Why Believe in Perpetual Virginity?

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
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I have never responded to a post addressed to a Methodist and don't know why you think I might be one.
Ah. And I never claimed to be Eastern Orthodox.

So there we are.

OTOH, you decided to address a particular response to a post I addressed to SeaShale, who is not you, and is Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.
Unfortunately for you this is a public forum. So you don't get to pick and choose who replies to you and who doesn't. I'm not sure if that's a positive thing or not but the fact remains.

Though I suppose you could PM SeaShale if you're determined to get his point of view on something without others getting involved. Have you tried that?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Why? Seeing as SeaShale is Eastern Orthodox, and the house you referred to is a Catholic pilgrimage. Why do you expect us to pass any sort of judgement on something completely outside our tradition?

SeaShale's original post read, as follows:

"OP: The ever-virginity of the Theotokos is tied directly to Christology. She is the God-bearer. God the Word came to us through her womb, so she is the gate, the ladder of divine descent, the burning bush, the Ark of the Covenant, and like how the path through the Red Sea was closed it was the same with the Theotokos. If that didn't make her Panagia (all-holy) then nothing would. One does not defile what God has made holy."


My response raised the question as to whether or not marital conjugal relations defile a person. I am still awaiting a response to that.

Perhaps you might want to comment, as well, since the colors blend has taken it upon himself to provide his understand of what "The Church" teaches.

Those at Nicea believed in her ever-virginity. Luther, Zwigli, Calvin, and Wesley all believed it. To deny she remained a virgin is only a very modern disbelief- and that's quite curious to me.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Ah. And I never claimed to be Eastern Orthodox.

So there we are.

Unfortunately for you this is a public forum. So you don't get to pick and choose who replies to you and who doesn't. I'm not sure if that's a positive thing or not but the fact remains.

Though I suppose you could PM SeaShale if you're determined to get his point of view on something without others getting involved. Have you tried that?

No, I have not. In the meantime, please enlighten us further as to what "The Church" teaches.
 
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prodromos

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My response raised the question as to whether or not marital conjugal relations defile a person. I am still awaiting a response to that.

Perhaps you might want to comment, as well,
I did that already in post #470, and SeaShale responded in post #469, so it seems you are not awaiting a response but simply getting forgetful in your advanced years.
 
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thecolorsblend

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PanDeVida

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Of coarse she is the mother of our Lord. Who has said anything different?
For Mary to be the most blessed among all women does that require that she remain a virgin?

Do you not understand that the sin nature came from Adam, not Eve? And that the sin nature is passed from the father to all of his children, not from the mother.

Hank, Blessed to be born without sin, Yes! Mary Herself said: "Because He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name;...

Hank, what are these great thingsss done for Her?

The Angel Gabriel gave Mary a new name: "Hail, Full of Grace...". It was not enough to use the word Grace alone but it was magnified by using the word "Full" before the word Grace. AMEN

The synonyms for Grace: Enhanced, Elevate, distinguished,
Definition of Grace: a :unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b :a virtue coming from God c :a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance.


We all know that any Baby including Jesus Christ receives / received 23 Chromosomes from their Mother. These Chromosomes / DNA stay with a baby all their adult life. In order for Jesus Christ not to be Born, having no sin, the Chromosomes can not be tainted with Sin from Mary His Mother, therefore Mary is the Immaculate Conception.

Hank, you may say what about Mary's Mother? Well,
everything has its beginning in the O.T. aka Adam and Eve created without sin. So too in the beginning of N.T. there is a new beginning, The New Adam is Jesus and the New Eve, is Virgin Mary.

Hank, or do you believe that Jesus has not the Power to grant his Mother to be the Immaculate Conception???

If you say No, then to you Jesus Christ is limited with His Power and is contaminated with sin of Mary's 23 Chromosomes. If you say Yes He can do all thingssss, then believe that Mary is the Immaculate Conception. (There is no in betweens)
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hank, Blessed to be born without sin, Yes! Mary Herself said: "Because He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name;...

Hank, what are these great thingsss done for Her?

The Angel Gabriel gave Mary a new name: "Hail, Full of Grace...". It was not enough to use the word Grace alone but it was magnified by using the word "Full" before the word Grace. AMEN

The synonyms for Grace: Enhanced, Elevate, distinguished,
Definition of Grace: a :unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b :a virtue coming from God c :a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance.


We all know that any Baby including Jesus Christ receives / received 23 Chromosomes from their Mother. These Chromosomes / DNA stay with a baby all their adult life. In order for Jesus Christ not to be Born, having no sin, the Chromosomes can not be tainted with Sin from Mary His Mother, therefore Mary is the Immaculate Conception.

Hank, you may say what about Mary's Mother? Well,
everything has its beginning in the O.T. aka Adam and Eve created without sin. So too in the beginning of N.T. there is a new beginning, The New Adam is Jesus and the New Eve, is Virgin Mary.

Hank, or do you believe that Jesus has not the Power to grant his Mother to be the Immaculate Conception???

If you say No, then to you Jesus Christ is limited with His Power and is contaminated with sin of Mary's 23 Chromosomes. If you say Yes He can do all thingssss, then believe that Mary is the Immaculate Conception. (There is no in betweens)

To that we ought to add the most amazing miracle of all. When Jesus Christ was born He was not human, but became human immediately after passing in spirit through Mary's hymen, thus preserving her virginity forever.
 
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SolomonVII

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Of coarse she is the mother of our Lord. Who has said anything different?
For Mary to be the most blessed among all women does that require that she remain a virgin?

Do you not understand that the sin nature came from Adam, not Eve? And that the sin nature is passed from the father to all of his children, not from the mother.
That is a very important question, and a very good theological insight too.
Whatever PV means it cannot mean that a married woman who freely choses to know her husband is therefore sinner on that account, or in any way less blessed. I would challenge anyone who believes in PV to provide the theological reasons why Mary would be sinning or less blessed if she had not remained a virgin in her marriage to Joseph.

The theological insight has more to do with the Immaculate Conception of Mary, which whether or not it is theologically true, is nevertheless theologically unnecessary, much like limbo has now become for Catholics.
Whether or not Mary was sinless, and it is worthy to contemplate that she was, I think, it was not necessary that she was, because Jesus would not have received any sin nature from his mother in any case.
 
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David Kent

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Wow, I knew some of the them demeaned the very act that God created to accomplish the amazing creation of new life, but I didn't realize there were so many.
Tertullian taught that after he joined the Montanist heresy. He said that as marriage and adultery consist of the same act they must both be wrong.

So according to him if you are married you are sinning.

I don't know about the others though.
 
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prodromos

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To that we ought to add the most amazing miracle of all. When Jesus Christ was born He was not human, but became human immediately after passing in spirit through Mary's hymen, thus preserving her virginity forever.
I'm guessing that is what you believe happen in John 20:19 and John 20:26?
 
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prodromos

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Absolutely. After Jesus died he ceased being human and became a spirit being, just like the Nicene Creed tells us.
The Nicene Creed says no such thing.
Spirit beings don't eat food or have flesh.
Luke 24:36-43
As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them. But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The Nicene Creed says no such thing.
Spirit beings don't eat food or have flesh.
Luke 24:36-43
As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them. But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.

Are you implying that the Nicene Creed also says no such thing about Jesus Christ being a spirit being who passed miraculously through Mary's hymen and immediately became a physical baby, this preserving Mary's virginity forever?
 
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prodromos

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Are you implying that the Nicene Creed also says no such thing about Jesus Christ being a spirit being who passed miraculously through Mary's hymen and immediately became a physical baby, this preserving Mary's virginity forever?
I was under the impression that you simply made it up in order to mock the doctrine of the ever virginity of Mary. Was I wrong?
 
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David Kent

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Are you implying that the Nicene Creed also says no such thing about Jesus Christ being a spirit being who passed miraculously through Mary's hymen and immediately became a physical baby, this preserving Mary's virginity forever?

It doesn't matter what the Nicene Creed says. Scripture doesn't say so. Marry was not immaculate, she needed a Saviour.

  • And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.Luke 1: 47
 
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seashale76

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I did that already in post #470, and SeaShale responded in post #469, so it seems you are not awaiting a response but simply getting forgetful in your advanced years.
Yep. I sure did respond.

I still don't know what the point was regarding the house thing- and I had never heard of it before either. I can't answer an additional post when I don't even understand the question. You and I both addressed the topic though- and adequately.
 
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