Why are you an evolutionist?

What is an "evolutionist?
Is it like a communist, or a machinist?

durangodawood said:

What is an "evolutionist?
Is it like a communist, or a machinist?

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More like a satanist. Or a biologist, which is pretty much the same thing.

sfs said:

More like a satanist. Or a biologist, which is pretty much the same thing.

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Is this one of these events described below?

Butterfly99 said:

....I don't know who is serious and who is joking. My mom said some people who aren't Christians will say they're Christians and act ignorant to mock us....

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sfs said:

There is immense, overwhelming evidence that such things have indeed happened.

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not according to smith.

None of the biologists you've been quoting or citing have expressed any doubt at all that they did indeed happen.

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like i said, stating it and having empirical proof of it are 2 entirely different things.
the logical assumption would be they all came from a single source, or maybe a pool of sources, the trick is empirically proving it.

Don't worry about the entire history of life: just focus on humans and chimpanzees. How many base insertions have occurred in the last 7 million years, roughly speaking?

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a single source like this does not prove anything.
unless this can be verified by the analysis of other transient forms we could easily be using an incorrect method, or be looking at coincident data.

Butterfly99 said:

I've never heard of that before, "evolutionist". I've never in my life seen such a fuss about evolution as on this forum!!! I don't know who is serious and who is joking. My mom said some people who aren't Christians will say they're Christians and act ignorant to mock us. I guess I'm a round-earther too cause I don't think the earth is flat. Evolution is fact.

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Butterfly99 said:

Thanks for the link! Wow. Yeah I'm gonna avoid silly arguments about evolution for sure.

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You're wise.

Had it not been for a girl at my summer camp a couple of years ago cheerfully making an off-the-cuff innocuous comment about how some people actually believe the universe was created in six literal 24-hour days 6000 years ago, and a boisterous friend virtually back springing across the room to exclaim her passionate beliefs on Young Earth Creationism and the coexistence of man and dinosaurs, I doubt I would have encountered the terms evolutionist, creationist, YEC, or creation science in my personal life. I'd learned about literal interpretations of Genesis in religious classes (along with other creation myths around the world and throughout history), and tangentially in my history of science class, but thought it was an obsolete notion like geocentricism. At first I'd been curious to know about my friend's beliefs and encouraged her to share, but quickly regretted that because of the incredible acrimony and drama that were caused by her persistence in proselytizing about it over the weeks. The girls at camp, all of whom were devout Christians, would dispassionately and correctly respond to the factually incorrect statements about evolution being "just a theory by one deranged man who recanted on his bedside," and would then have their faith questioned and belittled. A lot of feelings were trampled on and injured, and parents got involved.

Beyond that experience I've never met anyone in person who used the terms evolutionist or Young Earth Creationist to describe themselves or others. They might be ubiquitous on this forum and a few other internet sites, but aren't ones I run into offline. I've been a Christian my entire life, but we have different hermeneutical beliefs about Genesis so there's no reason to squander energy tilting at windmills about evolution. I have followed some of the discussions on here about evolution simply because there are knowledgeable people who will provide interesting information in their responses. I do think it's smart to not get embroiled in debates about evolution, though.

lewiscalledhimmaster said:

Good thing you noticed that, for you won't be falling into the trap.* "Keep smiling, keep shining, knowing you can always count on me."

---
*- http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evolutionist

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I now have that song playing in my mind, haha.

essentialsaltes said:

I learned it in high school.

It was only later, in college, that I realized that there was any controversy at all about the matter. I looked into the matter in more detail, and found that the evidence confirmed the theory of evolution, and that the most charitable term I could apply to the outspoken critics of evolution was 'mistaken'.

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I think more science curriculums are now teaching evolution in earlier grades, which I see as positive. I began to learn about it from museum visits with my family when I was 7, but didn't start actually studying it at school until the 7th grade. I just read an NPR article about a new illustrated children's book that has been praised for how well it teaches evolution.

Dr GS Hurd said:

I thought I should mention that I am not an "evolutionist." There is no such thing as an "evolutionist." There are rational people who are scientifically literate. They are of all faiths, and none.

There are irrational people who are scientifically illiterate. They are of all faiths and none.

I am a rational man who is scientifically literate.

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Same. I would never describe myself as an evolutionist, or as a gravitationalist, or germ theorist. I'm a scientifically literate Christian.

whois said:

not according to smith.

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Have you actually read his articles?

a single source like this does not prove anything.
unless this can be verified by the analysis of other transient forms we could easily be using an incorrect method, or be looking at coincident data.

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What in the world is an "analysis of other transient forms"? What method are we using, and why do you think it is incorrect? How did you determine that it could be "coincident data"?

You seem to throw a lot of words at something, hoping that some of them stick. You fail to understand any of the genetics or methods that are actually being used.

durangodawood said:

Is this one of these events described below?

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Yes -- to the joking part.

whois said:

not according to smith.

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Then you have completely misunderstood him.

I note that you have not responded to my followup question: how many base insertions have there been in the last 7 million years? You used that as a reason to throw out all of the genetic evidence for evolution that's been accumulated over the last fifty years, thereby dismissing the life work of thousands of scientists. Maybe you should provide some justification for such a sweeping claim.

lasthero said:

I am extremely doubtful that you were, at any point, like Loudmouth.

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Be doubtful over being an Evolutionist all my youth and higher education? Who are you kidding?

My family could not understand it too.

There was a time I would have reacted the same too.

There is more to learn, I now know firsthand and in the face of opposition.

I have a solid education in evolution.

Have you taken paleontology from a well known paleontologist who had a comprehensive grasp of past environments and depositional history, specific to past life, the spectrum from simple to advanced biology and botany? And have been receptive and keen of all presented?

I am an academically trained Evolutionist. So who are you kidding that I was not or still don't understand the same?

Heissonear said:

Be doubtful over being an Evolutionist all my youth and higher education? Who are you kidding?

My family could not understand it too.

There was a time I would have reacted the same too.

There is more to learn, I now know firsthand and in the face of opposition.

I have a solid education in evolution.

Have you taken paleontology from a well known paleontologist who had a comprehensive grasp of past environments and depositional history, specific to past life, the spectrum from simple to advanced biology and botany? And have been receptive and keen of all presented?

I am an academically trained Evolutionist. So who are you kidding that I was not or still don't understand the same?

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Still waiting for you to deal with any of the evidence presented thus far.

Heissonear said:

Be doubtful over being an Evolutionist all my youth and higher education? Who are you kidding?

My family could not understand it too.

There was a time I would have reacted the same too.

There is more to learn, I now know firsthand and in the face of opposition.

I have a solid education in evolution.

Have you taken paleontology from a well known paleontologist who had a comprehensive grasp of past environments and depositional history, specific to past life, the spectrum from simple to advanced biology and botany? And have been receptive and keen of all presented?

I am an academically trained Evolutionist. So who are you kidding that I was not or still don't understand the same?

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For someone so well trained in evolution, why do you not respond to Loudmouth's requests to discuss the evidence he provides?

Many good answers but for me it's simply accepting the mountains of evidence.

Loudmouth said:

Have you actually read his articles?



What in the world is an "analysis of other transient forms"? What method are we using, and why do you think it is incorrect? How did you determine that it could be "coincident data"?

You seem to throw a lot of words at something, hoping that some of them stick. You fail to understand any of the genetics or methods that are actually being used.

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Are you mindful of what academic professors in evolutionary genetics, paleontologists, and historical geology present? Are you adding anything more in giving comprehensive understanding of the fundamentals and specifics of evolution?

No, you are not.

Many of us may be more educated and trained in evolution than you.

The issue is it may be hard for you to understand any other unquestionable position on evolution. I've been there. There is more.

Heissonear said:

Are you mindful of what academic professors in evolutionary genetics, paleontologists, and historical geology present? Are you adding anything more in giving comprehensive understanding of the fundamentals and specifics of evolution?

No, you are not.

Many of us may be more educated and trained in evolution than you.

The issue is it may be hard for you to understand any other unquestionable position on evolution. I've been there. There is more.

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Then discuss the evidence.

Loudmouth said:

What in the world is an "analysis of other transient forms"? What method are we using, and why do you think it is incorrect? How did you determine that it could be "coincident data"?

You seem to throw a lot of words at something, hoping that some of them stick. You fail to understand any of the genetics or methods that are actually being used.

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welcome to the list loudmouth.
you know full well what i meant.

whois said:

welcome to the list loudmouth.
you know full well what i meant.

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I don't know what you mean. That's why I am asking.

Resorting to telling a former tutored Evolutionist he wasn't.

Nothing new. It is beyond many Evolutionists to comprehend. It is Evolutionist who have yet to arrive at Earth's past history.

sfs said:

Then you have completely misunderstood him.

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can you point to how i have misunderstood him?

I note that you have not responded to my followup question: how many base insertions have there been in the last 7 million years? You used that as a reason to throw out all of the genetic evidence for evolution that's been accumulated over the last fifty years, thereby dismissing the life work of thousands of scientists. Maybe you should provide some justification for such a sweeping claim.

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i've only seen just this one analysis between chimps and humans.
if there are others then please post them.

whois said:

welcome to the list loudmouth.
you know full well what i meant.

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Can't answer his questions?

whois said:

can you point to how i have misunderstood him?

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You have misunderstood the article as a valid review of the evidence.

"Our excuse for writing an article concerning topics as diverse as the origins of genes, of cells and of language is that all are concerned with the storage and transmission of information. The article is more an agenda for future research than a summary of what is known."--Eors Szathmary and John Maynard Smith, "The Major Evolutionary Transitions"
http://ramet.elte.hu/~ramet/oktatas/Evollepes/Szathmary&JMS_1995_Nature.pdf

i've only seen just this one analysis between chimps and humans.
if there are others then please post them.

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I can show you ERV analyses that include many primate species. Would that change your mind?