Why are you an evolutionist?

[Butterfly99]

Is this one of these events described below?

No, cause it's pretty obvious he's joking if you just read his other posts. There are other posts I am not sure about it at all.

 

[Butterfly99]

There is more to learn, Butterfly.

I was raised, naturally investigative when growing up, and academically trained in Earth history and evolution.

At one time I called Evolution a fact, but now know in error.

Keep learning. Particularly through His Spirit about things physical.

Evolution of life forms never happened. I'm one who knows the fossil and rock record well when saying such.

Well I do plan to keep learning. I go to a magnet school for science & technology. I think I've probably studied evolution way more in depth than most ppl my age. What you're saying doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me, tbh. My mom's a minister. I think I'm alright on the spiritual side of things too. She said to not argue with people about evolution on this forum. & not to just assume that cause somebody says he's a Christian he is one. There's a lot of people who will pretend to be Christians and write ignorant things to mock us, or they'll stir up trouble just cause they want to. So I'm not gonna argue with you but I am interested. What do you mean academically trained? What college did you go to? & what did you get your degrees in? Well what do you think about stellar evolution? That's what I'm studying in astronomy now.

 

[whois]

What you're saying doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me, tbh.

how can a "mountain of evidence" be valid when it's based on assumptions?
especially when some of these assumptions are known to be wrong?
there is no evidence at all that the slow gradual process of microevolution leads to macroevolution.

 

[Loudmouth]

how can a "mountain of evidence" be valid when it's based on assumptions?
especially when some of these assumptions are known to be wrong?
there is no evidence at all that the slow gradual process of microevolution leads to macroevolution.

There is evidence that punctuated microevolution leads to macroevolution, and there are mountains of it.

 

[Butterfly99]

how can a "mountain of evidence" be valid when it's based on assumptions?
especially when some of these assumptions are known to be wrong?
there is no evidence at all that the slow gradual process of microevolution leads to macroevolution.

Gonna just have to repeat myself - What you're saying doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me, tbh. What the fellow above me wrote is right. Are you a Christian? Why do you fight so much with people? I've read some of your posts.

 

[Spiribala]

My journey to come to believe in evolution took awhile. I had a religious education that I wouldn't trade for the world. However, both my grade and high school did teach that evolution was wrong and that it wasn't possible to have a worldview which included both belief in Christ and belief in evolution. For college I started out at a large public university. Starting out I kind of drifted around, but eventually took many biology classes and that would end up becoming my major. Obviously, at all public universities, evolution is taught as fact and any intro to biology type class usually spends a great deal of time specifically on evolution - give or take a third of the semester.

At first, I was always trying to justify my beliefs when confronted with evolution. This is difficult because you're not confronted with one line of evidence regarding evolution, but a whole hosts of concepts converge on the truth of evolution like the fossil record and genetic similarities. At that time, I had very little knowledge of the idea of theistic evolution, so as my doubts about evolution were wavering, so to was my faith to some extent. It's only natural, I think for that to happen. Many people like to think in dichotomies. You're either a conservative or liberal. You're either athletic or uncoordinated. You're either a Christian or believe in evolution. And many Christians and atheists do try to push that latter dichotomy as the only way of looking at the issue.

It's also pretty natural to want certainty in your most strongly held beliefs. Being a creationist means having a simple way to grasp how the world came about. Theistic evolution however is more complicated because it brings about more questions than answers. What were the authors of Genesis actually thinking while they were writing it? Was there a literal Adam and Eve? And many others.

What helped is finding people, mostly online, who were devout Christians who believed in evolution. For people who aren't sure about evolution and what that means for their faith, it is so important to know their are more than just two options out there. It what a slow process, but I feel confident in my faith and believing in evolution doesn't take away from that at all.

 

[Heissonear]

You're wise.

Had it not been for a girl at my summer camp a couple of years ago cheerfully making an off-the-cuff innocuous comment about how some people actually believe the universe was created in six literal 24-hour days 6000 years ago, and a boisterous friend virtually back springing across the room to exclaim her passionate beliefs on Young Earth Creationism and the coexistence of man and dinosaurs, I doubt I would have encountered the terms evolutionist, creationist, YEC, or creation science in my personal life. I'd learned about literal interpretations of Genesis in religious classes (along with other creation myths around the world and throughout history), and tangentially in my history of science class, but thought it was an obsolete notion like geocentricism. At first I'd been curious to know about my friend's beliefs and encouraged her to share, but quickly regretted that because of the incredible acrimony and drama that were caused by her persistence in proselytizing about it over the weeks. The girls at camp, all of whom were devout Christians, would dispassionately and correctly respond to the factually incorrect statements about evolution being "just a theory by one deranged man who recanted on his bedside," and would then have their faith questioned and belittled. A lot of feelings were trampled on and injured, and parents got involved.

Beyond that experience I've never met anyone in person who used the terms evolutionist or Young Earth Creationist to describe themselves or others. They might be ubiquitous on this forum and a few other internet sites, but aren't ones I run into offline. I've been a Christian my entire life, but we have different hermeneutical beliefs about Genesis so there's no reason to squander energy tilting at windmills about evolution. I have followed some of the discussions on here about evolution simply because there are knowledgeable people who will provide interesting information in their responses. I do think it's smart to not get embroiled in debates about evolution, though.



I now have that song playing in my mind, haha.



I think more science curriculums are now teaching evolution in earlier grades, which I see as positive. I began to learn about it from museum visits with my family when I was 7, but didn't start actually studying it at school until the 7th grade. I just read an NPR article about a new illustrated children's book that has been praised for how well it teaches evolution.



Same. I would never describe myself as an evolutionist, or as a gravitationalist, or germ theorist. I'm a scientifically literate Christian.

Hi Ella, you still have some learning to do. Just when you thought it was settled and you are scientifically literate there is more to learn, and it reflects the Intelligence and Power of our Creator.

The lack of additional information you noticed from others "YEC", the interpretation of a 10,000 year old Earth without the appearance of "natural age", you have too have a need of additional information.

We all need to learn more. Major things to say the least.

 

[ÏsâbeŁ: אֱלִישֶׁבַע]

You're wise.

Had it not been for a girl at my summer camp a couple of years ago cheerfully making an off-the-cuff innocuous comment about how some people actually believe the universe was created in six literal 24-hour days 6000 years ago, and a boisterous friend virtually back springing across the room to exclaim her passionate beliefs on Young Earth Creationism and the coexistence of man and dinosaurs, I doubt I would have encountered the terms evolutionist, creationist, YEC, or creation science in my personal life. I'd learned about literal interpretations of Genesis in religious classes (along with other creation myths around the world and throughout history), and tangentially in my history of science class, but thought it was an obsolete notion like geocentricism. At first I'd been curious to know about my friend's beliefs and encouraged her to share, but quickly regretted that because of the incredible acrimony and drama that were caused by her persistence in proselytizing about it over the weeks. The girls at camp, all of whom were devout Christians, would dispassionately and correctly respond to the factually incorrect statements about evolution being "just a theory by one deranged man who recanted on his bedside," and would then have their faith questioned and belittled. A lot of feelings were trampled on and injured, and parents got involved.

Beyond that experience I've never met anyone in person who used the terms evolutionist or Young Earth Creationist to describe themselves or others. They might be ubiquitous on this forum and a few other internet sites, but aren't ones I run into offline. I've been a Christian my entire life, but we have different hermeneutical beliefs about Genesis so there's no reason to squander energy tilting at windmills about evolution. I have followed some of the discussions on here about evolution simply because there are knowledgeable people who will provide interesting information in their responses. I do think it's smart to not get embroiled in debates about evolution, though.



I now have that song playing in my mind, haha.



I think more science curriculums are now teaching evolution in earlier grades, which I see as positive. I began to learn about it from museum visits with my family when I was 7, but didn't start actually studying it at school until the 7th grade. I just read an NPR article about a new illustrated children's book that has been praised for how well it teaches evolution.



Same. I would never describe myself as an evolutionist, or as a gravitationalist, or germ theorist. I'm a scientifically literate Christian.

Hey there, this topic is something I have explored for some time now but before I became a Christian I really didn’t know much about YEC, OYC, ID, TE etc. I agree with Stanfordella’s comment “I do think it's smart to not get embroiled in debates about evolution.” I personally think, as Christians, as long as we believe that God created everything, that’s all that really matters, but how He did that I believe comes down to the interpretation of Genesis. Even Jesus and the apostles were completely silent on the “how” of the creation process – why is it really that important, honestly? But for those who still think it is, I’ll just share some things I’ve found helpful along the way for those who are interested (including agnostics, which I used to be, and atheists). I highly recommend the book: ‘The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief’ by Professor Francis S. Collins. He is an eminent scientist who was an atheist but later became a Christian. He offers not only scientific reasons for why he’s a theistic evolutionist (through he doesn’t like that term because it’s a loaded word and very misunderstood), but also scriptural reasons which are very interesting. Alternatively, you can also check out his website: https://biologos.org/ - but I think the book is better.

I would like to share something else, just because I think it’s pretty crazy how we can sincerely believe something right down to bottom of our core but actually be mistaken and not even realise it. And All of us are venerable to this. Therefore I think the principle of humility comes in handy. While I’m sure many have seen optical illusions before, I like looking at them to remind myself of this reality and as a kind of “evidence” of what deeply held fixed beliefs not based on truth can do to us, so here is a link to what I think are some pretty cool optical illusions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IWk5NkxQF8

Belief is a very powerful thing but the truth is the truth and it stands regardless of what we choose to believe.

Also, to Christians, if even Jesus was not able to convince everyone of the truth, why do we think we are somehow able? I think those who are open will listen and those who are not, will not. Our job is to scatter the seeds but its Gods job to make them grow. Jesus never forced it, He responded to people.

Anyhow, that’s my thoughts - hope this helps!

James 3:17 (ESV): ‘But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.’

Proverbs 27:17 (NIV): ‘As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.’

 

[whois]

Gonna just have to repeat myself - What you're saying doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me, tbh. What the fellow above me wrote is right.

there are 113 posts above the one i am quoting, you are going to have to refer to a post number.
keep in mind i have some posters on ignore for various reasons.

Are you a Christian?

no, but what if i was?
how does that change anything my sources have to say?

Why do you fight so much with people?
I've read some of your posts.

if you read some of my posts then one or the other is clear.
1. you didn't read the right posts
2. you don't want to believe what you have read.
you can start with the following link and come to your own conclusions about it:
oops, wrong link, give me a sec.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2222615/

 

[Butterfly99]

there are 113 posts above the one i am quoting, you are going to have to refer to a post number.
keep in mind i have some posters on ignore for various reasons.

no, but what if i was?
how does that change anything my sources have to say?

if you read some of my posts then one or the other is clear.
1. you didn't read the right posts
2. you don't want to believe what you have read.
you can start with the following link and come to your own conclusions about it:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2784144/

Your link totally does not say that evolution is wrong, it's about how the theory has evolved. It's also old. Why are you on a Christian forum if you're not a Christian? It's just weird to me that you spend a crazy amount of time fighting with strangers about evolution.

 

[whois]

Your link totally does not say that evolution is wrong, it's about how the theory has evolved.

correct, it does not say evolution is wrong.
it DOES say the assumptions the "mountain of evidence" is based on IS.

It's also old.

7 years can hardly be old.

Why are you on a Christian forum if you're not a Christian?

do you ask posters this question when they specifically display "atheist" as their denomination?

It's just weird to me that you spend a crazy amount of time fighting with strangers about evolution.

i know the feeling, it's equally weird to me how you can pass over valid science like this.

 

[Celticroots]

Because of the evidence that it occured.

 

[Butterfly99]

correct, it does not say evolution is wrong.
it DOES say the assumptions the "mountain of evidence" is based on IS.

7 years can hardly be old.

do you ask posters this question when they specifically display "atheist" as their denomination?

i know the feeling, it's equally weird to me how you can pass over valid science like this.

7 years is totally old for an article about science. There's way newer stuff than that. I'm not passing over any valid science. I'm putting it into place. You don't seem to know what you're talking about but you talk a lot. It seem like you're wanting to pick an argument with me. Not interested. Nah I haven't asked atheists why they're here. My mom just warned me about people who will pretend to be Christians & will behave badly & act ignorant to mock us. I didn't know what your deal was. That's why I asked.

 

[whois]

7 years is totally old for an article about science. There's way newer stuff than that. I'm not passing over any valid science. I'm putting it into place. You don't seem to know what you're talking about but you talk a lot. It seem like you're wanting to pick an argument with me. Not interested. Nah I haven't asked atheists why they're here. My mom just warned me about people who will pretend to be Christians & will behave badly & act ignorant to mock us. I didn't know what your deal was. That's why I asked.

that's fine.
but no, i'm not a creationist, although i've been called one many times.
OTOH, i consider myself relatively open minded about things like this.
at least i don't stand up there and say "there is no god".
i've said the concept is ludicrous, but since when has ludicrous been evidence?
there are things about quantum physics equally ludicrous, but have evidence to support them.
the events of today affecting the past, how ludicrous is that?
welp, get used to it, because that is one of the things i am talking about.

 

[Shemjaza]

Why are you an evolutionist?

The evidence points that way.

(I personally don't mind the label, but I would abandon it if the evidence moved against it.)

 

[Heissonear]

Well I do plan to keep learning. I go to a magnet school for science & technology. I think I've probably studied evolution way more in depth than most ppl my age. What you're saying doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me, tbh. My mom's a minister. I think I'm alright on the spiritual side of things too. She said to not argue with people about evolution on this forum. & not to just assume that cause somebody says he's a Christian he is one. There's a lot of people who will pretend to be Christians and write ignorant things to mock us, or they'll stir up trouble just cause they want to. So I'm not gonna argue with you but I am interested. What do you mean academically trained? What college did you go to? & what did you get your degrees in? Well what do you think about stellar evolution? That's what I'm studying in astronomy now.

Thank you for your sincetre reply.

You mom is right, "aguing" Evolution or Creation is to be avoided. It will not lead to Salvation or other most important things God would have us know.

Enjoy your stellar science learning. I've always enjoyed learning about Mother Nature.

 

[Heissonear]

Hey there, this topic is something I have explored for some time now but before I became a Christian I really didn’t know much about YEC, OYC, ID, TE etc. I agree with Stanfordella’s comment “I do think it's smart to not get embroiled in debates about evolution.” I personally think, as Christians, as long as we believe that God created everything, that’s all that really matters, but how He did that I believe comes down to the interpretation of Genesis. Even Jesus and the apostles were completely silent on the “how” of the creation process – why is it really that important, honestly? But for those who still think it is, I’ll just share some things I’ve found helpful along the way for those who are interested (including agnostics, which I used to be, and atheists). I highly recommend the book: ‘The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief’ by Professor Francis S. Collins. He is an eminent scientist who was an atheist but later became a Christian. He offers not only scientific reasons for why he’s a theistic evolutionist (through he doesn’t like that term because it’s a loaded word and very misunderstood), but also scriptural reasons which are very interesting. Alternatively, you can also check out his website: https://biologos.org/ - but I think the book is better.

I would like to share something else, just because I think it’s pretty crazy how we can sincerely believe something right down to bottom of our core but actually be mistaken and not even realise it. And All of us are venerable to this. Therefore I think the principle of humility comes in handy. While I’m sure many have seen optical illusions before, I like looking at them to remind myself of this reality and as a kind of “evidence” of what deeply held fixed beliefs not based on truth can do to us, so here is a link to what I think are some pretty cool optical illusions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IWk5NkxQF8

Belief is a very powerful thing but the truth is the truth and it stands regardless of what we choose to believe.

Also, to Christians, if even Jesus was not able to convince everyone of the truth, why do we think we are somehow able? I think those who are open will listen and those who are not, will not. Our job is to scatter the seeds but its Gods job to make them grow. Jesus never forced it, He responded to people.

Anyhow, that’s my thoughts - hope this helps!

James 3:17 (ESV): ‘But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.’

Proverbs 27:17 (NIV): ‘As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.’

Very nice post, Isabel.

 

[whois]

The evidence points that way.

(I personally don't mind the label, but I would abandon it if the evidence moved against it.)

i think you are confusing common sense with evidence.
i will be the first to agree that evolution makes all the rational sense in the world.
but as far as any real evidence, i haven't seen any.
i'm talking about empirical evidence for the 2 primary considerations of evolution.
1. life arose from the elements with no "outside" help.
2. bacteria can become a tree or a whale or a man.

side note:
where is this thread located?
i've looked in the physical and life sciences for it but can't find it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Hi Ella, you still have some learning to do. Just when you thought it was settled and you are scientifically literate there is more to learn, and it reflects the Intelligence and Power of our Creator.

The lack of additional information you noticed from others "YEC", the interpretation of a 10,000 year old Earth without the appearance of "natural age", you have too have a need of additional information.

We all need to learn more. Major things to say the least.

Why don't you apply that supposed extra knowledge to the evidence that has been presented?

 

[Loudmouth]

i think you are confusing common sense with evidence.
i will be the first to agree that evolution makes all the rational sense in the world.
but as far as any real evidence, i haven't seen any.
i'm talking about empirical evidence for the 2 primary considerations of evolution.
1. life arose from the elements with no "outside" help.

That is not evolution. That is abiogenesis.

2. bacteria can become a tree or a whale or a man.

Nowhere in the theory does it state that bacteria turned into trees, whales, or humans.

side note:
where is this thread located?
i've looked in the physical and life sciences for it but can't find it.

The ERV evidence is discussed here:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/endogenous-retroviruses-and-human-evolution-v-2.7911273/