Why Atheism?

[Julina]

Yes, there are such people in every group, I suppose. But I don't think hypocrites are enough to turn one away from religion.. At least it wouldn't make much sense. Example:

I believe there is a God and he believes there is a God, but he acts poorly, so there must not be a God.

Possibly one might not stick with that particular group, believing they have a reputation one doesn't want to get by association.. but I suppose there's a long stretch between there and disbelief.

I was raise in Christianity, if that's what you mean. And I was one who "just realized". You can judge for yourself whether it was "by accident". I.. I suppose I realized it intentionally, but only in that I allowed myself to think about it and to be true to however I am at the time instead of trying to be how I was before.. (If there is any great difference, it is unwise, I think, to try to be how one used to be.. moments pass, never to return.) However, what I realized had been there before I allowed myself the liberty of self-acceptance and I knew before I had the courage to name the change. But the change itself.. that was not by my conscious design. I didn't decide to be an atheist, decide not to believe in a god. I wouldn't say it's by accident, though.. the change itself is nothing I did. It just is. *shrug*

Do you have any thoughts on account of my story?

it confused me a little actually :o

No on both counts.

I try to discourage sloppy thinking by discouraging sloppy expression.. if only so I can understand.

I like to know and understand people's beliefs. It helps me understand what they mean, where they're coming from, and, to some extent, people in general. I've found that plenty of people actually don't understand their own beliefs, not enough to explain them simply to a relative outsider. (I don't hold much respect for those who can't explain and won't admit it..) If my asking questions gets them to understand their beliefs and the implications thereof better, then I think that's an inherently good thing. Whether it strengthens their beliefs or causes them to rethink their beliefs doesn't matter to me.. I just think it's good if they've really thought about it.

i think you're absolutely right in saying that some don't understand their own beliefs. sometimes i think ideas about religion are just passed down from one generation to the next, and no one really thinks about it for themselves.

 

[Julina]

The way I see it now, if a religion is true, it's true regardless of how its followers behave. For me the issue of the behavior of a given faith's adherents is more a reflection of the moral integrity of the religion as a whole, and of its individual followers. A religion which justifies cruelty to others, for instance, is a religion I might reject on moral grounds, even if it were demonstrated to be true otherwise.

I can't exactly say that it was the bad behavior of a Christian which drove me out of Christianity, but it was the bad behavior of a Christian which led to my no longer fearing hell, as I realized that if being Christian meant I had to be like them, hell was preferable.

The problem is (for example) some people interpret the bible differently than others. how is that a reflection on Christianity as a whole if one person misuses the Bible to justify cruelty to others?

 

[Celticflower]

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?


Note -- I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, just that it is in interesting bit of history.

 

[gwenmead]

The problem is (for example) some people interpret the bible differently than others. how is that a reflection on Christianity as a whole if one person misuses the Bible to justify cruelty to others?

Good question. I'll see if I can clarify a bit.


I consider it a matter of enabling. If a doctrine is cruel, it will enable and engender cruelty in its adherents.

Furthermore, if you add "God says so" to the mix, that adds divine legitimacy. Some of the most dangerous people in the world are those armed with an inhumane religious ideology combined with the divine mandate to carry said ideology out. Bad juju there.

I agree that it's a problem that people interpret the Bible differently. Because how do you ever know who's got it right?

 

[gwenmead]

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?

Note -- I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, just that it is in interesting bit of history.

True that. I must admit that I do kind of wonder why some people feel they've found god and others don't... I mean I used to be a Christian, and was sure I'd found god, and now I'm an atheist. As you say, it can go the other way too.

Human brains, gotta love 'em...

 

[Bombila]

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?


Note -- I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, just that it is in interesting bit of history.

I doubt that anyone converts or reconverts as a result of investigation. You either believe, pretend to believe, or have a conversion experience.

 

[IndomitableAmy]

it confused me a little actually :o

i think you're absolutely right in saying that some don't understand their own beliefs. sometimes i think ideas about religion are just passed down from one generation to the next, and no one really thinks about it for themselves.

I'll try to explain anything you want, here or privately, so long as I'm capable... if you're interested. I know my situation is pretty unique and might even present theological problems.. (such as, what is the ultimate destination for those who biologically can't believe in God? Does it matter whether they ever did? If there's any difference for them, any exception, why should there be set standards at all?) Could be interesting. Different, at least..

And yeah, I think a lot of people don't understand what they say they believe.. and I say it that way because I can't fathom that one can really believe something without understanding even the rudimentary ideas behind that belief. I think a lot of people just know the words.. and maybe the feelings, I'm not sure.. but they don't know what their beliefs really are, what underlies them, what they mean. I think that's sad. Wrong, somehow. Especially wrong to do socially harmful things on account of the beliefs they don't even understand. Sigh. Sorry. that really is a peeve of mine.

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?


Note -- I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, just that it is in interesting bit of history.

It is interesting, the mind.. I'd say that people are different and have different ways of, um, investigating.. and have different standards of what is convincing. And more interesting than that... we probably don't have as much control of that as we tend to think we do.

 

[Morcova]

and the reason i ask if certain people geared you away from religion it's because i know there are many out there who give their religion a bad name.

Meh, I often disagree when people make comments like that. People often do things for selfish reasons then when called out on it blame something besides their own selfishness for their actions. Religion comes in handy in that regard.

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident?

I spent about 5 years in a limbo stage where I wasn't really sure what I believed when it came to god. The more I read the bible the more I believed this being could be anything other than the invention of humans.

for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

Everyone is "born" into atheism, nobody is born believing in anything. Did something happen... well... I will tell you there was a AHAH! moment, years ago I was watching a interview with Joseph Campbell on PBS, where he traced the various mythologies and showed how they all intermingeled, after watching the show I thought about my own beliefs and realized that I no longer considered my religion to be anything other than mythology. It was then that I realized I was an atheist.

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

If someone is happy with their beliefs I don't have any interest to change them. We only have one life and making someone elses miserable by pestering them to belief what I believe doesn't sound very nice.

 

[Holy Roller]

Good question. I'll see if I can clarify a bit.


I consider it a matter of enabling. If a doctrine is cruel, it will enable and engender cruelty in its adherents.

Furthermore, if you add "God says so" to the mix, that adds divine legitimacy. Some of the most dangerous people in the world are those armed with an inhumane religious ideology combined with the divine mandate to carry said ideology out. Bad juju there.

I agree that it's a problem that people interpret the Bible differently. Because how do you ever know who's got it right?

I'll disagree with this blindness, of course.
Very rarely do we come upon the adherent that adopts 'cruel' scripture and disregards or rejects the rest (them disregarding scripture is impied by you.). Sure, we got the crackpots: Falwell, Phelps. But this forum, which is a little profile of the Christian community at-large, seems to prove that Christians do not adopt just one scripture and reject the rest.
Gwenmead, do you find that most the Christian posters here rile on the 'cruel' scripture? Are they being 'enabled?"
No?
Then why this post? Why the blindness and folly?

"An easy way for the blind to go,
A clever path for the fools who know
the Secret of the Hangman - the smile on his lips.
The light of the Blind - you'll see,
The venom that tears my spine,
The Eyes of the Nile are opening - you'll see."

 

[Im_A]

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?


Note -- I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, just that it is in interesting bit of history.

for me, that fact confirms atheism. believers may say the same thing but in the opposite direction but for me, that very fact confirms why the conclusion that we atheists hold on to is the right conclusion.

 

[Eudaimonist]

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

It was a long, slow process of turning up the Light of Reason, much like leaving Plato's Cave.

At what point does night turn into day? At what point do greyish, shadowed objects become bright and colorful? There was no exact moment for me. No noticable moment of transition to atheism, but rather many small epiphanies that culminated in my Rational Enlightenment.

Becoming an atheist was never my explicit purpose. Seeking to see clearly was. You could regard it as a spiritual quest.

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

If anyone wants to debate me, that's fine. But I never go looking to deconvert anyone. In fact, I have no idea how to deconvert anyone.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Arnaud]

you don't have to be atheist to believe in evolution

Oh, definitely. It's just that the lessons on evolution are what triggered a more scientific way of looking at things in my mind.

 

[franklin]

One thing I find interesting in all this : Atheist will say that they don't believe in God because after really investigating the issue it makes no sense. Yet we can find former atheists who, after really investigating the issue, come to the conclusion that there is a God. Hmmm, the human mind at work is fascinating don't you think?

So how do you think these so called former atheists who are now "believers" have come to the conclusion that there is a God? By what method of inquiry did they apply that convinced them God is real after all?

You see, it comes down to one of two conclusions. Either God exists or He does not exist. IF such a God does exist, why the need to investigate anything? Is it necessary to investigate the existence of gravity? How long do you think it would take to conclude that gravity is real?

Probably just a couple seconds.

Man has been trying to prove the existence of God for the past few thousand years or so. Ever notice that?

Hmmm, I wonder why?

 

[Nooj]

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

I don't see the purpose of 'converting' friends to atheism when they seem perfectly content being religious. I don't want to disturb them (that is, unless they want me to) and they don't want to disturb me either.

But I do like debating religion, which I do here. I don't come here looking to deconvert people, I come here to question and learn in turn.

 

[Im_A]

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

no, i just let them be. i'm not a John the Baptist atheist.

i will gladly partake in any kind of discussion or debate about the topic, but my intention is for conversation and to give another side to think about. it is never to kill the faith someone has.

 

[NegativeCool]

so it seems like most atheists just "realized" that they didn't believe. is this ever by accident? or on purpose? for example, did something happen to make you not believe, or were you born into atheism?

I don't think many atheists just wake up one morning and decide that there are no gods, at least for me it certainly wasn't like that. For me it happened over time, things just didn't add up and the evidence that the notion of gods was merely a human contraption slowly mounted until it reached a point where in my mind the liklihood of gods being real was less than the liklihood of them being imaginary.

and do any of you try to convince others that there is no God/gods? or do you just let them be?

Why would I just let them be? I value intellect, investigation, free thought. I don't tell my friends that they are wrong, but I do challenge them to examine their beliefs.