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Why are we saved by faith?

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by anon77777, May 3, 2021.

  1. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    I don't understand why we are saved by faith rather than by our works?

    What is "salvation"? To me, salvation could mean a couple of things:
    1. Being "free" from sin (no one is sinless, so I guess "free" here means that we are approaching sinlessnes)
    2. Eternally striving for the Good, for self-improvement (less sin). A sort of eternal striving in the godward direction.

    Is that correct? And if so, why is belief in Jesus the only way that we can be "saved"
     
  2. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Looking at it as receiving salvation, is really kind of a poor way of putting what God is offering a person.

    God is actually offering a person His free gift of Eternal Life. Since God is not offering this gift as an earned wage, a person can not work to receive Eternal Life.

    They must simply trust in The promised Messiah for this free gift of God's eternal Life.
     
  3. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    We are saved by faith because Christ is the object of our faith and His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)
     
  4. plain jayne

    plain jayne Active Member

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    Acts 4:11-12 = "This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

    Jesus alone can bring salvation via his death and resurrection because he is the only one who lived a sinless life. His death paid the price we could NEVER pay.
     
  5. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    I don't look at it as receiving salvation. To me I see salvation as a state of being, or a trajectory towards an ideal state. In other words, a sort of perpetual development of virtue.

    What do you mean by Eternal Life? Obviously we all die, so you must be referring to some state of being that we experience in this present life (and in the hereafter)? Please explain what this term means
     
  6. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Another way it is stated in the Bible is everlasting life. It is life with God that does not end.

    John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
     
  7. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    I don't mean any offense, but this is just rhetoric. You're not explaining how or why the faith actually saves, and what it even means to be saved. This is just word salad.

    Let us look at the quote from St. Paul:
    "being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" let's pick this apart.
    "being justified". "justified" means "declared or made righteous in the sight of God" according to a quick google definition.
    "by his grace". As far as I know, God's grace is like "God acting in/through us"
    "through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus". This part I just don't understand.

    Could you explain what this verse means? Also, can you give a definition of "salvation" because I have this idea that salvation is overcoming of sin by loving and striving for the Good, but I don't understand what Christians mean when they use the term.
     
  8. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    >Salvation exists in no one else
    What is the definition of salvation?

    >His death paid the price we could NEVER pay
    Why can't we repay God by genuine repentance and good works? In other words, by being virtuous.
    If the "debt" is already paid, then why do we have to believe?
     
  9. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    All of those things you've said are true. That is what we should do. Faith in Christ and baptism erases prior sins. Afterwards we are expected to conform ourselves to God's will.
     
  10. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    Why do we need to have faith in order for God to forgive us? Why can't we just do our best to not sin, and do our best to be virtuous?

    I just don't understand why we need faith in Christ. Can't we do good works without faith? What if we believe in God but not in Christ?
     
  11. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Having faith is a work so you are correct. Do you love Jesus Christ of Nazareth? Faith without works is dead. Be blessed.
     
  12. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    It's neither of those. It's being granted eternal life by believing in Jesus alone.
     
  13. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Because we will never achieve sinlessness. Only Jesus ever did that.
     
  14. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    What exactly is eternal life? Obviously this doesn't mean "not dying" because we all still die
     
  15. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    It means heaven and the new earth instead of hell.
     
  16. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    It appears to me that Christian theology is really about sin-accounting and not about developing virtue. What does it matter that we will never achieve sinlessness provided that we are still striving for it? Don't you think God would see someone who is striving to be perfect and say "this man has earned entrance into heaven"?
     
  17. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    Ok, so if eternal life = being granted new heaven and new earth, then:
    Salvation = eternal life by faith in Jesus = being granted entrance into heaven because you believed in Christ.
    What does that have anything to do with being a good person? Isn't the whole point of "getting to heaven" supposed to be working your way there? If it's not, then what's the point of developing virtue?
     
  18. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    No, because it's not about striving.
    We develop virtue because of God's work in us, not by trying really hard.
     
  19. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    No, that's a popular lie.
    If we could earn it, Jesus would never have needed to die.
     
  20. anon77777

    anon77777 New Member

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    Then what is it actually about?

    Ok, so you're admitting that in either case, virtue is necessary for salvation, yes? If you have to be a virtuous Christian to go to heaven, why can't you be a virtuous agnostic and go to heaven?
     
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