why can we eat pork?

[AvgJoe]

I'm just wondering why it is ok for christians to eat pork and shell fish and things that the bible says that we can't eat.

1 Timothy 4:1-5(ESV)
1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2) through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3) who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4)For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5) for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

 

[OObi]

1 Timothy 4:1-5(ESV)
1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2) through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3) who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4)For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5) for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

I'm going to post this verse again and this time pay attention to my highlighted parts:

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Okay, tell me, in Leviticus 24, was that a doctrine of the devil? Was it a seducing spirit? A lie? A hypocrisy? I certainly hope not! What meats has God created to be received with thanksgiving? The clean ones! Never are unclean animals considered food in the bible. This passage is talking about people that add on to the bible, teaching from other sources. Or any other people in general, like vegitarians, is it a sin to eat meat? No, God gave us meat, and so therefore if anyone tells you otherwise you know they are wrong from this passage!

In Christ, OObi

 

[Scholar in training]

Note that Daniel's obedience, with respect to not eating the unclean foods of the king, was handsomely rewarded with good health:
Dan 1:15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.

However, this is anecdotal evidence, not scientific evidence; I don't believe you can say that following the Law's dietary guidelines are healthful overall or in the long run just from reading this passage. Again, that is what I am concerned with: concrete health benefits.

In addition to the prohibitions in Leviticus 11, Daniel also had this earlier example in Exodus to guide him in keeping his health through his diet:
Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

While not explicitly stated there, I think it is reasonable to assume that the diseases spoken of would have been the result of not heeding the distinctions made by God in clean and unclean animals.

The ritual purity laws are only part of the Law. I think that reading them into this verse is eisegesis at best, in light of what God said in the book of Hosea: "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." According to Bright (referring to a verse in Jeremiah expressing the same idea): "It is unlikely, however, that it is to be taken either as a categorical rejection of the sacrificial system as such, or as a statement that there was no sacrifice in the wilderness. . . God's essential demands did not concern ritual matters, but the keeping of the Covenant stipulations". (Quoted here). The ritual purity laws, then, were considered second place to following the covenant obligations.

Will you answer the rest of what I wrote in post #58? Specifically the point that the ritual purity laws are cultural (and therefore temporary):

"How can this be when the very purpose of the ritual purity laws was to prevent Israel from adopting pagan practices? The eating of the food is not really the problem, anymore than having a particular haircut is a sin (Lev 19:27). Instead, both of these laws are cultural; the first enacted for the purpose described above, the second because (at the time) no one cut off their beard unless they were going to engage in nasty activity. It was an insult to shave one's beard because it was a sign of manhood (see here)."

 

[OObi]

Again, that is what I am concerned with: concrete health benefits.

Just do a google on how bad pork is for you. Or shrimp, and so on. You'll get a lot. I would also suggest doing an in depth study on eating what YHWH has called uclean. It would be very informative as to why He would make such restrictions.

How can this be when the very purpose of the ritual purity laws was to prevent Israel from adopting pagan practices? The eating of the food is not really the problem

You just gave the answer to your own question. It was to keep them from pagan practices. It does the same for us, maybe not to that extreme, but still. It teaches seperation, that there is to be a difference between the profane and the holy. Just kind of like the whole seperate fabrics thing, there obviously isn't any special benefit from not wearing a mixed garment, but it teaches us that there is to be seperation.

Another good way to look at it is this, it's pretty simple as well, if you can't control what goes in your stomach, how will you control the other aspects of your life.

Blessings, OObi

 

[AvgJoe]

I'm going to post this verse again and this time pay attention to my highlighted parts:

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Okay, tell me, in Leviticus 24, was that a doctrine of the devil? Was it a seducing spirit? A lie? A hypocrisy? I certainly hope not! What meats has God created to be received with thanksgiving? The clean ones! Never are unclean animals considered food in the bible. This passage is talking about people that add on to the bible, teaching from other sources. Or any other people in general, like vegitarians, is it a sin to eat meat? No, God gave us meat, and so therefore if anyone tells you otherwise you know they are wrong from this passage!

In Christ, OObi

The verse says, "...every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused..." I don't understand how "every creature" refers only to God's clean creatures. That makes no sense because it isn't in the verse.

I was only answering the OP and will not argue the point any further. Personally, I don't care what anyone eats or doesn't eat. Romans 14:3 tells us, "Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him."

 

[Little_Angel_of_Yahweh]

I don't like to eat pork not only does it say not to in the bible but ALL it is is FAT anf I don't wan't to sit there and eat just FAT....

 

[Linus]

However, this is anecdotal evidence, not scientific evidence; I don't believe you can say that following the Law's dietary guidelines are healthful overall or in the long run just from reading this passage. Again, that is what I am concerned with: concrete health benefits.

Beloved, if you are concerned with health issues, then I strongly suggest that you give up meat consumption in whole, not just pork.

Here is just a brief summary of some of the benefits of eating vegetarian food:

Vegetarian eating plans offer health benefits, too. Vegetarian plans tend to result in lower rates of heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and some forms of cancer. Vegetarians also tend to have lower body mass indexes and cholesterol levels.

Source: American Dietetic Association
http://www.eatright.org/

 

[rstrats]

AvgJoe,

re: "I was only answering the OP and will not argue the point any further."

And yet in your very next sentences you continue to do so.

 

[OObi]

The verse says, "...every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused..." I don't understand how "every creature" refers only to God's clean creatures. That makes no sense because it isn't in the verse.

Sure it won't make sense if you only look at the immediate context of the verse. There are several contexts to consider when interpreting scripture: immediate, context of chapter/book, and the biblical context. First of all, you didn't quote it right, it doesn't say every creature is good, it says every creature of God is good. Next, the chapter context doesn't suggest that either, as I went over in my previous post in detail, Leviticus 11 is not a "doctrine of devils".

Finally, and most importantly, to suggest that we can eat pork is a violation of all three contexts because of Colossians 2:16-17 tells us that the body of christ is supposed to tell us when we are wrong. So if that verse says that in black and white, then maybe to avoid a contradiction in scripture we should re-evaluate our perspective on this passage if we are to make a claim that we can now eat pork.

I was only answering the OP and will not argue the point any further.

If we want to answer the original post, then let's. We can eat pork because it goes in and out of us easily, and because our digestive system allows it. But that's the only reason why we can.

Now, if the question is chagned to, should we eat pork? Then that's the point I'm making here, no.

Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

 

[OObi]

The verse says, "...every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused..." I don't understand how "every creature" refers only to God's clean creatures. That makes no sense because it isn't in the verse.

Sure it won't make sense if you only look at the immediate context of the verse. There are several contexts to consider when interpreting scripture: immediate, context of chapter/book, and the biblical context. First of all, you didn't quote it right, it doesn't say every creature is good, it says every creature of God is good. Next, the chapter context doesn't suggest that either, as I went over in my previous post in detail, Leviticus 11 is not a "doctrine of devils".

Finally, and most importantly, to suggest that we can eat pork is a violation of all three contexts because of Colossians 2:16-17 tells us that the body of christ is supposed to tell us when we are wrong. So if that verse says that in black and white, then maybe to avoid a contradiction in scripture we should re-evaluate our perspective on this passage if we are to make a claim that we can now eat pork.

I was only answering the OP and will not argue the point any further.

If we want to answer the original post, then let's. We can eat pork because it goes in and out of us easily, and because our digestive system allows it. But that's the only reason why we can.

Now, if the question is chagned to, should we eat pork? Then that's the point I'm making here, no.

Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

This is verse one of that same chapter. Again, I pose the question, is Leviticus 11 a doubtful disputation? The verse is talking about things that are not biblical, things that can go either way. In particual, this verse is talking about vegitarians. We see this in the next verse.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

These verses aren't in the least sense talking of clean and unclean meats. The majority of the people back then, including Jesus, the apostles, were practing Jews and would not have even considered saying all meats are clean!

When we look at scripture from the perspective that the Torah is done away with we get caught into a trap and many things come up that don't harmonize and contradict. This is where we make the mistakes, when we look at a modern "churchish" perspective. We need to read things in the Hebraic and Jewish mindset that Yeshua had.

Blessings, OObi

 

[Papa01]

[QUOTE]What God has cleansed you must not call common. Acts 10:15[/QUOTE]

Jewish people were taught from childhood never to touch or eat any animal that was unclean. Three times God corrected Peter's resistance with the words," What God has cleansed you must not call common".
Food might have been his first
consideration, but Peter would soon understand the greater message. The vision was a sign from Heaven that Jews were to no longer call Gentiles unclean.
From that point on, these two groups would be on equal footing before the Father.

 

[RomanPrincess]

the bible tells us not to eat from the pig and shellfish ,anything that grazes on the bottom of the ocean floor because that is where there waste and other bad materials end up. They are unclean and can make us sick..and sometimes can cause death. I know when i was young when ever i have eattin a pork hot dog i got sorta sick and makes a bad head ache. I don't eat pork and don't like it.Go by what the bible says,it is the truth and don't do something just because someone else says it is ok to do it.

 

[OObi]

[QUOTE]What God has cleansed you must not call common. Acts 10:15[/QUOTE]

Jewish people were taught from childhood never to touch or eat any animal that was unclean. Three times God corrected Peter's resistance with the words," What God has cleansed you must not call common".
Food might have been his first
consideration, but Peter would soon understand the greater message. The vision was a sign from Heaven that Jews were to no longer call Gentiles unclean.
From that point on, these two groups would be on equal footing before the Father.

This is a very good interpretation of the passage. I want to clear up one thing however, and I'm sure you didn't intend it. You said that Peter calling Gentiles unclean was the greater message. I won't be as bold as to say that it was the only message, and I won't even say it's the greatest. Someone down the road might find a deeper, bigger meaning in this. But anyway, I do know what is not a message, and that is concluding that all animals are clean. It is not a smaller message that is outshined by this bigger message, it is not a message at all. To say that is to contradict any context you can think of in the scriptures.

To anyone that does think this way: Maybe YHWH used these specific unclean animals because they were unclean and He was showing Peter a compare/contrast sort of thing. With what really is unclean, the animals, and what is not unclean, Gentiles.

the bible tells us not to eat from the pig and shellfish ,anything that grazes on the bottom of the ocean floor because that is where there waste and other bad materials end up. They are unclean and can make us sick..and sometimes can cause death. I know when i was young when ever i have eattin a pork hot dog i got sorta sick and makes a bad head ache.

When I ate pork, I never got sick. At least not that I remember. Eating unclean stuff won't neccesarilly make you sick. I just don't want anyone thinking "Since I eat pork and don't get sick, it's God's way of telling me it's okay". It's still unclean.

Go by what the bible says,it is the truth and don't do something just because someone else says it is ok to do it.

This is absolutely true, and it's sad that it happens so much. People all too often go and ask the pastor, and that's not bad, but what is bad is stopping there. I've always liked the quote "it is better to debate without conclusion, then to conclude without debate". Don't stop at what you hear. Yes, listen to other people but also check for yourself in the scriptures to see if these things are true. Don't become rooted in a tradition or just one idea. It's okay to visit another church to get a different perspective (unless you're Catholic... then it might be a sin). It's okay to talk to different educated people about the subject. Consider this, if you've read this and you continue eating unkosher, then you are sinning willfully! If you read this and think I'm right, then you are just not caring about God's word. If you think I'm wrong, you've still done wrong because you didn't tell me why I'm wrong and not only have you left me hanging out to dry, but you've kept yourself from finding truth.

 

[jabechler]

No, it was because it was something Gentiles did. That's a rationalization, not a because.

The entire ritual/holiness law was about keeping a Jewish identity over things Gentile. Things Gentile were things done in their rituals. As such, the Jews, as they were supposed to be a light to the world, were not supposed to emulate or copy them.

Is this not still true for us after the Death and ressurection of Christ. We are still as the Jews , to be a light to the world. We are to be peculair and we are to be like Christ, not the world. In regards to the health laws given to the Jews, were they not given for the betterment of Gods people. And if this is true why would God change or do away with them?

 

[jabechler]

Who is "we," Kemosabe?

Gentiles were authorized to eat pork by the Noahic Covenant.

Then why did God tell Noah to Take 7 pairs of Clean and only one pair of unclean into the ark. It is true that after the flood God told Noah they could eat meat but if Noah ate one of the unclean then how could the species repopulate. And since there was only one oair then Noah could not offer the unclear on the alter of sacrafice.

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

It's pretty silly to say which animals are clean and which are not clean. They're all pretty much the same thing. Bones, organs, muscle tissue, skin and hair. It is the muscle tissue that you eat. It's pointless to argue over which one is "clean" and which one is not. There's little difference between a pig and a cow, other than the taste.

The whole idea that pork is "unclean" is preposterous. It's mighty tasty.

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

Well, God said you can eat anything, thus you go by that. We are under the spirit of the law anyway. And Jesus fufiled the law, He didn't rid it...but His fufilment made it that we don't live by the letter of the law, but the spirit of it instead, hence: just the act of murder isn't sin, but also hate of someone in your heart...the act of adultry isn't just sin, but also the thoughts or imagining it in your mind is...and etc.

The law was ridiculous, anyhow. It was nothing put rituals, many of them seeming very pagan. Jesus wasn't about that.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'm just wondering why it is ok for christians to eat pork and shell fish and things that the bible says that we can't eat.

This Bible verse tells me that those who eat pork, ect,.....will be destroyed, at Christ's 2nd coming......
Isaiah 66:15 "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD".

 

[jabechler]

It's pretty silly to say which animals are clean and which are not clean. They're all pretty much the same thing. Bones, organs, muscle tissue, skin and hair. It is the muscle tissue that you eat. It's pointless to argue over which one is "clean" and which one is not. There's little difference between a pig and a cow, other than the taste.

The whole idea that pork is "unclean" is preposterous. It's mighty tasty.

It may sound a little ridicules in a biological sense but what God has ordained we have no right to question or put away. God in Genesis decided which were clean and unclean not man.

 

[jabechler]

The law was ridiculous, anyhow. It was nothing put rituals, many of them seeming very pagan. Jesus wasn't about that.

this law was given by God for the benefit of His people and what right do we have to say His laws are prepostorous.