Why As Catholics We Ought To Reject Capitialism

[Simon_Templar]

Capitalism is simply freedom.

The woes of capitalism exist because of the fact that human nature is sinful.

Turning to socialism to right the wrongs in a capitalist system, is like cutting off your head to get rid of a brain tumor.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Rabbi Daniel Lapin says this idea of charity, to give to someone in need with the intention that they will pay it back, or pay it forward, is charity in its truest sense. When you give to someone and take away their ability to pay it back, you destroy their soul.

What happens when the person is unable to pay back to begin with, do you just ignore them for the sake of not destroying their soul?

The idea of Christian charity is to help a person in need without regard of repayment or them paying forward.

If you rationalize when to be charitable, you'll end up following your own agenda.

Its a good thing Mother Teresa never followed the Rabbi's logic.


Jim

 

[Aymn27]

Capitalism is simply freedom.

The woes of capitalism exist because of the fact that human nature is sinful.

Turning to socialism to right the wrongs in a capitalist system, is like cutting off your head to get rid of a brain tumor.

Not to mention that most people who abhor capitalism actually abhor corporatism - free market capitalism is not what we have here now....

btw..how ya been bro?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And yet we have Catholic credit unions that seem to contribute to this???

It is confusing when I see what appear to be contradictions. After all, what is Usury and when is it a Sin?

Understood in the context of the culture and history when this was written, when a person borrowed money from a lender, they not only owed interest, they owed their lives and that of their families should they not pay back. The literally became slaves when they defaulted in repaying the loan.

This is different than the modern banking system, which is actually based on the system set up by the Knights Templar, where interest is paid on a loan. When the loan payment falls in to arrears, the person doesn't become a slave to the lender, but the property used as collateral is taken in possession.

Credit unions are no different than banks in this regard. They'll repossess a car from a defaulted auto-loan just as fast as a bank will.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Capitalism is simply freedom.

The woes of capitalism exist because of the fact that human nature is sinful.

Turning to socialism to right the wrongs in a capitalist system, is like cutting off your head to get rid of a brain tumor.

Unbridled capitalism can and has in the past meant, enslavement for the majority of the people.

Visit Central America to see the effects of unbridled capitalism.

Jim

 

[Hairy Tic]

Scripture speaks of all Christians pooling all they have and using it for all. Interesting that they were able to live this way and we are not.

## They did not have the complex social arrangements that are part of life in large nations; & they avoided many complications by not having to be responsible for government, defence, trade, education, & so forth. Christians today, especially in societies more or less Christian, do not have that luxury. They were in the happy position of being like free-loaders, without needing to be selfish in the way free-loaders are; another luxury we do not have. They had no social responsibilities; we do. Jesus had no social teaching - Popes and Churches have to. Christianity works best for small groups - in a nation or Church of millions, too much goes wrong for the small-scale communism they practiced to be feasible. There are too many people in it for that.

Besides, pooling possessions is no good - people are often unable to appreciate what others possess, so those others might as well keep their possessions, possessions they appreciate, even if no one else can. Equality is an atrociously bad idea - what is needed, is not equality, but equity. The source for that distinction ? Fulton Sheen, actually, in "The World's First Love". To want equality is sheer lunacy, because it is a fact, not a fiction, that people are unequal in countless ways. To want equality is to fight against the nature of the universe, it is to chase after unreality. Besides, society would eventually return to what it was, with the poor at the bottom & the rich at the top. Christian communism is Utopian moonshine - not a practical or desirable goal.

Capitalism is very imperfect, but life is imperfect; one cannot always have the best possible social arrangements, so one makes do. Compromise is necessary. If Jesus had come when He said, the present unsatisfactory state of affairs would have been much less complicated. The Churches had to adapt to His non-appearance. So they gradually did. Leading, very much later, to the present time.

 

[benedictaoo]

Turning to socialism to right the wrongs in a capitalist system, is like cutting off your head to get rid of a brain tumor.

err, ah, I'll sell the hammer and you sell the nails, is socialism, in what way?

Capitalism is, I'll sell everything and you just work for me (for next to nothing) and shut up and like it.

How in the world is that freedom?

 

[Antisock]

Scripture speaks of all Christians pooling all they have and using it for all. Interesting that they were able to live this way and we are not.

Thats the whole point.

They didn't do so out of a mandate.

They did so out of the goodness of their hearts.

They wanted to and willed to share and though many do not live in communal settings hiding out in caves any more, good Christians still do share from their abundance.

That is the spirit of Christ.

The latest statistics from the Census Bureau report an increase of more than 1% over the previous year in the numbers of children and families living below the poverty line in the United States.

This is point of the Christmas spirit that we should have all year long. That they have in every monastery or cloister and should have in every family.

To always be willing to help the less fortunate with necessities in gratitude for the blessings we have received.

 

[ScottBot]

err, ah, I'll sell the hammer and you sell the nails, is socialism, in what way?

Capitalism is, I'll sell everything and you just work for me (for next to nothing) and shut up and like it.

How in the world is that freedom?

Well, for starters, that isn't capitalism, its sorta corporatism and sorta socialism.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, for starters, that isn't capitalism, its sorta corporatism and sorta socialism.

I agree.
I was like whoa.. how is that capitalism..?

Obviously a company cannot produce goods or services if they do not purchase items they need to build with....from someone else.

I don't get the anger over capitalism.

It only means that someone is able to go out - start a business - have stock holders if they can - and make an income.

Some are successful, and many are not.
That's why they are called entrepreneurs - someone taking a risk.
AND in no way - doing it small scale.

Ya know - the average small business needs operating expenses to be met to even start.
They dont just go somewhere and say 'I am going to open a business on my good looks.'

They either borrow or save to get started - which in itself is a risk.

These people dont usually start out wealthy - they worked long hours to compensate for their lack of being able to pay salaries.
Once success is achieved - most people think they just popped up and viola - there they are.

So its BY NO MEANS - as tho they didnt work for peanuts to start with. IT by no means - means that they didnt work hard to begin with.

BECAUSE the average business owner - MUST pay their salaried people BEFORE they get paid... living OFF less than their workers sometimes.

Really, research the start of businesses people.

AND if a worker wants to gripe over their pay wage - they always have the option and opportunity to start their own business...

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Subsidiarity and Distributism: the Catholic way to go! Try reading up on Hilaire Belloc's works regarding Distributism.

"Usurious-Capitalism", "Corporatism," and "Socialism" are fundamentally, anti-Catholic.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Not to mention that most people who abhor capitalism actually abhor corporatism - free market capitalism is not what we have here now....

btw..how ya been bro?

I am well. Good to see you!

Also your point is well made!

 

[Simon_Templar]

err, ah, I'll sell the hammer and you sell the nails, is socialism, in what way?

its not, unless the hammer belongs to me and the government takes it from me and gives it to you so you.

Capitalism is, I'll sell everything and you just work for me (for next to nothing) and shut up and like it.

How in the world is that freedom?

Well its not... but its also not capitalism.

Capitalism is, pure and simple, private ownership of property. Nothing more and nothing less.

Capitalism is the belief that I am free to do what I feel is best with my own things.


As Aymn pointed out, the US is not a truly capitalist system. Its just the closest that currently exists (to my knowledge). Though ironically given the directions and trends of the US and other nations, places like China may soon surpass the US as we become more controlled and they become less.

 

[SolomonVII]

.......

Capitalism is, pure and simple, private ownership of property. Nothing more and nothing less.

Capitalism is the belief that I am free to do what I feel is best with my own things.


As Aymn pointed out, the US is not a truly capitalist system. Its just the closest that currently exists (to my knowledge). Though ironically given the directions and trends of the US and other nations, places like China may soon surpass the US as we become more controlled and they become less.

Capitalism is also a way of looking at the world as well, where it is considered a good thing to amass capital, and invest in the hopes of creating wealth.
It sees wealth as a good thing for a society, a healthy thing even, rather than as an evil.
It might also be pointed out as well that it is through capitalism that large segments of the population were enabled to emerge from the subsistence level poverty that is the typical human condition for the ninety-nine percent.
Serfdom, slavery and servitude were the usual means of for people to eke out a living before the age of capitalism. It is not exactly as if exploitation was invented by the capitalists, as is the socialist myth.
What capitalism did was enable enough wealth to be created that the common man can now live at a level that even kings in the age before the capitalist revolution could not.

While it is certainly true that God always wanted freedom for his people, as became explicit during the Exodus, what was not so apparent was to how such freedom could be realized. Capitalism, as developed by the stern Calvinistic stock of Europe, showed us a way.
We Certainly don't have to glorify capitalism as being God's system.

But what is really foolish—for anyone who enjoys pecking away at a keyboard and the system that has delivered us such luxuries anyways—is to reject capitalism as if there is something better out there waiting for us.

There really is not.
and it is not just an form of insanity, but a true moral insanity for people to pretend that there is, or even ever has been. To reject capitalism outright is the road back to serfdom and slavery. It is to become peons of the godless secular State that is emerging now everywhere.

What should be understood about capitalism though is that it requires character and a people with high moral character in order to succeed into anything worthwhile. Capitalism informs us how to create wealth, but it does not itself make any moral judgments outside of that. Like science itself, it is a method more than an ethical system.
And with great wealth comes great responsibility. As on Wall Street, so now in China. If Christ, by any other name, is not present in the hearts of man to give a sense of purpose and a goal to the wealth being generated, the possibility of great evil becomes magnified too.

There is reason enough to concern then in a world such as the one we are now entering.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Subsidiarity and Distributism: the Catholic way to go! Try reading up on Hilaire Belloc's works regarding Distributism.

"Usurious-Capitalism", "Corporatism," and "Socialism" are fundamentally, anti-Catholic.

There are Co-ops.
So in a capitalistic society - people have the option to co own the company they work for.
This is also close to how owning stock in the company you work for as well.

But having capitalism helps allow these organizations to exist. Otherwise, in pure form, it might not work.
Capitalism is freedom.

There could be downfalls to Distributism. Like being unable to leave a job you no longer like - as a small example - since removal of capitalism might extend to loss of total career. IE - all the companies are extended and unable to hire - because the ownership is full... or something to that effect.

I dont know.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

ECONOMICS : THE COW FACTOR

SOCIALISM : You have 2 cows, so you give one to your neighbour.

COMMUNISM : You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk.

FASCISM : You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk.

NAZISM : You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you.

TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM : You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.

MALAYSIAN BUMIPUTRAISM : You have two cows, the State takes one and gives it to your bumiputra neighbour. From the milk you sell from the remaining cow you buy a bull and multiply your herd.> The State takes 30 per cent of your herd as it grows and gives them to your bumiputra neighbour. Your bumiputra neighbour has a kenduri each time they receive a cow.

UMNO-PUTRAISM : The State takes 30 per cent of your herd and parks them in Switzerland in the name of some UMNO officials or close relatives, friends and sons-in-law.

MALAYSIAN GOVERNMENT LINKED OR BUMIPUTRA CORPORATION : You have two cows. You employ mainly bumiputras to milk them. But both cows have been sent to the kenduri, so the State gives you more cows and write off the losses of the first two. After several kenduris later, you invite an American or German Corporation to turn around the losses. The Japanese have however already taken their two original cows back home to Japan.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION : You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. Later, you hire a consultant to analyse why the cow has dropped dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION : You have two cows. You go on strike, organise a riot, and block the roads, because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION : You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create a clever cow cartoon image called 'Cowkimon' and market it worldwide.

A GERMAN CORPORATION : You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION : You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You decide to have lunch.

A SWISS CORPORATION : You have 5,000 cows. None of them belong to you. You charge the owners for storing them.

A CHINA CORPORATION : You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim that you have full employment, and high bovine productivity, and arrest the newsman who reported the real situation.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION : You have two cows. You worship them.

A BRITISH CORPORATION : You have two cows. Both are mad

 

[benedictaoo]

As Aymn pointed out, the US is not a truly capitalist system. Its just the closest that currently exists (to my knowledge). Though ironically given the directions and trends of the US and other nations, places like China may soon surpass the US as we become more controlled and they become less.

Correct, we are not a true capitalist but the problem with the way things are now is those who say they are capitalist, they are really corporatist and then the other side of the coin is socialist and I'm telling, you, words can not describe how seriously over it I am.

People just need to wake up and stop supporting the government- both of these parties and the tea party- yeah right, let them get into the mix and in a few years time, they will be owned by the corporations and the banks too.

The banks and the corporations run the country my friends and if anyone thinks otherwise, then wow.

 

[benedictaoo]

Capitalism is also a way of looking at the world as well, where it is considered a good thing to amass capital, and invest in the hopes of creating wealth.
It sees wealth as a good thing for a society, a healthy thing even, rather than as an evil.
It might also be pointed out as well that it is through capitalism that large segments of the population were enabled to emerge from the subsistence level poverty that is the typical human condition for the ninety-nine percent.
Serfdom, slavery and servitude were the usual means of for people to eke out a living before the age of capitalism. It is not exactly as if exploitation was invented by the capitalists, as is the socialist myth.
What capitalism did was enable enough wealth to be created that the common man can now live at a level that even kings in the age before the capitalist revolution could not.

While it is certainly true that God always wanted freedom for his people, as became explicit during the Exodus, what was not so apparent was to how such freedom could be realized. Capitalism, as developed by the stern Calvinistic stock of Europe, showed us a way.
We Certainly don't have to glorify capitalism as being God's system.

But what is really foolish—for anyone who enjoys pecking away at a keyboard and the system that has delivered us such luxuries anyways—is to reject capitalism as if there is something better out there waiting for us.

There really is not.
and it is not just an form of insanity, but a true moral insanity for people to pretend that there is, or even ever has been. To reject capitalism outright is the road back to serfdom and slavery. It is to become peons of the godless secular State that is emerging now everywhere.

What should be understood about capitalism though is that it requires character and a people with high moral character in order to succeed into anything worthwhile. Capitalism informs us how to create wealth, but it does not itself make any moral judgments outside of that. Like science itself, it is a method more than an ethical system.
And with great wealth comes great responsibility. As on Wall Street, so now in China. If Christ, by any other name, is not present in the hearts of man to give a sense of purpose and a goal to the wealth being generated, the possibility of great evil becomes magnified too.

There is reason enough to concern then in a world such as the one we are now entering.

Now here is the reality... Wealth is created...yes, just so it can then be stolen from us via the government.

Why doesn't anyone know this? It's freedom alright, freedom to screw us.

 

[SolomonVII]

Now here is the reality... Wealth is created...yes, just so it can then be stolen from us via the government.

Why doesn't anyone know this? It's freedom alright, freedom to screw us.

It is good to look at taxation as a form of theft.
Especially if most people are not even paying into the system and they are voting to make the select few pay.
Government is necessary of course, and it must be paid for. The thing is, ultimately government power is backed with violence. If you don't pay they have the bigger guns and will be coming to get you. There is an incentive therefore to keeping government power as limited as possible with many built in check and balances.
It is not a question or either/or. Some government is absoutely necessary.

It is a question of size.

For the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

And why have the government involved, when a church or synagogue or mosque can do the organization and distribution among themselves? That is what is so important about freedoms to associate, to create the "Benevolent Orders of the Buffalo" in order to do for free what a government will do only at the cost of our freedom.

Government displaces these organizations from our lives, has made them redundant and even quaint. Government has even displaced the role of the breadwinner in the family of more and more of our citizens. As a result, what was once a relationship between an individual and a community as a whole, has now become a relationship between a government and an individual; an individual who becomes more and more isolated from any sense of community or even family.

And capitalism is not to blame for creating that state of affairs. Capitalism is only responsible for creating wealth. If we in turn hand that wealth over to government thereby creating a soulless behemoth, that is really up to us.

It should be pointed out though that the more wealth is amassed into the hands of government, the less that capitalists themselves have to invest. Killing the goose that lays the golden egg never opens up to a vast reservoir of golden eggs horded within. With the death of capitalism comes the death of wealth.

 

[benedictaoo]

I understand that capitalism is not to blame but the men and women in the government is to blame, for allowing the banks and the big business to rob America of it's wealth.

What I am saying is, the bad guys use capitalism to create wealth so they can steal it.

That is what I am saying.

Why on earth anyone wants to hang on to a system that is so easily corrupted and manipulated, escapes me.