Why Atheism?

Holy Roller said:

Ummm, I never accused you of being inconsistent, cognitive.
BTW, thanks for not using the 'F' word...

Click to expand...

I suppose 'mucking about' is a cultural phrase of my neck of the woods, I was not insinuating the 'F' word.

Holy Roller said:

Two non-swear-words in a row!
Uncommon indeed...

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I haven't sworn once since I've been back here.

No darling, its a well known phrase here too so its not just a caper thing.

Holy Roller said:

My responses to the Atheists are more articulated than you think, MintyAngel. If you were to take a cursory glance at them they may initially seem somewhat offensive and high in ridicule, but my dialogue is actually precisely metered and measured.
If you venture outside this or the other agnostic-centric forums, you'll note with a high degree of relief that I am actually very courteous. Call this fluff, but the quiz on beliefnet.com says I am.

Click to expand...

Please, call me Minty...MintyAngel is so formal

So why have your posts read 'somewhat offensive and high in ridicule' in the first place?! What purpose does that serve? All that happens is people take all that you say the wrong way. Write the way that it should sound and then there will be no ambiguity.

It would be so nice if you could just be nice...is that so much to ask? I have been nice to you and all I get are razz faces all the time

sacredsin said:

No darling, its a well known phrase here too so its not just a caper thing.

Click to expand...

and I thought I committed some new Christian sin... pity.

But the problem begins when they attack Christianity in general. I'd say certain of Atheists are justified if they focus their efforts on the crackpots like Jerry Falwell or Phelps. But they don't; they attack Christianity (and us Jews) in general, assuming the crackpots speak for everyone.

Click to expand...

Some do, some don't it's basically an assumption this is an absolute. Let's face it for those who don't study theology or look at Christianity from an objective and open mind will naturally see it as an absurity or as negative. Christians are guilty of the same exact thing, like you. You seem to be attempted to group all of us skeptics together under a sterotypical umbrella and I know people who think I'm a terrible, bad person due to not beliving in God. Being a skeptic can be hard. If you try to use scriptual and non-philosophical arguments in a middle of a anti-theist compound, you will tend to get bashed like you would in any other forum (despite ideology).

They assume that any Christian/Jew is a 'fundie', and with it, accuse the believer of thinking the earth was made in six days or something. This is bad for Christianity, because the crackpots do believe in those childbook stories of creation.

Click to expand...

You got to admit the OT is pretty sketchy and takes either a lot of looking into/studying the context either that or a very dedicated and almost blind belief to accept it as literal fact (without reading it from a certain way or particular context). Religion in general is something that is really larger-than-life or mystical and tends to be something outside of the traditional scientific line of thought. Let's face it Christianity from a certain point of view can be put on the same level as mythology, even though I see a bit more substance in it especially in the NT. And to be honest Christians/Jews and Christianity/Judaism can make itself quite an easy target thanks to a lot of the ignorant practicers that follow the belief systems and the actions or things people do that is inspired by their belief and sometimes the sheer lack of comunication between the parties.

By painting Christians with this broad brush, they harm the whole apparatus. I am here to defend the apparatus.
I agree, of course, with your statements about Carl Sagan, and thoroughly enjoy reading his books (Demon-haunted world is spot-on 98% of the time. Here he seems to critisize psychotherapy with a greater zeal than that for religion--a sensible approach. It's patently clear Sagan is acutely and shrewdly aware of the social benefit Christianity and Judaism play for humanity).

Click to expand...

Well the same could be said about Christians who broadly paint a particular image for atheists/agnostics and people from other religions. Again its a two way street. You seem to broadly pain atheists and generalize behavior and belief based on actions of a few, which is what atheist tend to do. Same for Islam, etc. I though am glad you at least appreciate Carl Sagan.

One thing about the Demon-haunted world is Sagan seems to be perhaps too preoccupied with the emergence of the occult. THe occult is hogwash, sure, and alot of persons call those psychic hotlines, sure, but let's not forget that the very people calling those hotlines or visiting the palm-readers would never visit a science lecture hall or open a Scientific American mag in the first place, so there's nothing lost there.
Sagan may have wanted to force science on people.This to me seems noble at first, but it's a failing cause, since I believe people were born scientists; they aren't made. Just my $2...

Click to expand...

Well I can relate to Sagan. I think a lot of that physic stuff and people confiding in such mediator or outlets can be negative and have an effect or make people dependent, follow it without question, or simply stop man from taking the personal initative in favor of such beliefs. So I can see why one would be a bit more agressive towards what I think are a bit more petty superstitions (like a physic), but I can also see why one may have concerned about prominent beliefs or system of beliefs (which serve both positive and negative sociologial roles) Regardless of what a person believes being a skeptic or teaching people sciene and rational thought is never negative and isn't forcing. I feel that is a public service. Scientists are made and aren't born Einstiens, in my view. I view despite your beliefs the scientific method and rational thought should be at the center of it. No most people won't be like Sagan attending the science convetions, etc. but not everyone has to be misled by certain ideas or at least blindly accept ideals without a healthy skeptic attitude.

I know quite a few intellgent religious people, and I don't treat them any differently because of their beliefs. We just have to draw the line between those who are like Fred Phelps and those like St. Thomas Aquinas.

That's my $20

Sacredsin, Cognitive...you guys crack me up

MintyAngel said:

PLease, call me Minty...MintyAngel is so formal

So why have your posts read 'somewhat offensive and high in ridicule' in the first place?! What purpose does that serve? All that happens is people take all that you say the wrong way. Write the way that it should sound and then there will be no ambiguity.

It would be so nice if you could just be nice...is that so much to ask? I have been nice to you and all I get are razz faces all the time

Click to expand...

Why would you suggest that? The way I see it is the more offensive he becomes, the closer he comes to breaking his little moral obligations to god. If I am indeed going to hell, I want company.

Holy Roller said:

Sorry Minty...
...just had to do it...
...lol...

Click to expand...

Who is it?

Holy Roller said:

Sorry Minty...
...just had to do it...
...lol...

Click to expand...

Why thank you, its an honour to be compared to her. Shes quite the sexy woman indeed, thank you for your compliment.

Cognitive said:

Why would you suggest that? The way I see it is the more offensive he becomes, the closer he comes to breaking his little moral obligations to god. If I am indeed going to hell, I want company.

Click to expand...

...good point.

MintyAngel said:

Sacredsin, Cognitive...you guys crack me up

Click to expand...

Hehe. *bows" Mi'lady, glad to be of service.

Holy Roller said:

...again...

Click to expand...

Nah dude, Cognitive is way hotter. He's the Vin Deisel to your Mr. Adams.

sacredsin said:

Hehe. *bows" Mi'lady, glad to be of service.

Click to expand...

I'm the one that should bow

Oh...the Addams Family...they were cool...I always wanted to be Wednesday...thanks for the compliment, HR

Holy Roller said:

So there we have it. Atheists? Care to debate this definition of your faith?

Click to expand...

Atheism is not a faith, and is not a religion. Your continued insistance that it is does not make it so.

I do not believe in your god. Period, end of sentence. I also don't believe in zeus, the sun god ra, or the flying spaghetti monster. That's it. It's got nothing to do with what I DO believe in. It's got nothing to do with worship, meetings, community, or anything else. I just don't believe in god. Period. But you know this. I know you do. Yanking chains seems to be a hobby, eh?

Now if that had been a pic of Sean Astin instead of John Astin

GryffinSong said:

Atheism is not a faith, and is not a religion. Your continued insistance that it is does not make it so.

I do not believe in your god. Period, end of sentence. I also don't believe in zeus, the sun god ra, or the flying spaghetti monster. That's it. It's got nothing to do with what I DO believe in. It's got nothing to do with worship, meetings, community, or anything else. I just don't believe in god. Period. But you know this. I know you do. Yanking chains seems to be a hobby, eh?

Click to expand...

WHAT!!! You deny the divinity of "He Of The Noodly Appendage"?!?!

GryffinSong said:

Atheism is not a faith, and is not a religion. Your continued insistance that it is does not make it so.

I do not believe in your god. Period, end of sentence. I also don't believe in zeus, the sun god ra, or the flying spaghetti monster. That's it. It's got nothing to do with what I DO believe in. It's got nothing to do with worship, meetings, community, or anything else. I just don't believe in god. Period. But you know this. I know you do. Yanking chains seems to be a hobby, eh?

Click to expand...

...This post kinda came out from left-field...

In a thread entitled "Why Atheism?"

Holy Roller said:

...This post kinda came out from left-field...

Click to expand...

If that is the case you should have seen it...

The poster is very correct though, just because some Atheists treat Atheism like a religion of science with the Dawkins god... does not mean we all feel that way. Atheism is simply the rejection of gods, it is only recently that additional titles have been added to it to make specific types of Atheism.