Why believe in hell?

hartlandcat said:

Sin? I'd always thought that the concept of Christian Salvation was the salvation from sin, rather than the salvation from hell.


So your faith in Jesus Christ is dependent on your belief in the existence of Hell?

Click to expand...

ok... so if you dont beleive in hell where do all the people who dont believe in God end up after they are dead?

Casiopeia said:

The OP is about why do you want to believe in Hell. How does it make you feel to do so. Anyone can say because the bible tells me so or cos Jesus said. I want to know why and how. NOT IF.

Click to expand...

wha???? do you even read what you write????
why would i want to beleive in helll.... yes cuz the bible tells me so...and the bible is true and i bleieve every single word that is writtin in it...........and how does that make me feel???? like i dont wanna go to hell... the wages of sin is death........so knowing there is a hell makes me strive for god more

hartlandcat said:

Sin? I'd always thought that the concept of Christian Salvation was the salvation from sin, rather than the salvation from hell.


So your faith in Jesus Christ is dependent on your belief in the existence of Hell?

Click to expand...

As a Christian who has read the better part of the new Testament and studied the entire thing in school one year, and attend church twice a week, I can tell you that essentially, Christian Salvation is salvation from a second death, of hell. The Greek word used in the translation was Thanatos, which meant death in its purest form. Not just bodily death, but everything. Dead. Alone, hopeless, suffering, are some of the things Thanatos is, from what I can remember of the explanation. Thats what Hell is, and Hell is a result of sin. So from a certain point of view, you are right. Hell is the wage of sin, so by being forgiven for your sins, you are saved from Hell. You are still bound to sin after being saved, but you are forgiven as a Christian(you are still expected to FOLLOW Christ to be a Christian, which means to actually serve him and love others truly, and show it. He tells you to follow Him, not just pray a prayer and wait to die).

Other way around. I believe in Hell because I believe in Jesus. It almost sounds as if you are trying to turn my statement into something negative or contradictory to my faith... I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that is not the case though.

EDIT: Well Cass, how it makes me feel, is grateful that Jesus sacrificed himself to keep me from going there. I know in my heart that I deserve damnation, but I am unspeakably grateful that I will be spared. Does this answer your question?

AtheistPerson said:

When scare tactics stop being used and people begin to think for themselves then the idea will be extinguished.

Click to expand...

Demons has to come from somewhere.

ok... so if you dont beleive in hell where do all the people who dont believe in God end up after they are dead?

Click to expand...

Well personally, I don't generally tend to acknowledge of any life after death. However, Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, believe that those who don't believe in x, y and z will simply cease to exist, whilst those who did will go to Heaven.

Other way around. I believe in Hell because I believe in Jesus. It almost sounds as if you are trying to turn my statement into something negative or contradictory to my faith... I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that is not the case though.

Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to contradict your beliefs, so no.

Paladin Dave said:

I know in my heart that I deserve damnation, but I am unspeakably grateful that I will be spared.

Click to expand...

Really? You feel you deserve damnation?

Suppose I substituted the explanation; "While I'm flawed and make mistakes, and am influenced by carnal desires, my faith is such that I will (I pray) deserve a place in heaven where such things will no longer cause me to sin." Would this, to you, be more or less accurate than what you've already stated? And if not, why?

Respectfully,
Druweid

Paladin Dave said:

Other way around. I believe in Hell because I believe in Jesus.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. You know Jesus died for all of world's sins, and even though he died with giant load of sin on his back, he didn't feel the need to spend any significant amount of time in hell. So why do you feel like you would deserve if for a couple minor transgressions?

Now if Jesus had gone to hell for all eternity so that none of us would have to the story would be far more compelling. But then again if he did that we'd have nothing to fear in not believing the tale, so I guess it was more of a marketing decision.

Well, the flaw and carnal desire part is very accurate. Once you finish the word desires, you start going away from general Biblical doctrine. We believe that at the beginning of Humanity, at the Garden of Eden, mankind was given a choice that was very simple, very black and white, unlike a lot of moral issues we have today. Take the apple, and rebel from God, despite the warnings, or leave it, and remain blameless. Man chose to rebel from God, so that was enough for them to lose Eden, and they faced a life of toil, and eventually, death. While I believe it to be truthful(I know a few Christians, for some odd reason, decided that they could determine that certain parts of the Bible are just symbolic. I am not one of them; just making it clear), it is, in a way, symbolic of our daily choices to rebel against God and sin. The idea behind this, is that one single sin is a rebellion from God, be it flinging an uncalled for insult, a lustful thought, or murder. Anything wrong is enough to screw you over for life, speaking very grimly.

But I want to clarify that this, Sin, Hell, Thanatos, Rebellion, Condemnation, these are not the focal point of the Christian message. It is love and eternal life. Jesus didn't come here saying, "Come to me, or you are all going to burn in Hell!", as many an overzealous Christian has done. He said things such as "I do not condemn you", and "because of your faith, you have been healed", and "I give the water of life; drink of it and you will never thirst again". He came to preach love and salvation. Man tends to look at things in a very negative light in these situations though. And do not be led to believe we follow a spineless wussy God, either. I have explained the idea of FOLLOWING God in a previous post.

Whoa... umm, sorry, kinda wrote you a book there, didn't I? Well, uh... atleast now the chances of my answer being misenterpreted are significantly lower, right? ehe.....heheh.....

MortonGneiss said:

That's interesting. You know Jesus died for all of world's sins, and even though he died with giant load of sin on his back, he didn't feel the need to spend any significant amount of time in hell. So why do you feel like you would deserve if for a couple minor transgressions?

Now if Jesus had gone to hell for all eternity so that none of us would have to the story would be far more compelling. But then again if he did that we'd have nothing to fear in not believing the tale, so I guess it was more of a marketing decision.

Click to expand...

Go on. Attack my faith. I do not care.

Pardon my sarcastic tongue, but are you complaining that Jesus didn't suffer enough for the sins of the world, when he did nothing wrong? Gee. Good luck finding material satisfaction with that attitude.

Also, his time in Hell was not supposed to be serving a sentence. He descended to free those who were not evil, but had died before his coming, and thus never had a chance to seek him out. Studying up on a subject you are about to argue against in detail is very helpful.

Oh, and when you ask about the people today who have not had a chance to seek him out, read the book of... Romans, I think it was. Basically, Paul writes that since the Holy Spirit came into the world after Christ's death, and ever since creation, people have been inclined to recognize God in their surroundings. The sad thing is that most people just decide to make up a god, or do not try to call out to or seek Him, and just keep on going about their business(Don't ask me to justify it. I cannot. I can say, though, that most people in this world today have had atleast one chance to accept Christianity, and have heard the news). According to our beliefs as Christians, it is the old pagan religions that are doing the marketing ploys(I mean, seriously, places like Greece, Egypt, and Scandinavia had a god or goddess for pretty much any problem that came their way. Does our God ever once promise a good life on earth to us? Nope. In some cases, quite the opposite.).

Paladin_Dave said:

Well, the flaw and carnal desire part is very accurate.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I forgot the current trend of two classifications of sin. One being original, the other of choice. My bad.

But I want to clarify that this, Sin, Hell, Thanatos, Rebellion, Condemnation, these are not the focal point of the Christian message. It is love and eternal life.

Click to expand...

The focal, or selling point, may in fact be eternal life. There is a significant list of criteria for obtaining that reward, placating God's inflated ego the chief amongst them. If it wasn't for God's sick obsession with being worshipped by his creation and punishing those who don't, I don't see any practical reason for Him to invent sin in the first place.

Jesus didn't come here saying, "Come to me, or you are all going to burn in Hell!"

Click to expand...

But isn't that the net result of not acknowledging Christ as the Lord and Savior? If merit was all their was to it, we could chuck out huge tracts of the bible, and focus only on those sections that promote modern ethics...which would leave a very small pocket version. Or we could be free not to regard the bible at all. But being a good person isn't enough, at least isn't as widely supported by scripture as the notion that Christ is the only way to enter heaven and avoid hell. If it was, Jesus would be out of job.

I am not going to grace any more of your blatant, poorly informed attacks on Christianity any longer. I know a waste of my breath when I see one. It seems you have already made your choice in what you will believe. If all you are going to do is try and figure out how to make what I say, and what Jesus says, out to be useless drivvel, I see no further point in trying to hold an intelligent and respectful conversation with you.

Good day, and I wish you well.

Paladin Dave said:

Go on. Attack my faith. I do not care.

Pardon my sarcastic tongue, but are you complaining that Jesus didn't suffer enough for the sins of the world, when he did nothing wrong? Gee. Good luck finding material satisfaction with that attitude.

Click to expand...

No, I don't think he did. I think Jesus is willing to let those he's claiming to love and cherish suffer far worse if they don't follow every letter of His rules.

Also, his time in Hell was not supposed to be serving a sentence. He descended to free those who were not evil, but had died before his coming, and thus never had a chance to seek him out. Studying up on a subject you are about to argue against in detail is very helpful.

Click to expand...

I'm well aware of why he descended into hell. My point is if God were just, Jesus would have done a sentence in hell.

Oh, and when you ask about the people today who have not had a chance to seek him out, read the book of... Romans

Click to expand...

No, what Paul says in Romans is those without the Law will have their deeds written on their soul so that it will be recorded for the final judgement. Which is odd, where he goes on to announce that even those who had the law, and lived righteously by the law would still perish, if they lacked faith in Christ. So there's an upshot to not hearing about Christianity, if you live a good life your odds of getting into heaven are better.

The sad thing is that most people just decide to make up a god, or do not try to call out to or seek Him

Click to expand...

Man has been doing that since the dawn of time. Do you know how many dead Gods there are?

Hmm...why believe in hell...well, I don't, but when I did, it wasn't because I wanted to, but because I was taught that such a place existed.

How does it make me feel-it made me feel sad, and a bit frightened.

Oh, by the way, one of you posted that Hades means hell, but that's not true, it means the grave-which is just rest. It's like a period between reincarnations.

-Cassie

Paladin Dave said:

I am not going to grace any more of your blatant, poorly informed attacks on Christianity any longer. I know a waste of my breath when I see one. It seems you have already made your choice in what you will believe. If all you are going to do is try and figure out how to make what I say, and what Jesus says, out to be useless drivvel, I see no further point in trying to hold an intelligent and respectful conversation with you.

Good day, and I wish you well.

Click to expand...

My questions are serious, I'm sorry if you feel they are abrasive or task on your faith. If you feel they are 'poorly informed' by all means correct anything I said that is fallicious in the slightest.

I really don't feel like arguing anymore. But I will answer to your last post, I guess...

I have never read what you said about the law(well, and remembered it, anyway), so I cannot refute that. But I HAVE read where it says that all humanity gets a chance to realize that God exists and to seek him out, and he created us to do as such.

No, I don't think he did. I think Jesus is willing to let those he's claiming to love and cherish suffer far worse if they don't follow every letter of His rules.

Click to expand...

What is leading you to this train of thought? Where did Jesus ever say to follow every letter of his rules, save the two he gave the Pharisees? That you are to love your neighbor as yourself, and to love God, which you also do when you love your neighbors! I do not know the specifics of who all goes to Hell, so I will admit that I cannot answer this absolutely, but I know that he does not expect perfection of us. I have always been taught that we need to believe and show it in our actions, and let love of God and others be our motivation. And you also forget, Hell is for sinners. Jesus never sinned. He suffered enough going from a perfect existance as God to being made into a fragile, killable human, IMO. Imagine becoming sensitive to pain for the first time in your life, when all you knew was joy and pleasure. And suddenly pain replaces it. I think that is a punishment in and of itself, that Jesus did not deserve.

The big point that you seem to be missing is that all of this is free. If you feel it is not worth the effort to follow Jesus on the basis that it sounds too good to be true, or he wasn't put through the most unimaginable pain devisable, then that is your choice to make, and your choice to live with. And die with.

Yes, I am aware of the gods no longer being worshipped. Although, it seems like worshipping pantheons of Greek, Norse, Mesopotamian, etc gods is coming into style these days.

My parting statement is this, that you, a flawed and imperfect human, are claiming that God is selfish, egotistical, did not suffer enough, unjust, stuff like that. In Christian perspective, that is incredibly arrogant. About as arrogant as a person gets. That is one of the primary reasons I found your statements offensive. Plus, its straying far from the OT in order to rag on my faith.

Paladin Dave said:

What is leading you to this train of thought? Where did Jesus ever say to follow every letter of his rules, save the two he gave the Pharisees? That you are to love your neighbor as yourself, and to love God, which you also do when you love your neighbors!

Click to expand...

Ah, truly that is the most important commands in the law, but he also said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

And his whole life story, or what few years we have recorded of it, he is living in accordance with the Laws of Moses. And statements like this by Jesus directly, or Paul indirectly suggests to me that there is more to this salvation thing than faith alone.

I have always been taught that we need to believe and show it in our actions, and let love of God and others be our motivation.

Click to expand...

There it is, our belief and actions.

And you also forget, Hell is for sinners. Jesus never sinned.

Click to expand...

He may not have sinned himself, but he took the sins of the world on as his own, and only suffered mortal punishment for it. By this rubric I think hell is slightly unfair.