people need to know. They are NOT getting the full message. The Catholic Church and the sects of the Protestant Church are NOT teaching the full message. Now why is that? What would possess them NOT to teach the full message? In the Council of Laodecia, they threw out certain scriptures that were considered authentic and inspired by the first church teachings. Now, why, why, would PETER consider certain texts so important, that he and other authors in the NEW TESTAMENT, would mention or allude to it over 100x? Why, why would the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Council of Laodecia murder people who thought these scriptures were SO important that they be burned at the stake, or tortured to death in some way? That troubles me greatly. Whose authority is on the Scriptures that the Jesus, the Apostles, and the disciples think is SO important that it is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT? It's GOD's authority. NOT MAN'S!

I am not talking about the gnostic scriptures. I'm talking about the books specifically talked about in the Bible: Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, Giants, and so many more. This disturbs me. Because when you read these books and put the message together with the first Church, in the basic core teachings of WHY Jesus died for US, it makes so much sense.

I cannot take these churches seriously anymore. They've done a huge, huge immeasurable disservice to Christians everywhere by lying to them. What did John say in the Bible? He said, ANYONE WHO EDITS THESE SCRIPTURES WILL NOT RECEIVE THE KINGDOM! And what did they do? They took those scriptures out ANYWAY! We are being lied too. Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, and a few others complete this story of what Jesus is talking to us about. Completes the story of Revelations. AND, IT WAS INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT! Many shake their head, they feel the end times coming, they sense it in their bones, maybe they even wake up in the middle of the night, look out the window, and wonder, wth is going on with this world? We have not been given the entire message. We need to really really question these churches.
Pull every scripture out of Jesus's sayings. Every one. Ask yourself, does this church do this? Seriously, pull them out and question. If you go down a laundry list, you will find, the answer.

Now why is it, why, that so so very many Christians are leaving the church? What is it, that the church is not doing? Ever wondered that? Ever wondered, are they really really doing for our brothers and sisters? When we have these mega fat cat churches with 10m homes? When we have Archbishops protecting pedophiles! Who is really serving Christ's sheep? WHO? It's NOT THE CHURCHES!

Now....why is it...why...I ask you...why is it that our kids are getting abused, that our families our falling apart, that our society is crumbling? Where are the churches as the 7 LAMPS! WHERE ARE THEY??? Do you see them? Ask yourself that. Where are our pastors that are supposed to "step in" for us and help out, or deacons, or disciples...ever see them?

I'm not saying this 100% for all Christians or all faiths. I know their are good hard working loving people out there who really love God and shake their heads as well.

All I ask, is that you do a comparison, you look at the evaluation of the church, compared to the teachings of Christ. Ask yourself...who is my brother? Can we say to ourselves as Christians, that we really serve humanity? Seriously? You think Christ is gonna say, ok, you are my chosen? NOPE. He's gonna say to us, I never knew you. This again, is not for every Christian, but...the signs are there unfortunately that our churches are crumbling, and being attacked from within and without.

The NT, The OT, Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees and a few others are all 100%, 150% Christ based. All of it. We have been lied too, and it's time to stand up as Christians and go back to the teachings of Christ 100%

 

[Albion]

I have a theory that all Christians who question the sect/faction of religion they belong too, who scratch their heads, who go to bed at night and wonder wth am I doing, who say to themselves, I don't want to tell people I'm struggling, but God I'm really struggling here, need to go back to the teachings of the 1st century church, what Jesus taught, what the apostles taught, the very very basics. Forget the dogma, forget the religious rule books and the conferences on this or that church teaching. Does Christ say it? What does he say? What does the Bible say? I mean, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY SAY? What does CHRIST REALLY SAY? This is what we need to go back too.

This is the issue with the divisions of the church, Jesus, the apostles, the disciples all considered certain cannon that is not in the Bible, but mentioned and alluded to IN the Bible. This is what people need to know. They are NOT getting the full message. The Catholic Church and the sects of the Protestant Church are NOT teaching the full message. Now why is that? What would possess them NOT to teach the full message? In the Council of Laodecia, they threw out certain scriptures that were considered authentic and inspired by the first church teachings. Now, why, why, would PETER consider certain texts so important, that he and other authors in the NEW TESTAMENT, would mention or allude to it over 100x? Why, why would the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Council of Laodecia murder people who thought these scriptures were SO important that they be burned at the stake, or tortured to death in some way? That troubles me greatly. Whose authority is on the Scriptures that the Jesus, the Apostles, and the disciples think is SO important that it is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT? It's GOD's authority. NOT MAN'S!

I am not talking about the gnostic scriptures. I'm talking about the books specifically talked about in the Bible: Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, Giants, and so many more. This disturbs me. Because when you read these books and put the message together with the first Church, in the basic core teachings of WHY Jesus died for US, it makes so much sense.

I cannot take these churches seriously anymore. They've done a huge, huge immeasurable disservice to Christians everywhere by lying to them. What did John say in the Bible? He said, ANYONE WHO EDITS THESE SCRIPTURES WILL NOT RECEIVE THE KINGDOM! And what did they do? They took those scriptures out ANYWAY! We are being lied too. Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, and a few others complete this story of what Jesus is talking to us about. Completes the story of Revelations. AND, IT WAS INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT! Many shake their head, they feel the end times coming, they sense it in their bones, maybe they even wake up in the middle of the night, look out the window, and wonder, wth is going on with this world? We have not been given the entire message. We need to really really question these churches. Pull every scripture out of Jesus's sayings. Every one. Ask yourself, does this church do this? Seriously, pull them out and question. If you go down a laundry list, you will find, the answer.

Now why is it, why, that so so very many Christians are leaving the church? What is it, that the church is not doing? Ever wondered that? Ever wondered, are they really really doing for our brothers and sisters? When we have these mega fat cat churches with 10m homes? When we have Archbishops protecting pedophiles! Who is really serving Christ's sheep? WHO? It's NOT THE CHURCHES!

Now....why is it...why...I ask you...why is it that our kids are getting abused, that our families our falling apart, that our society is crumbling?

Because the books of Jasher, Enoch, etc. are not in the Bible?

Not likely.

 

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

I have a theory that all Christians who question the sect/faction of religion they belong too, who scratch their heads, who go to bed at night and wonder wth am I doing, who say to themselves, I don't want to tell people I'm struggling, but God I'm really struggling here, need to go back to the teachings of the 1st century church, what Jesus taught, what the apostles taught, the very very basics. Forget the dogma, forget the religious rule books and the conferences on this or that church teaching. Does Christ say it? What does he say? What does the Bible say? I mean, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY SAY? What does CHRIST REALLY SAY? This is what we need to go back too.

This is the issue with the divisions of the church, Jesus, the apostles, the disciples all considered certain cannon that is not in the Bible, but mentioned and alluded to IN the Bible. This is what people need to know. They are NOT getting the full message. The Catholic Church and the sects of the Protestant Church are NOT teaching the full message. Now why is that? What would possess them NOT to teach the full message? In the Council of Laodecia, they threw out certain scriptures that were considered authentic and inspired by the first church teachings. Now, why, why, would PETER consider certain texts so important, that he and other authors in the NEW TESTAMENT, would mention or allude to it over 100x? Why, why would the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Council of Laodecia murder people who thought these scriptures were SO important that they be burned at the stake, or tortured to death in some way? That troubles me greatly. Whose authority is on the Scriptures that the Jesus, the Apostles, and the disciples think is SO important that it is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT? It's GOD's authority. NOT MAN'S!

I am not talking about the gnostic scriptures. I'm talking about the books specifically talked about in the Bible: Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, Giants, and so many more. This disturbs me. Because when you read these books and put the message together with the first Church, in the basic core teachings of WHY Jesus died for US, it makes so much sense.

I cannot take these churches seriously anymore. They've done a huge, huge immeasurable disservice to Christians everywhere by lying to them. What did John say in the Bible? He said, ANYONE WHO EDITS THESE SCRIPTURES WILL NOT RECEIVE THE KINGDOM! And what did they do? They took those scriptures out ANYWAY! We are being lied too. Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, and a few others complete this story of what Jesus is talking to us about. Completes the story of Revelations. AND, IT WAS INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT! Many shake their head, they feel the end times coming, they sense it in their bones, maybe they even wake up in the middle of the night, look out the window, and wonder, wth is going on with this world? We have not been given the entire message. We need to really really question these churches.
Pull every scripture out of Jesus's sayings. Every one. Ask yourself, does this church do this? Seriously, pull them out and question. If you go down a laundry list, you will find, the answer.

Now why is it, why, that so so very many Christians are leaving the church? What is it, that the church is not doing? Ever wondered that? Ever wondered, are they really really doing for our brothers and sisters? When we have these mega fat cat churches with 10m homes? When we have Archbishops protecting pedophiles! Who is really serving Christ's sheep? WHO? It's NOT THE CHURCHES!

Now....why is it...why...I ask you...why is it that our kids are getting abused, that our families our falling apart, that our society is crumbling? Where are the churches as the 7 LAMPS! WHERE ARE THEY??? Do you see them? Ask yourself that. Where are our pastors that are supposed to "step in" for us and help out, or deacons, or disciples...ever see them?

I'm not saying this 100% for all Christians or all faiths. I know their are good hard working loving people out there who really love God and shake their heads as well.

All I ask, is that you do a comparison, you look at the evaluation of the church, compared to the teachings of Christ. Ask yourself...who is my brother? Can we say to ourselves as Christians, that we really serve humanity? Seriously? You think Christ is gonna say, ok, you are my chosen? NOPE. He's gonna say to us, I never knew you. This again, is not for every Christian, but...the signs are there unfortunately that our churches are crumbling, and being attacked from within and without.

The NT, The OT, Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees and a few others are all 100%, 150% Christ based. All of it. We have been lied too, and it's time to stand up as Christians and go back to the teachings of Christ 100%

Amen! Very well said!

 

[RedWingInCo]

"A true peacemaker will not be biased and tell one Christian to get rid of someone else who is a Christian because they are not fitting into "their" definition of righteousness."

I can see that you are earnest in your seeking after the heart and mind of God. I can also tell that you love your friend very much and are torn within. I have spent several years in full-time Christian ministry but lost everything because of sinful and selfish choices. I say that so I can lay the foundation of this next statement - I Understand!

I see, however, specifically in the quote above, that you are susceptible to the same error as the ones within the Body you are frustrated with. It is not you who determines what "a true peacemaker" is or looks like. I do believe that the church botches issues of discipline often. Going back to the quote from Matthew - what does it mean to treat someone like a pagan? It means to share the Gospel with them and seek their conversion! It doesn't mean to turn your back on them and walk away.

As you seek the face of Christ, please, don't focus on what others are doing wrong - focus on Jesus the person. He will guide you as to how YOU should respond. By the way, unity as described in the bible refers to unity of love and it does not always mean unity of opinion. You and I can disagree about something and still be united. It is clear that you love your friend and it is my prayer that this love will bear fruit in her life and draw her into a deeply personal walk with Christ. Blessings!

 

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

"A true peacemaker will not be biased and tell one Christian to get rid of someone else who is a Christian because they are not fitting into "their" definition of righteousness."

I can see that you are earnest in your seeking after the heart and mind of God. I can also tell that you love your friend very much and are torn within. I have spent several years in full-time Christian ministry but lost everything because of sinful and selfish choices. I say that so I can lay the foundation of this next statement - I Understand!

I see, however, specifically in the quote above, that you are susceptible to the same error as the ones within the Body you are frustrated with. It is not you who determines what "a true peacemaker" is or looks like. I do believe that the church botches issues of discipline often. Going back to the quote from Matthew - what does it mean to treat someone like a pagan? It means to share the Gospel with them and seek their conversion! It doesn't mean to turn your back on them and walk away.

As you seek the face of Christ, please, don't focus on what others are doing wrong - focus on Jesus the person. He will guide you as to how YOU should respond. By the way, unity as described in the bible refers to unity of love and it does not always mean unity of opinion. You and I can disagree about something and still be united. It is clear that you love your friend and it is my prayer that this love will bear fruit in her life and draw her into a deeply personal walk with Christ. Blessings!

Thanks so much! That really helped me!

 

[Peripatetic]

The very thing that I am passionate about, unity, fellowship and true friendship in the church, is also what's affecting me in my personal life.

Isn't it interesting how that happens? God is asking you to be a voice of reason in those areas that are sorely needed it in our culture today: unity, fellowship, compassion, tolerance, etc. It's sad how words like "tolerance" and "acceptance" are so charged with negative emotion and misconception among many Christians today that they've lost their actual meaning.

As difficult as the adversity no doubt is, you can take comfort in knowing that you are probably right where you need to be to help the cause of unity in your own humble way. I really appreciated your perspectives, by the way.

 

[Peripatetic]

Very early in the history of Christianity, the Church decided that agreeing upon doctrine was important. My theory (with some backing from historians) is that maintaining a united front was important in a situation where the Church was being persecuted.

Very good point. I think it also links back to some of the Old Testament laws that make us wonder. When the nation of Israel was first coming together to worship the Lord, strict conformity was needed to ensure that it didn't turn into a watered down mixture truth and pagan myths. This helps to explain why intermarriage between races was discouraged then, for example.

Then when the Christian church was young, it was considered just another fringe sect, so consistency of message was very important. Now the core doctrines of Christianity have been established for centuries, so we've turned our attention to disputable matters which have caused great divisions and harm. I believe that there is more room for diversity of worship style and secondary doctrines than we tend to support today.

 

[TheDag]

Very good point. I think it also links back to some of the Old Testament laws that make us wonder. When the nation of Israel was first coming together to worship the Lord, strict conformity was needed to ensure that it didn't turn into a watered down mixture truth and pagan myths. This helps to explain why intermarriage between races was discouraged then, for example.

Then when the Christian church was young, it was considered just another fringe sect, so consistency of message was very important. Now the core doctrines of Christianity have been established for centuries, so we've turned our attention to disputable matters which have caused great divisions and harm. I believe that there is more room for diversity of worship style and secondary doctrines than we tend to support today.

excellent post. We do need to remember that God was establishing his nation Israel to be a example to everyone else. How did that look? Well sacrifices were nothing unusual in those days. The difference between them and others is that God did not demand human sacrifices like many pagan religions did.