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That is why you have never heard that Joseph is a widower: you are physically separated from the Church of antiquity by the circumstances of your own birth and life experiences.
You dont understand the contemporary meaning of the word brother, seemingly. It meant kinsman..relation. Extended family.
Sounds you like you need to read them since they're written almost on a college level.Anyway, the links you've provided do not demonstrate any compelling evidence that James the Just was not the brother of Jesus.
Oh dear, you didn't read my post very carefully, did you?This is problematic since Jesus himself says that his body is the fulfillment of the Jewish temple.
A fulfillment. Not necessarily the definitive one. But the similarities are so obvious as to be undeniable.Many Catholics view Our Lady's womb as a fulfillment of the Jewish Temple.
Um, the term "ever virgin" was used in the Second Council of Constantinople... in 553 AD. Are you confusing this with the doctrine of the Assumption??A few ancients may have believed in perpetual virginity. But this was not made infallible Catholic doctrine until the 20th century.
Our Lady.Also Why call her "your lady"
The Protestant reformation didn't come out of the Church, it came out of Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism is itself a reformation of both the nature of the practice of theology and the nature of authority within the Church. Roman Catholicism came out of the Church, Protestantism came out of Roman Catholicism.
Reformers have one thing in common: An authority that stands above the Church (i.e. outside of the Church) that is not God alone. For Rome that authority is the Papacy. For Protestants that authority is Scripture and one's own reasoning.
Common reasoning does not produce Faith...
Are you asking me if I believe in the Immaculate Conception? Yes. She was to be preserved free of sin so that her womb could be Our Lord's dwelling place during His gestation. This, again, speaks to Our Lady being something of a temple inasmuch as she was, as a special grace, kept free of sin specifically for this purpose.Yike, I didn't mean incarnate at all. What I meant to say was, was she conceived immaculate?
No. He doesn't. Not in any literal sense. Whereas He literally grew in Our Lady's literal womb at a literal point in time. Literally!My point is that ones are saying that Mary had to be without sin, in order for Jesus to be in her body. And what I am offering is, that we children of God still do have some amount of sin, yet Jesus Himself lives in us.
Oddly enough the word is adelphos and at various points in Sacred Scripture is used to mean "family member with the same mother and the same father as someone else" or "a distant family relation" or "a countryman" or just someone of the same religion. So no, that's hardly ironclad proof of anything.Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Oddly enough scripture does indicate that Jesus had a brother born James, obviously after the birth of our Lord.
I apologize if my whole statement sounded like spiritual elitism, or denominational triumphalism. It isn't meant in that way, but you asked me a direct question and I honored you with a direct, pointed answer. The answer is still true: If you weren't separated from the Orthodox Church owing to providence, then you would know that Theotokos is ever-virgin.Separated from the Church by my birth and life experiences?
How do you have a clue what my life experiences are? The "Church" is a spiritual thing, not a physical. Sorry, but your whole statement sounded like spiritual elitism.
I've provided other posts to address this canard. As there are several pages in this thread, I'll provide you with links I've used.Really?
What gave you that idea, as you didnt get it from a Bible.
The New Testament said that Mary had other children, and not just Jesus.
Will you say she adopted them all, as there are quite a few.
Will you say that "children" is a mistranslation regarding Mary's "children".
Our Lady.
I refer to Him as Our Lord and her as Our Lady out of respect. I wouldn't normally address my parents by their Christian names out of respect; same thing here.
Sometimes a post pretty much requires me to use their names. So I do it. But typically I stick with those titles.
Early church -What about the early church father comments do you find to be the most unbibical?
So she sinned after His birth and that is why she needed a Savior?Are you asking me if I believe in the Immaculate Conception? Yes. She was to be preserved free of sin so that her womb could be Our Lord's dwelling place during His gestation. This, again, speaks to Our Lady being something of a temple inasmuch as she was, as a special grace, kept free of sin specifically for this purpose.
Ok historically this is true and I do not deny that. The Roman Catholic Church was not "The Church" in the beginning. I mean when Paul wrote the church in Rome he was giving Apostolic Doctrine to a Church that was not set up by an apostle and did not have an apostle there to guide it until Peter went and Paul was under house arrest (which Church history implies was about the same time)
And as I stated in my last post absolutely the Protestant Reformation was a protest of the Roman Catholic Church so it did come out if it.
Once again I believe this point is accurate, but to a point. We do believe there is an authority that is over the Church and it is scripture. But we also recognize that the church has Authority. This is made abundantly clear in the New Testemant that your Pastors, Shepherds, Elders, Overseers (all are the same greek word) have a level of authority over you and they are held double accountable for that fact. But they do NOT have authority over Scripture. The Bereans in Acts questioned the Apostle Paul and used Scripture to make sure what he was saying was true and Paul praised them for it. Why is this? John teaches us in 1st John to "test the spirits" by standing firm to that which was from the beginning. What is he talking about here? That beginning message was the one brought by the apostles which is recorded for us in scripture. So yes we do see scripture as the ultimate authority even over the Church. But we do not see reasoning as an authority. Because Human Reasoning can and is flawed. Which is our exact thought of why scripture is so important to, like the Bereans did, discern Church leadership to make sure it is true.
Once again I agree. In our society common sense (or common reasoning) is anti-christianity. And even if we lived 500 years ago when that was flipped. True believers do not get there by common reasoning. In Romans we are told that we are dead in our transgressions and sins. This goes to our sinful nature. So if our very nature is sinful then our common sense will also be sinful. If a lion has the choice of a fresh bloody steak and a salad what shall he choose? I would argue 99 times out of 100 the lion chooses the steak. So it is only through the transformation of our minds that we can see the absolute need of a savior and that can not be done with common reasoning, but an act of the Holy Spirt preparing our hearts. And by hearing by the Word of God.
No, she remained sinless. This was a special application of grace that, as far as anybody seems to know, was afforded only to her. The exact contours of it are a mystery (in the Catholic use of the idiom) but, to draw a parallel, when a Christian goes to Heaven he will not sin. He will be purified from sin because he has faith in Our Lord.So she sinned after His birth and that is why she needed a Savior?
I don't know much about Zwingli, but Luther and Calvin both would be more comfortable with Catholic teaching about Mary than what current Protestants believe. Calvin, in particular, argued that the 'brothers of the Lord were not biological brothers but other kin. You can believe as you wish, but your own reformers were in no haste to demote Mary. That came much later on and would have been strange to the reformers themselves.Now I have reread this before I posted and want to apologize if this comes off as an attack on the Catholic church. That is not my intention. I am just stating why Protestants do not see eye to eye on the doctrine of celebrating Mary. Because since reformers like Luther, Calvin and Zwingley we want to make sure we are putting the focus on God, because All Glory Belongs to Him!
I think I do understand what you are saying. I must say that when you and I don't sin even when tempted it is only by God's enabling us not to. The Lord sanctifying us.No, she remained sinless. This was a special application of grace that, as far as anybody seems to know, was afforded only to her. The exact contours of it are a mystery (in the Catholic use of the idiom) but, to draw a parallel, when a Christian goes to Heaven he will not sin. He will be purified from sin because he has faith in Our Lord.
Our Lady is no different in that respect. But where she is different is the same grace that other Christians receive after death she received at her conception. It's effectively the same grace; merely applied to her differently. Her sinlessness doesn't come from herself or her own merit. Rather, it still comes from God. Indeed, it can't come from anywhere else. The issue here is God simply gave it to her on this side of death.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this very well because it's late and I'm getting a little punchy here. If not, I'll try clarifying this later on.
In that passage the disciples wrongly conclude that if marriage is indissoluble then it is better not to marry. Jesus then responds that the calling of marriage is only given to some, and the calling of singleness is given to others. Both marriage and celibacy are good callings from God. Nowhere does he state or imply that one is better than another.
Demote Mary from what position? She is the mother of our Lord, how much higher position could she have among women?I don't know much about Zwingli, but Luther and Calvin both would be more comfortable with Catholic teaching about Mary than what current Protestants believe. Calvin, in particular, argued that the 'brothers of the Lord were not biological brothers but other kin. You can believe as you wish, but your own reformers were in no haste to demote Mary. That came much later on and would have been strange to the reformers themselves.
I think I do understand what you are saying. I must say that when you and I don't sin even when tempted it is only by God's enabling us not to. The Lord sanctifying us.
But I'm still confused as to why she needed a Savior if she was born sinless, lived sinless, and died sinless.
That would make her just like Jesus who was sinless and He didn't need a Savior.
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