Why are we so sure death is better?

[blackribbon]

Until my husband died, I couldn't understand how people get to the point of suicide. After he died, I wanted to die but mostly not to the point where I would have taken my life...I just wanted to stop living. I have zero doubt that living within God's presence can be anything less than perfect so I totally expect humanly death to be better than life.

As for suicide, I do understand how people get that low. If I didn't have my kids, there was a point where I might have considered it. I have had a "plan" though I don't know how close to implementing I have ever come. It would have been ruled an "accidental death" and it would have been successful. I am one of those people who most people would never even consider a suicide to a possibility.

I think that the trauma of my husband's death changed my brain chemistry forever....it doesn't take as much to knock me emotionally off-kilter. I don't know if it is just being alone or if there was some sort of permanent damage to how I experience life now. It is but by the grace of God ... literally ... that I face each day. I'd like to think that I wouldn't ever take my life, but I do know that can get emotionally so sad that the thought does shadow me from time to time.

It is important that people watch whom they reign hell & brimstone on. People like Dan thought he deserved hell and was unlovable to even God. "Repenting" isn't an option if you don't feel that you are worthy of anything good. Reminding people of their failures just solidifies these people's self image of having no value...here or anywhere.

 

[blackribbon]

People who are suicidal often don't have the energy to call someone and ask for help.

 

[Neogaia777]

My ex-wife used to talk about suicide, (and there were medical reasons for that) but it still broke my heart. I felt like it was me; that somehow "I" wasn't good enough for her to desire to live, but I soon found out that she would have these feeling with or without me or even if she were with someone different, somebody/anybody else (because I found out that she was this way ever since a very traumatic event happened in her life, and was and has been this way with other people before me, (other men she had been with before me), and her kids or family member's or friends could not "bring her out of it, either) so after I discovered that, I stopped blaming myself for her desire to not to want to live, but I desperately wanted to be the one to help her out and pull her out of it...

To this day she hasn't come out of it, and while we were together I tried anything and everything I could think (conceive) of to try and "bring her out of it"... but, nothing worked... just like many before me, I felt like I had failed...

Now she's all alone, and lives in an apartment complex by herself, her kids are all grown-up and are gone and have their own lives now, and she is isolated, and she isolates herself in her one bedroom apartment, and while at first, she was doing good making some new friends with some of her neighbors, she soon found out about their secrets, their secret lives, of sin...

Like, for example she found out that one of them that she made friends with was a heavy drug user/abuser behind closed doors, and their is severe fighting in the middle of the nights and on weekends, and their is a lot of traffic, and so, in short she no longer feels comfortable with most of her neighbors, so she isolates...

I helped her out in getting a puppy, so at least she has that, and she has one, single solitary friend (an older woman) that she socializes with in the apartment complex. But other than that she feels like she's all alone (and for the most part, she is) but, anyways we have been trying to reconcile and been seeing each other back and forth, (when were getting along anyways)

But, I was there one night, and she was asking how come I couldn't move-in with her and be with her all the time, like we used to be, and I tried to tell her ""honey, we lost the house remember and life circumstances separated us and and we now live in different places, and we have both gone through a lot of changes, and were just now "dating" again and trying to get to know one another (who we are now) again, and that's where were currently at, remember?". And then I told her our relationship (things) can't be like they used to be, and how we now live in separate places, and can only be with each other on a part-time basis, right now, I said...

She wanted me to move back in with her, right away, and I told her I don't think were ready for that yet... And then she said "oh, well then, what's the point?, what's the point to life and living if I can't be with the one I love, and I now don't have any kid's around and no friends or family that will have anything to do with me, so what's the point?, she said... and I told her that (now she won't admit it but she has sabotaged most of her relationships with almost everybody, but there were both traumatic and medical reasons for her behavior)

But anyways, since I had already tried everything else in the past that I could think of to pull her out of her suicidal mental state (mentality) I decided to level with her and just try and be as honest as I could with her and so, I said, "Look!, the only reason and purpose and value to anything in this life, that I have found, is the friendships and relationships we form with people, and I told her she needed to mend old relationships, or seek out new ones with people", and she immediately said loudly "I don't want to, I don't like people, I can't trust them, most of them are fake, it's too hard." She said.

I told her "I understand", but then I said to her, "In my opinion the relationships we form with people are the only truly valuable thing in this world, because I believe it/they are the only truly real thing we might get to take with us into the next one (next world.)" and then I told her: "But if you don't like and won't even try to mend old relationships or form new ones with people, in this world, and place no value at all on your relationships with people, and don't like people, in this world, then what makes you so darned (actually I said dammed) sure that your gonna be so much happier in the next one?", (I know I'm a horrible counselor, but I had to get honest with her)

Then I said/repeated "The only, ONLY possible thing we might get to take with us from this world into the next one, is the personal relationships we form, with people, while were here", and I then told her, "that is our purpose, and Jesus showed us this." And she got mad at me, and I'll admit I got a little mad back and said "Well, If you place no value at all in forming or healing and mending and HAVING (possessing) "relationships" with people, in this life, then I told "Well, then, your sure going to miserable in the next one, cause that's what it's all about, friendships, relationships, and bonds that we have/form with people...

And she started to get even more angry and so I left, and went back to my home....

I know, I'm terrible, but I had no cards to play left in my deck with her, so to speak...

Anyways, thanks for listening, God Bless!

 

[blackribbon]

You are not terrible and you can't "save" her. There is situational depression and there is mental illness depression - and the line is very thin for some people. I suspect that your wife is the later. All you can do is pray that God shows her His love to the point that she feels worthy of being loved.

There are times in our lives when we do have to walk away or be injured with them.

 

[iambren]

<staff edit> Over the last year I've gone over the people I would hurt,especially my boys, and have restrained myself.

I feel worthless and spent,being peculiar to a very special calling that I can't find. Life seems repetitive and gray. Feel like I'm merely hanging on,"Been there,done that often in my thoughts". Passion for life is gone,going through the motions,an animated corpse filling a slot.

 

[blackribbon]

Iambren...do not consider <staff edit> without contacting us first...clean out your pm box and I will send you contact number.

 

[bobross]

We care about you, iambren.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Iambren... No!

<staff edit>

And just no. As in no!

 

[Eagle Of Oz]

Iambren, hope you gave the number blackribbon sent you a call, and that you're doing ok. Praying for you.

 

[dayhiker]

I want to say I am honored that those here with struggles of suicidal thoughts have felt comfortable enough to share what is going on this deep in your heart. I want to hold what you have shared very gentle and I pray no one who reads these posts will ever treat what each of you have shared in a cavalier manner.

I've said this in the past and I feel to briefly mention it again, this is the most mature message board I've chatted on in over 20 years on the web. The love each of you share and the respect we each have for our fellow brothers and sisters really touches my heart.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I think alot of times in our lives we come to a hard place and think it would just be easier to end the madness. It would be easier if I just didn't exist anymore. No cares, no worries, no pain. But is that true? How do we know?
Do we know because of people that have had near death experiences?

Do we know because of anything tangible that can verify that heaven is real, we are all going there, and everything is perfect in heaven?

I have been thinking about this. I think alot of times we say we would rather just be dead, but most of the time we don't really mean it. Some of the time, we just need to be heard, and cared for and loved. We want proof that our life matters. But unfortunately it can't be proven until it's gone and then we are not here to assess if it's actually better without us here or not.

People say that taking your own life is selfish. You don't care about anyone but yourself. Is that true? IDK. I personally am considering that it might be a trick by the enemy to get us to "think" we would be better off. We have no proof right? But there are people every day that take their own life. What a risk! Personally I don't think people can be successful unless God allows it. That doesn't mean that that is His best plan, but since we have free will and free choice, I imagine sometimes He has to improvise because we are too stubborn and hard headed to believe that He actually knows what is going to happen and He actually DID create us, and His will will actually be done no matter how we get there.

In light of a friend who just had her bf commit suicide 2 days ago, I am having a hard time grasping "why"? He was only just becoming a man barely in his 20's. I wonder how sure he was that things would be better this way, for him, and for those he left that loved him?
We can't be sure, and for that reason alone we should not try to leave this earth before our time. We think we know what awaits us, but we don't. Sure if we are christian we believe that we will be with God and Jesus, but none of us really "know" how it will really play out.

Why do people think they "know" when they don't and they can't?

I'm also thinking of Dan and hoping that he really won't do anything on purpose to leave here sooner than he should. I am so praying that he will choose to believe what Jesus did on the cross for us and that he did it for Dan too.

ONLY those whove got their sins washed in the blood of the Lamb, Jesus, are going to heaven. Not everyone makes it to heaven (just need to make sure that this is what you meant by 'everyone going to heaven') . Everyone who is fully trusting in the perfect sacrifice of Christ and genuinely applies that to their sin account, with evidence of a changed life thereafter.... will go to Heaven.

The basic reasons we can be sure Heaven is a real place and that we are going there as Christians include :

1. The Bible can be proved to be inspired of God . Therefore, God cannot lie which means neither can The Bible lie and deceive us. The Bible says in many passages including 1 John 5:13 that we CAN KNOW (present tense) that we HAVE eternal life because of Jesus.

2. Jesus promised Christians eternal life with him , and Jesus being God cannot lie based on his nature. His resurrection from the dead proved his identity and thus everything he claimed is completely true and can be trusted.

3. The Apostle Paul was in the 3rd Heaven which is where God abides , and he gave us some hints as to what it is like , albeit not fully.

4. In modern times, many have claimed to have gone to heaven temporarily before returning to their Body. This may or may not be true...but one thing that IS true is that countless people have had a real Near Death Experience to where they experienced an Afterlife for a certain amount of time ; an Afterlife that Jesus said would occur.

5. This is subjective but nevertheless based on my Faith in Christ....I know in my Soul that im going to Heaven because of whats hes done for Me and Mankind. It is the sure hope that I have within.

5.a. I don't believe in the sting of death anymore ; instead I see it as a Graduation event .. therefore I am far less concerned about it.

 

[Neogaia777]

I have/used to have suicidal thoughts/actions, <staff edit> and was going to go through with it, but then I said "No!" I'm not going to give up that easily, I'm doing exactly what the Devil would want me to do, and I'm not going to give him the satisfaction, and I considered what it would to all the ones who really did love and care about me and thought how selfish, and thoughtless, and un-caring would I be if I did this...

And I thought about how much it would deeply hurt and break all their hearts, and I decided that I didn't want to do that and it wasn't fair to them either, I was even hospitalized (mentally) for having these suicidal thoughts one time, and/but this was before Jesus Christ really, truly, and for real this time, came into my life and we developed a deeply personal, very intimate, real actual "relationship" together...

I "thought" Jesus and I had a relationship before, (when I was going through these things) but we really didn't, (mostly because I wouldn't use the words of my mouth in prayer and dig down really very, very deep inside myself (and this wasn't very easy, at first anyway) and try my absolute best to/and express my real, true God's honest feelings about the way deep, deep down, and with very much honesty, How I really, really, deeply truly and honestly felt about absolutely everything under the sun, inside (in prayer)

After I began and as I continued "sharing" and voiced and put into words and dug down really deep (in my heart, in my soul, in my mind, in my spirit) and got really truly honest (with him) I began to feel so comfortable (after a while) that I felt like I could just "talk" to/with him, just like I was talking to a friend, and now he is my best friend, and we now have a truly loving, everlasting very deep intimate and very personal, actual, "real" relationship with one another...

I can/could share anything, and I mean anything with him now, my personal opinions on about things my thoughts and ideas, my deepest problems over things, and he knows and he truly understands, I have told him things (using my voice out loud in prayer, and it also did me a lot of good to "hear" my own self honestly "say/voice" it) Anyways, I have told him and shared things with him that would absolutely shock and stupify and that I would never, ever tell anyone else, and he accepts me anyways...

And once I started doing this (and continued in doing this), it made me feel as if a great weight had been lifted of my shoulders, I had been 100% completely honest and truthful and real with him and myself and I would discuss the issue until I felt that it was completely "settled" and therefore "done" and over with and I could even, if I really wanted to, truly put the whole issue "behind" me, it having been fully honestly, deeply and truly fully explored and settled, and could put it away and be done with it for good, and move on with my life, put my past completely behind me and move-on and move forward into the "present" moment, and maybe have a few passing thoughts about the future, (which I would also discuss with him)

Now, the hardest for me in this whole process was really having to get and dig down so very, very deep and get truly, and I mean truly completely 100% percent "honest" with him about my problems, and the great difficulty came in one: getting really, truly, wholeheartly "honest" with both myself and him, and two the very difficult task of putting my 100% wholeheartedly "honest" things about myself, into (forming them) into words that could some out of my mouth, I had to really spend some quality time thing hard about this, getting 100% truly honest, and "leveling" with him and your own self is not as easy as it initially sounds, but I can guarantee you that it is all well, well, way "worth it" in the end...

Lambren, have done, tried this, this real true honest with him and yourself, with words, approach yet, could it possibly help you, as it helped me?

If you haven't done it, or tried it yet, I would strongly suggest giving it a shot, after all, at this point, what have you got to lose? (and I can guarantee you that you have everything to gain if your willing to "try" and make this effort)

Anyways, I will be praying for you, and by all means, please don't kill yourself, and if you wish to private message me, you most definitely can, Prayer's and hopes be with you, God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I have had Conversations with God about death, and dying, and I said to him:

"You know now, I really am not suicidal and don't want to necessarily die right now, (even though I know the next world has got to be so much better than this one and their is part of me that is anxious, and longs for that time), but that doesn't make me suicidal or means that I necessarily want to die right, right now..."

"I feel like there is still a lot more (just more) that I can work on doing here, now, in this world, like learning to be more socialable and mending/healing/reconciling old relationships and forming new ones with as many people as I can, (because I feel these are the only truly valuable things that you may be able to take with you, when you go)

It is also true, that at this point I really don't care "when" I go, but I'm not suicidal, I'm pretty confident that the path I've left behind me, thus far, has been a good and worthwhile one, (and I hope God agrees)

So, I really don't care "when" I go... I could get killed in a car accident tomorrow and have no regrets, so, I really don't care when I go (I no longer fear death), but I do not long for it either, well, that's not completely true, sometimes I do, for example I have said to God, "thank you for my life, and I am fully satisfied with it, and if I die say tomorrow, and go home to you, I would have no regrets...

I have said to him though, "I'm not looking forward (however) to living to a very ripe, age old age, when life becomes full of pain(s) and the slow betrayal of our bodies, begins to bring us nothing but pain and suffering and misery",

And I have said to him, "So, because I'm not fond of pain, if I were to go sooner, rather than later, (sometime before I begin to experience all the pain, suffering and misery of the ravages of old age) I think that would be mercy on your part, oh, Lord God Almighty, but all that, is not really up to me, but is in your hands, Oh, God..."

"So, I might die tomorrow, or I might live to one-hundred, it is all in your capable and all-knowing hands, just know that I have no regrets, and really don't care, doesn't matter to me either way, exactly when I go, when my time comes, I will rejoice in it, because it means I'm coming "home" to you, Oh Sovereign Lord God Almighty.

But I will live and do in this life as long as you want me to, and do in it as you would have me do, as I said, it's all in your all-knowing, fully competent and capable, loving hands, Oh, Sovereign Lord, so... I'll see ya, when I see ya, oh Lord God..."

In Jesus Holy name, Amen!

 

[blackribbon]

It is easy to follow God when everything is going good...but that doesn't say anything about your faith. Great things are mostly only done by people when they were in crisis or weakness....be it Job or David or Ruth or Esther, etc.... and fast forward to modern times and people like Joni Eareckson Tada. That is so we can give the glory to God and not to ourselves.

 

[iambren]

In case anyone is/was overly concerned,I am not close at all to suicide. Just was laying my feelings out in my usual blunt way. Don't have the $$$ now for a therapist but may go if needed.

Would death be better? I think so,for me,I could use a change of scene but God is leaving me here for a reason,hope I find it.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Iambren, with all that has been going on, you scared me a bit. <staff edit>

 

[Neogaia777]

It is easy to follow God when everything is going good...but that doesn't say anything about your faith. Great things are mostly only done by people when they were in crisis or weakness....be it Job or David or Ruth or Esther, etc.... and fast forward to modern times and people like Joni Eareckson Tada. That is so we can give the glory to God and not to ourselves.

Well, things are decent in my life (now) kind of, Recently, I lost my home, my wife and kid were put out and I went to take care of my sick and dying (on hospice) and slept in his bedroom, since he was out in the living room in a hospital bed, anyways, me and two other family members were staying their and we were all taking care of him (changing his diaper's, feeding him, giving him, drinks, moving him around until it got to the point where he was bedridden and we all three of watched him slowly deteriorate, waste away, and die...

This lasted for about two month's, now after he died and one of his son's (my uncle) took over the house and I had no place to go, so I thought I was going to have to live out of my car in the middle of winter (Facing homelessness) (and the whole experience taught me many, many things in a short period of time)

Anyways I was facing living out of my car in the middle of winter, but then I got a call (And this whole time, the whole carefully planed perfect timing of it all I could feel and sense and knew it was all orchestrated by God, and that God most definitely had his hands in it the entire time, and I drew closer to God during this time) Anyways, I got a call from one of my cousins just right around that time, he and his wife were getting a divorce, and he needed a new place to live but only makes minimum wage on his Job, and wanted to know said he found an apartment, (that he couldn't afford alone) and wanted to know if I would move in with him and we could split rent and utilities, that way we could both afford a roof over our heads...

Now doesn't God work in strange, mysterious ways? So that's where I'm at now, it's been about three months since my grandpa passed away, and this is my life now, living with my cousin...

Well thank you all for letting me share, and thanks for listening and God Bless!

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

In case anyone is/was overly concerned,I am not close at all to suicide. Just was laying my feelings out in my usual blunt way. Don't have the $$$ now for a therapist but may go if needed.

Would death be better? I think so,for me,I could use a change of scene but God is leaving me here for a reason,hope I find it.

For the record, I think we have all proven that we all care. For me, knowing someone IRL and on this forum that committed suicide in the same week is a little much. Add your comments, and then add my step daughters bf having a heart attack and she is/was already messed up before this. Both of her parents are dead (cancer), she got divorced last year, got a DUI, hasn't had a job, and now her BF the only one in her mind that cared about her is gone. I am now very worried about her. I will be calling her later today. Not looking forward to the conversation though because there is never anything that can be said that will suffice.

Glad you aren't contemplating suicide. You have kids to think about too.

 

[blackribbon]

I didn't read Iambren's post as suicidal...more just honest his thoughts. Dan's were always more "right now" and urgent.

One key sign to look for in a planned suicide (those with a plan) is a sudden change in attitude and saying good-byes like Dan did by closing his thread and starting to hand out "thank you"s. He was closing his book and tying up the ends. There is the other kind where you act impulsively and that is harder to prevent because the person doesn't really expect to do it either.

((hugs)) to you Michelle...that is a lot of crisis going on around you...I will be praying for you.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

The thing that keeps playing on my mind is first I heard on FB about my friend's BF that <staff edit> himself. I didn't know it was <staff edit> at first but I knew he died.
Then I come on here and find out about Dan.....WOW! Ok that's 2!

Then I go on FB and find out my step daughters BF had a heart attack and died!

And after Dan I was thinking how they say everything happens in threes and then I found out about the BF! Very surreal and kind of creepy.