Why believe?

[karisma]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

 

[tapero]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

Hi, When I came to Christ, I knew nothing of the bible. I believed in Jesus and then began to read the bible. That is what faith is about; coming to Christ. Then we read (most of us after we have come to Christ, but I'm sure many before as well (reading the bible)), and we grow in the knowledge and truth of God.

There are some who find things in the bible they can not believe, such as you are saying, and while it is good to research and try to understand things, again it has nothing to do with faith in Christ at least not mine.

I love the OT and am not concerned at all that something may not be written in history, but that is my personality type. I am not concerned that any of it is written in history. As one comes to Christ and reads the bible the truths in the bible transform us, or change us. But there are personality types all different ones of course, and such as you need more proof of things than others.

So for me, I believe because of Christ. Christ died and was resurrected for our sins. My whole world changed the day, the second I came to Christ.

So, it's fine to struggle with things in the bible, and maybe someone here who is more of a historian can help you, things such as not having evidence cause me little to no problem.

As my faith is in God who is unseen. Again, not saying wrong to question things; it's just not a stumbling block for me, where sounds like it may be for you.

blessings,
tapero

 

[Stinker]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

I think a lot more Christians today are finding that as far as physical evidence goes, Jesus is the most important.

 

[karisma]

Hi, When I came to Christ, I knew nothing of the bible. I believed in Jesus and then began to read the bible. That is what faith is about; coming to Christ. Then we read (most of us after we have come to Christ, but I'm sure many before as well (reading the bible)), and we grow in the knowledge and truth of God.

There are some who find things in the bible they can not believe, such as you are saying, and while it is good to research and try to understand things, again it has nothing to do with faith in Christ at least not mine.

I love the OT and am not concerned at all that something may not be written in history, but that is my personality type. I am not concerned that any of it is written in history. As one comes to Christ and reads the bible the truths in the bible transform us, or change us. But there are personality types all different ones of course, and such as you need more proof of things than others.

So for me, I believe because of Christ. Christ died and was resurrected for our sins. My whole world changed the day, the second I came to Christ.

So, it's fine to struggle with things in the bible, and maybe someone here who is more of a historian can help you, things such as not having evidence cause me little to no problem.

As my faith is in God who is unseen. Again, not saying wrong to question things; it's just not a stumbling block for me, where sounds like it may be for you.

blessings,
tapero

Hi, thanks for your response.

I was actually raised a Christian from birth, was baptized, confirmed, read many (but not all) parts of the Bible, all the good stuff. Around 16 I started having some doubts, which just grew over time, when finally around a 22-23 I realized I couldn't consider myself a Christian anymore. I tried on Deism, but that didn't fit, finally resorted to agnosticism, and now I consider myself an atheist. I certainly didn't choose to become an atheist, it was just a natural progression. It was actually kind of a scary process deconverting, when you have to change the very beliefs that you've known to be "true" your whole life.

But these kinds of issues (lack of evidence) were definitely a driving force behind my growing disbelief in Christianity. I mean, the exodus is a pretty core story of the OT, that describes God's "chosen people." The rest of the OT kind of builds on from there, and then obviously the NT builds upon the OT. So when one of the foundational stories of the religion have no backing evidence, it kind of shakes the whole structure. I mean, why believe in one story that has no evidence outside the Bible (the resurrection) when another key story has no evidence and likely never happened?

 

[karisma]

I think a lot more Christians today are finding that as far as physical evidence goes, Jesus is the most important.

What do you mean?

 

[tapero]

Hi, thanks for your response.

I was actually raised a Christian from birth, was baptized, confirmed, read many (but not all) parts of the Bible, all the good stuff. Around 16 I started having some doubts, which just grew over time, when finally around a 22-23 I realized I couldn't consider myself a Christian anymore. I tried on Deism, but that didn't fit, finally resorted to agnosticism, and now I consider myself an atheist. I certainly didn't choose to become an atheist, it was just a natural progression. It was actually kind of a scary process deconverting, when you have to change the very beliefs that you've known to be "true" your whole life.

But these kinds of issues (lack of evidence) were definitely a driving force behind my growing disbelief in Christianity. I mean, the exodus is a pretty core story of the OT, that describes God's "chosen people." The rest of the OT kind of builds on from there, and then obviously the NT builds upon the OT. So when one of the foundational stories of the religion have no backing evidence, it kind of shakes the whole structure. I mean, why believe in one story that has no evidence outside the Bible (the resurrection) when another key story has no evidence and likely never happened?

Ah, I wish I could help you, but I'm not a historian at all, and as I said I've needed no proof for me myself, but that's me. I take the bible literally where I believe it's meant to be literal, starting with Genesis on.

If you think about it though; what do you think is making you stumble at this particular scripture rather than the many others there are. I rarely hear posts that doubt about Israel, usually its genesis, or Jonah or the flood etc.

I mean what proof is there that Jesus exists?

None.

I know He does cause I came to Christ and then knew, but there's no proof for Christ. Blessed is He who believes but does not see. So, in other words all of us who believe in Christ did not have a proof experience (unless there may possibly be someone saying such as they had, but I surely didn't) and yet God is real, Christ is real.

hugs,
tapero

 

[Criada]

You may want to take a look at this
Egyptology is a huge subject, and there is a great deal of disagreement about the age and provenance of documentation between experts. But there is certainly some evidence for the events described in Exodus.

However, I assume from the OP that that was just an example, rather than a pressing question...
The important thing is that Christianity is based on the reality of Christ.
I do believe that the Bible is true - but even were you to disprove every story in it , I would still be a Christian - because of a living relationship with Jesus, not historical evidence.

 

[cyberlizard]

faith is based on facts, and facts on events - to simply place faith in Jesus because of a book is not actually placing faith in Jesus at all... it is placing faith in the Jesus in a particular book. This is commonly called 'blind faith' and is not faith, but a leap in the dark.

the Christian faith is built on facts, faith is built on facts. facts are built on events, and all things subsist in god.

 

[Lukaris]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

Because if you really believe in the salvation we are given (if we choose to accept) by our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, matters like this will not bother you. "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29. Faith in everlasting life offered by the Son of God. "For through Him (Jesus Christ) we have access by one Spirit (the Holy Spirit) to the Father." Ephesians 2:18. No where else is this offered & no where else can it be received.

 

[salida]

Well, the reality is - is that the Bible is the most true book in the world; thus, there is overwhelming evidence. When one does their research and homework objectively this is what they find. I suggest you read Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest), The Real Jesus by Lee Strobel. Also, below very briefly I can show you how the Bible can only be the Word of God; there are hundreds of detailed prophesies in it that has come true. Yes, I have studied "other religions" and none come close to this at all.

I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second.

Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information out of excessive amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.


External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

(This information isn't up for debate; its like saying the sun is the moon)

 

[Ephesians4]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

(putting on my former history professor hat)

Although many discoveries have been made in the field of Egyptology, only a fraction of the evidence has yet been discovered. Many archaeologists (if not most) will agree with this.

Interestingly, many recent discoveries have documented evidence of the interaction between the Israelites and the Ancient Egyptians. A recent PBS special discussed evidence of Joseph as the chief advisor to the Pharoah at the time.

In fact, I believe there has been some emerging evidence and some speculation even on the part of non-Christian scholars that the Exodus story is true.

I'd suggest a deeper study into Egyptology and Biblical Archaeology (which is indeed conducted by Christians, agnostics and atheists).

In fact, there's such overwhelming evidence (extra-Biblical) that the events of the Bible are true, that it would be silly NOT to believe. The Bible is as valid of a history book as anything written by Pliny the Younger, Josephus, etc., and arguably more valid that our current history books.

The bigger question is whether or not you believe that there is a supernatural force that was behind those events. That's the real question.

 

[Ephesians4]

I did a brief search on the topic. Here's something from the Institute for Biblical and Scientific Studies:

I'm going to post the link for the full article. The article is really long--too long to post here: http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm

You may find some interesting things in there (or not, it's worth a look)

​

 

[ryanb6]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

wrong, please dig deeper.

 

[ryanb6]

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

because our belief is not based on the finding of a bowl.

 

[karisma]

Thank you all for the references! I have some stuff to look over.

 

[Stinker]

Originally Posted by Stinker
I think a lot more Christians today are finding that as far as physical evidence goes, Jesus is the most important.

What do you mean?

What I mean is that Christians today do not put near as much emphasis on physical evidence for the Biblical creation story, the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, or there having been a world-wide flood. What Christians do put emphasis of physical evidence for is Jesus Christ. Such physical evidence as: http://www.shroudforum.com/

 

[Ephesians4]

Ah, I wish I could help you, but I'm not a historian at all, and as I said I've needed no proof for me myself, but that's me. I take the bible literally where I believe it's meant to be literal, starting with Genesis on.

If you think about it though; what do you think is making you stumble at this particular scripture rather than the many others there are. I rarely hear posts that doubt about Israel, usually its genesis, or Jonah or the flood etc.

I mean what proof is there that Jesus exists?

None.

I know He does cause I came to Christ and then knew, but there's no proof for Christ. Blessed is He who believes but does not see. So, in other words all of us who believe in Christ did not have a proof experience (unless there may possibly be someone saying such as they had, but I surely didn't) and yet God is real, Christ is real.

hugs,
tapero

Good point. Well said!

 

[OldChurchGuy]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

The questions seem to be based on a literal interpretation of the Exodus story.

There is a theory that the story was written down in it's final form many centuries after the fact. By then, recollections were distorted and understandings were embellished.

The crossing of the Sea of Reeds (NOT the Red Sea. It is my understanding "Red Sea" is an inaccurate translation) was probably in a marshy area in or near the Suez Canal.

Every so often a weather event occurs even in this day which will blow against shallow water in such a way as to part it and allow the land under it to become dry. Granted, this is water that is only a few inches deep compared to the Red Sea. But, chariots will have a difficult time getting through a muddy wet area.

Anyway, the theory is that Moses is leading a small group of run aways and they come to the Sea of Reeds with a contingent of the Egyptian Army after them. The wind blows, parts the waters, and Moses and his band of followers make it across safely.

Now if you are leading a group of people and you are running away from people who are wanting to get you back and you come across a water barrier that is suddenly "blown away" so you can cross safely, are you going to say, "Random chance certainly worked in our favor today!!" Or, since you know nothing of weather patterns, are you going to say, "There's a God out there watching over us" (or words to that effect).

The theory is that over time the story is expanded to the story we have now. Every few generations, the story was added to so it would make a greater impression to the listeners on how mighty God was.

As you have shown with the literal interpretation, there is no way to prove this theory either. Just wanted you to be aware there is more than one way to interpret Moses and the Exodus.

OldChurchGuy

 

[Angel4Truth]

There is such a lack of evidence for many of the supposed events of the Bible.

One huge event that I would like to present for an example would be the mass exodus out of Egypt, in which hundreds of thousands of Israelites were slaves then escaped and wandered the desert for 40 years. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE outside of the Bible of this HUGE event taking place! The Egpytians were pretty good record keepers, and there is no mention ANYWHERE of this happening! All first born sons of Egypt were supposedly killed- don't you think even a SINGLE Egyptian historian would make a single note somewhere of this HUGE CATASTROPHIC event? And if hundreds of thousands of people wandered in a desert for 40 years, don't you think there would be a SINGLE SCRAP of evidence that they were there??? A fragment of a bowl, anything??

How do you continue to believe despite these things?

There was no evidence for the existance of the Hittites either untill just this last century - and there were no other writings other than the bible that mentioned that culture and many like yourself thought it proved that the bible was false - now they have more than 10,000 artifacts proving their existance.

Aside from that however imo the best evidence is the Human design we have that has us wonder about it all and the conscience placed in us by Our Creator that separates humans from all others - sense of creativity and intelligent thought - inquiry as well as a sense of justice. These things point us to God and what is meant imo by these verses : Romans 1: 19. because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

Also :

Romans 2:14. for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15. who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

The best evidence for God is to go to the source anyway.

[bible]Jeremiah 33:3[/quote] Search for Him with an open heart - you and Him and you wont be disapointed. Trust in other men/women then you almost always will be disapointed because we are all equally sinners before a Just and Holy God and all equally have need of the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[ContentInHim]

If you want evidence of the Israelites in the wilderness, quit thinking of the Sinai Peninsula and start thinking of Saudi Arabia. Google Sinai and Bob Cornuke and you'll have all the evidence you can handle!