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300 years after Origen death. Makes you wonder why St. Clement of Alexandria and St. Gregory of Nyssa were never condemned for their support of Universalism. As far as I understand they condemned Origen for his questioning of the pre-existing of the soul.
IX.
If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema.
Anathema to Origen and to that Adamantius, who set forth these opinions together with his nefarious and execrable and wicked doctrine and to whomsoever there is who thinks thus, or defends these opinions, or in any way hereafter at any time shall presume to protect them.
And you are wrong.
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary or mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aionios is defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aionios” never means eternity/eternal/everlasting because it sometimes refer to something which is not eternal.
However, “aionios” is never defined/described, by adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything common, ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten [10] verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal/forever/everlasting.”
[1] Luke 1:33In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternity.
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]
[2] John 6:58In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]
[3] John 10:28In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
[4]John 3:15In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.
[6]John 5:24In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
[10]John 8:51In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."
[Character Limit. Continued next post]
Yes. UR is appealing. I don't want to see anyone in hell. God is not willing that any should perish. But He respects the choice of man.
The native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars who translated the 1917 Jewish Publication Society OT understood that the "state" of the word "pity" in Jeremiah 13:14 required the word "will" in English. Hebrew has "States" it does not have "Tenses."I can’t seem to find the Hebrew word translated to “will” in that passage.
I like how Iranaeus put it. For those who prefer the darkness He gives them darkness, for those who prefer the light He gives them light.
Psalm 18 came to my mind after reading that from Iranaeus.I'm glad you like it. These things are written to be reflected on.
None of this addresses my post and/or the 26 vss I quoted and discussed in any way. And OBTW posting a different translation/interpretation of a vs or vss. does not in any way show that anything I posted is incorrect. What is required is a grammatical and/or lexical exegesis of a word conclusively showing from scholarly sources that anything I posted is incorrect. Bonne Chance.I think to many people look to words on a page and try to make up a system that they think pleases God but there hearts are far from him. Is this not what the Jews did they killed Jesus because they did not know Gods heart. We look to scripture and read but if we do not understand the heart of Jesus it does no good. That is what John5:36-40 tells us, Jesus got on the people because the knew the words on the page but did not get the spirit of Jesus. He said life was in Him and Him only. When I read the Scripture I do not see the God that you see. I see the God of John6 A God who is kind to the ungrateful and wicked, Luke 7 Jesus said those who have been forgiven much love much those who have been forgiven little love little. Jesus says pray for those who persecute you love your enemy. When James and John wanted to call fire and burn those who disrespected Jesus he said no.Jesus on the cross said Father forgive them for they know not what they do, the very people who are killing him he wants forgiven. So I see a different spirit of who God is than you that’s all. I read the scripture and I see life for all of Gods creation just as Jesus said he will lose none. The problem I think a lot of people have is the don’t understand the big picture of what God is doing to redeem his whole creation. We see all the bad stuff from creation till now and do not understand that this is just the process to get us to the place that 1Cor15 says God will be all in all , he will win over all his enemies with love and in the end his desire and will are both done , then He will have fellowship with his whole creation not just a small fraction. Jesus 100% satan0% that’s the way I see it and you can analyze all the verses you want but unless they are put through the lense of Jesus they are just words on a page.
Psalm 18 came to my mind after reading that from Iranaeus.
To the merciful you will show yourself merciful.
To those with integrity you show integrity.
To the pure, you will show yourself pure.
To the crooked you will show yourself shrewd.
He gives them darkness, for those who prefer the light He gives them light.
No, your Luke verse needs to agree with the further expounding exegesis of the two verses in Matt or you have to prove 'your 1/2 truth' understanding of Luke makes the whole truth a lie, in Matt.
KJV MAT 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world/AION, neither in the world/AION to come.
So EITHER the first AION and second AION both mean an 'age', OR They are both translated (Incorrectly/our opinion) as 'eternity'. A position which just makes no sense at all to translate it as "it shall not be forgiven him neither in this eternity neither in 'the eternity' to come."
Bon Chance.
Mea Culpa, mea maxima culpa."Bonne chance" surely, chance being a feminine noun in French? Just sayin' as I know how much you like linguistics.
Mea Culpa, mea maxima culpa.
"Bonne chance" surely, chance being a feminine noun in French? Just sayin' as I know how much you like linguistics.
In the movie The Patriot a "French Officer" said Bonne Chance to Mel Gibson. I assumed it meant "good Luck.Hence Lady Luck I suppose.
Now, go write your 'opinion' to the authors of the 2 NAS translation bibles that I have quoted from. Bibles from two different publishing companies. Then tell them your 'opinion'. I'll be surprised, for sure, if they say your opinion trumps the margin notes in their/my Zodhiates Greek Hebrew Key Study Bible OR their/my Holman Bible Publishers bible.
Both genuine 'leather bound editions'. Maybe that will impress you, as little as your above 'opinion', did not impress me concerning my 'opinion'.
In the movie The Patriot a "French Officer" said Bonne Chance to Mel Gibson. I assumed it meant "good Luck.
I am pretty sure that, by the time Judas took his own life, he was wishing that he had never been born.
He had been one of the 12; chosen by the Messiah, someone who saw, and performed, miracles. He ended his life in despair, having betrayed Jesus, who he possibly thought might save himself at the 11th hour.
Judas was not expecting the resurrection - as none of them were. He also did not understand that Jesus' death was God's plan; prophesied long before. He was remorseful at having denied Jesus, was faced with leaders who did not care because they had got what they wanted, and died alone and in despair.
Well said. All the copy and pasted analysis we see here trying to defend the idea of God as Torturer is not really very convincing. And why, because who wants a God like that anyway?
Could it possibly be that the reason belief in universal reconciliation has never gone away is because it's the truth that scripture points to?
If you honestly believe this, you are very close to ECT anyway imo.
We know for a fact that death will be done away with and we will have a new earth/heavens and the former will be passed away with.
Hell and death were cast into the Lake of Fire. This fire consumes.
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