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Struggles by Non-Christians
Why are we saved by faith?
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<blockquote data-quote="TedT" data-source="post: 75949191" data-attributes="member: 432516"><p>Please consider to what purpose GOD created us...</p><p></p><p>I contend that:</p><p><strong>GOD wanted to create a Church, a congregation of people in full loving, holy communion with HIM in heaven <em>BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE THERE WITH HIM IN THAT REALITY! </em>They must have truly wanted love, holiness and heaven as HE defines it.</strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: indigo">How did HE find all the people in HIS creation who would like to live that way,</span></strong><span style="color: #4b0082"> after HE taught them all about it and all about the alternatives? HE asked them to make a true free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose of <span style="font-size: 15px">marriage</span> for their creation.</span></p><p></p><p><strong>How did HE ensure they really wanted all that and were not just pushed into it by HIS being all GODlike and all?</strong> Looking the same as anyone else, HE offered no proof at all that HE was divine and that HE could take us to heaven or help us learn to be pure, holy and loving but asked us to accept this on <strong>faith</strong>, ie the <strong>hope</strong> that it was all true (<span style="color: #ff0000">Heb 11:1 Now faith is <strong>the substance of things hoped for</strong>, the certainty of things not seen.</span>) because we liked what we heard so well and wanted it so much, we didn't need proof to accept it. <span style="color: #FF0000"> Faith = hope</span>, of the unseen, the unproven, hope in our eternal life in heaven with GOD in full loving, holy communion, ie fulfilling HIS reason for our creation.</p><p></p><p>By not proving HIMself overwhelmingly but hiding HIS glory, GOD allows us each to choose where we most want to put our faith by which we actually define our own reality, the world view we live in, which also defines both God and our relationship with Him from our point of view. <em> "This is what I believe"</em> means <em>"This is the way I hope the reality of the universe is."</em> <span style="color: #FF0000">2 Corinthians 5:7 We live by faith, not by sight</span> (ie proof).</p><p> </p><p><strong>FOR</strong> anyone who would choose to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose for their creation, HE promised them ELECTION to heaven, backed by the gospel promise that if they should ever choose to become evil in HIS sight losing their free will and their faith, HE would do whatever was necessary to bring them to redemption, back to HIM and back to their original true free will decision of faith in HIM.</p><p></p><p>For those <strong>elect</strong> who <em>did</em> chose to become evil in HIS sight, HE gave PREDESTINATED lives, perfectly designed to fulfill HIS promise salvation and to bring them to holiness.</p><p></p><p>Since this all happened before earth's creation, and since earth is where these people work out the redemptive purposes of their predestined lives, this is not the place where we try to find GOD but the place where we work out our already pre-made decisions and faith about HIM and return to HIM.</p><p></p><p>Of course this allowed some to reject HIM and so put themselves outside of HIS mercy, grace and love for eternity because their free will to repent and accept HIM was destroyed by three things:</p><p>1. their enslavement to sin by choosing evil</p><p>2. When their choice to reject GOD as a false GOD was proven wrong (by HIS creation of the physical universe) it meant their "free " will was now coerced by the knowledge of HIS deity so they could never choose to accept HIM as GOD by free will, which was a necessity for salvation and the heavenly marriage and</p><p>3. they could now never again have the opportunity to choose HIM by faith because what is proven is no longer faith: <span style="color: #FF0000">Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.</span> <strong>Faith is hope.</strong></p><p><span style="color: #FF0000">Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?</span> <strong>This faith / hope saves if it is not based upon proof (ie what is seen).</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>4. Due to all HIS warnings about the legal and natural consequences of rejecting HIS claims, they knew that if HE were ever to prove that HE was our creator GOD that they would be damned, but they refused to change their minds because they thought He was a liar and a false god with no power over them and they were free from HIS manipulating lies. So sure were they that they were right that HE was a liar and false god they even rejected the method of the sinful elect to escape hell by first professing faith to become elect and only then to rebel against HIM.</p><p></p><p>Thus they are condemned by their refusal to accept YHWH as their GOD, putting themselves outside of all HIS promises and self creating themselves as demons and devils eternally unable to fulfill HIS purpose in their creation, fit only to be discarded.</p><p></p><p>This method of using faith to find all those who wanted to be in HIS church is also the method on earth of using faith to find HIS now sinful church and bring them back to HIM.</p><p></p><p>Peace, Ted</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TedT, post: 75949191, member: 432516"] Please consider to what purpose GOD created us... I contend that: [B]GOD wanted to create a Church, a congregation of people in full loving, holy communion with HIM in heaven [I]BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE THERE WITH HIM IN THAT REALITY! [/I]They must have truly wanted love, holiness and heaven as HE defines it.[/B] [B][COLOR=indigo]How did HE find all the people in HIS creation who would like to live that way,[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#4b0082] after HE taught them all about it and all about the alternatives? HE asked them to make a true free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose of [SIZE=4]marriage[/SIZE] for their creation.[/COLOR] [B]How did HE ensure they really wanted all that and were not just pushed into it by HIS being all GODlike and all?[/B] Looking the same as anyone else, HE offered no proof at all that HE was divine and that HE could take us to heaven or help us learn to be pure, holy and loving but asked us to accept this on [B]faith[/B], ie the [B]hope[/B] that it was all true ([COLOR=#ff0000]Heb 11:1 Now faith is [B]the substance of things hoped for[/B], the certainty of things not seen.[/COLOR]) because we liked what we heard so well and wanted it so much, we didn't need proof to accept it. [COLOR=#FF0000] Faith = hope[/COLOR], of the unseen, the unproven, hope in our eternal life in heaven with GOD in full loving, holy communion, ie fulfilling HIS reason for our creation. By not proving HIMself overwhelmingly but hiding HIS glory, GOD allows us each to choose where we most want to put our faith by which we actually define our own reality, the world view we live in, which also defines both God and our relationship with Him from our point of view. [I] "This is what I believe"[/I] means [I]"This is the way I hope the reality of the universe is."[/I] [COLOR=#FF0000]2 Corinthians 5:7 We live by faith, not by sight[/COLOR] (ie proof). [B]FOR[/B] anyone who would choose to accept HIM as their GOD and to accept HIS purpose for their creation, HE promised them ELECTION to heaven, backed by the gospel promise that if they should ever choose to become evil in HIS sight losing their free will and their faith, HE would do whatever was necessary to bring them to redemption, back to HIM and back to their original true free will decision of faith in HIM. For those [B]elect[/B] who [I]did[/I] chose to become evil in HIS sight, HE gave PREDESTINATED lives, perfectly designed to fulfill HIS promise salvation and to bring them to holiness. Since this all happened before earth's creation, and since earth is where these people work out the redemptive purposes of their predestined lives, this is not the place where we try to find GOD but the place where we work out our already pre-made decisions and faith about HIM and return to HIM. Of course this allowed some to reject HIM and so put themselves outside of HIS mercy, grace and love for eternity because their free will to repent and accept HIM was destroyed by three things: 1. their enslavement to sin by choosing evil 2. When their choice to reject GOD as a false GOD was proven wrong (by HIS creation of the physical universe) it meant their "free " will was now coerced by the knowledge of HIS deity so they could never choose to accept HIM as GOD by free will, which was a necessity for salvation and the heavenly marriage and 3. they could now never again have the opportunity to choose HIM by faith because what is proven is no longer faith: [COLOR=#FF0000]Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/COLOR] [B]Faith is hope.[/B] [COLOR=#FF0000]Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?[/COLOR] [B]This faith / hope saves if it is not based upon proof (ie what is seen). [/B] 4. Due to all HIS warnings about the legal and natural consequences of rejecting HIS claims, they knew that if HE were ever to prove that HE was our creator GOD that they would be damned, but they refused to change their minds because they thought He was a liar and a false god with no power over them and they were free from HIS manipulating lies. So sure were they that they were right that HE was a liar and false god they even rejected the method of the sinful elect to escape hell by first professing faith to become elect and only then to rebel against HIM. Thus they are condemned by their refusal to accept YHWH as their GOD, putting themselves outside of all HIS promises and self creating themselves as demons and devils eternally unable to fulfill HIS purpose in their creation, fit only to be discarded. This method of using faith to find all those who wanted to be in HIS church is also the method on earth of using faith to find HIS now sinful church and bring them back to HIM. Peace, Ted [/QUOTE]
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