Why are they gay?

[relspace]

Oh bite me, she is Christian. Saying someone isn't because they think differently is breaking the rules!

Did I misunderstand? When cygne said,

I can see here that Christians are criticized more heavily than anyone here. That is a stronger hatred of all. I'm just stating it as I see it.

What God thinks in these matters, is of far more importance. If we are just the messengers, you are not getting very far with your hatred of us.

I thought she was characterizing this discussion as one between Christians and "others" (including you). So I thought I should remind her that everyone here is Christian.

Ha, the typical silly defense of homophobes. Let's put murderers in here...and pedophilacs and say it is just as bad as homosexuality.....

Ahhh.... theres the "h" word being used for "infidel" again. How dare anyone question your beliefs. How dare anyone mention pedophilia in an argument to you.

He believes that homosexuality is against the law of God and therefore he is arguing that calling it love is not an adequate defense. This is a sound argument, for it is typical in many types of non-acceptible behaviors (like verbal and physical abuse) that the perpetrators call what they are doing love. So the proper response to this argument is not to yell "infidel" (or "homophobe") but to attempt the calm application of reason.

It is clear to me that the love is as varied as people and that that love and good are two different things. When a wife is murdered, who is the prime suspect? Love can follow many twisted paths. How then are we to judge when something which is called love is also a good and wholesome thing. In the obvious cases where it is not good, this is made quite clear by the evidence of trauma and harm that someone experiences as a result of it.

In cases of verbal abuse, however, the evidence of trauma can be increasingly difficult to establish. What do you think of a relationship between husband and wife where the wife is subtly encouraged to thingk that she is incapable of taking care of herself. It is subtle but there is a twist of wrongness in this thing they call love between them. However, such things are generally considered nobody's business but theirs. Sometimes relationship are more complicated with both good things and bad, and only the participants can judge for themselves if the relationship is more good than bad. In fact, is this not true of all love relationships?

So, when a homosexual relationship is called love, how shall we judge if this is a good thing? Is there evidence of trauma? Are the participants happy? Does relationship diminish one of the participants or does it empower both of them and make them more effective and healthy? Who better than the participants themselves can make such an evaluation? This is assuredly the basis for the secular judgement which does not classify a homosexual relationship with those other things which people might call love but which are illegal because there is evidence of trauma and harm.

So how might someone who believes that homosexuality is a sin classify the such relationships differently. It must be according to some type of spiritual harm which is not objectively observable or measurable. Which means that it is very much subject to religious belief, and so if our society is to pay any reasonable respect to the principles of religious freedom, this cannot be the basis of secular law and judgement.

Christians have disagreements about a great many things including how many different passages of the Bible are to be interpreted or taken seriously. It seems to me that we must accept the fact that a portion of Christendom embraces the secular judgement of homosexuality as part their understanding of Christianity. As long as we have the freedom to our own interpretations, why should we complain?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

To answer the original thread-poster's question: "What are the gay?"

I would like to say that the gays are:

Kind
Loving
Generous
Funny
They usually have two incomes and no kids, so they have a lot of expendable income. That income goes toward supporting their community by fixing up their real estate and improving their neighborhood.
They usually are politically active, and fight for things such as helping the 12 million (yes, 12 million) children in Africa who are orphaned as a result of the AIDS epidemic.
They have good fashion style and help all their straight brethren dress better.
They love and support their friends
They are family to one-another, when their own families disown them for not being who their family wanted them to be.
They understand what it's like to be persecuted for being different (much like Jesus), and they smile and keep on walking.
They are proud and comfortable in their own skin
They are nelly queens and they are butch firemen who would pass you on the street and you wouldn't know that they were gay
They are doctors and lawyers and waiters and store owners.
They are your child's teacher
They are your parent's nurse
They are Christians and buddhists and Islamists and agnostics
They are in EVERY town in the world
They are in every family in the world
They are everywhere
And they have been everywhere since the beginning of time
And they will continue to be everywhere until the end of time

 

[GenemZ]

To answer the original thread-poster's question: "What are the gay?"

I would like to say that the gays are:

Kind
Loving
Generous
Funny

Being all those things are not necessarily seen as righteous to God.

Matthew 7:11 niv​

If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!​

Fathers who reject Christ. Who the LORD calls evil. Are kind, loving, generous, and funny.

So? You keep evaluating yourself according to human standards. Many a straight unbeliever are all those things you mentioned.

How does that make them not going to Hell when they die? By being nice?

They usually have two incomes and no kids, so they have a lot of expendable income. That income goes toward supporting their community by fixing up their real estate and improving their neighborhood.

Better not to get married, then? There goes the money. That is, if there is to be a husband, some sort of wife, and adopted kids.

If God made you gay, he made you not to procreate. Not to be a parent. You defy God's will (if he made you gay) by wanting to have children.

They usually are politically active, and fight for things such as helping the 12 million (yes, 12 million) children in Africa who are orphaned as a result of the AIDS epidemic.

Yeah..... AIDS. Deadly. But? Never dare say was from God in judgement upon sin. Now, would we? God would never do that. Would he?

1 John 5:16-17 niv​

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."​

Nahhhhhh.... God has a soft spot in his heart for homosexuals. After all, His Son is Gay. Right?

They have good fashion style and help all their straight brethren dress better.
They love and support their friends

So?

Again! You are evaluating according the values of the world.

Luke 6: 32 niv​

"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them."​

Point well taken?

They are family to one-another, when their own families disown them for not being who their family wanted them to be.

That is an inversion of what happens when a person becomes born again. Families will disown them if the family is religious many a time. Or, just do not like Christianity for other reasons.

I was disowned when I believed. Gays are an inversion of that experience. They are an example of such treatment for the kingdom of darkness.

Christianity, from the kingdom of light. Just find one of the few Gays that are transformed after salvation because they desire grace and truth? ... And they will be disowned by the Gay community. They will be called liars.

They understand what it's like to be persecuted for being different (much like Jesus), and they smile and keep on walking.

Fine... and they smile into the pit of Hell if they reject Jesus Christ as Savior... from their sins!

They are proud and comfortable in their own skin
They are nelly queens and they are butch firemen who would pass you on the street and you wouldn't know that they were gay

Having come out of an musician artist background, I have seen things that many in the world have not. You are not surprising me with that one. I had my eyes opened years ago.

They are doctors and lawyers and waiters and store owners.

So were child molestors. Does being those things make anything correct?

They are your child's teacher
They are your parent's nurse
They are Christians and buddhists and Islamists and agnostics
They are in EVERY town in the world
They are in every family in the world
They are everywhere
And they have been everywhere since the beginning of time
And they will continue to be everywhere until the end of time

Yeah..... till the end of time.

You do not see God killing off all the Muslim militants at this time, do you? Or killing off all the Communists who murdered millions? At the end of time it will all be all sorted out.

God allows for us to make our CHOICES now.

You have made yours. The only way you can be filled with the Spirit and live as you do, is to say that The Son of God is Gay. Is Jesus Gay?

But? If you believed and now grieve and squelch the Spirit living in you? Then you are gay. Not, Christ. He will have no part of your life as you now are. That is, if you are truly saved. There is no way to tell, because the life you live is antichrist in effect.

This is what the Bible tells us about those who glory in their sin, yet claim to believe.

2 Timothy 3:4b-5 (New International Version)​

"lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."​

Titus 1:16a​

"They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. "​

So? We have no way of knowing you are saved. Not that you are not. But, no believer has any indication that you are the genuine article. The only way to know is, if you chose to follow after Christ and came out of your life of sin by the power of the Spirit.

For there will be false Christians who work their way in to the Christian community. Just like Gay who should not procreate, work their way into the community of marriage... where they were never intended to be.

Jude 1:4 niv​

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."​

So?

The only one who can know you are saved at this time? Is the LORD himself. Maybe you are. I am not saying you are not. But....

As it now stands, not even you can be certain you will go to Heaven after you die. For the LORD would not be encouraging you in your homosexuality if you are one of His own. You claim he is. It would be just the opposite!

Hebrews 12:5-7 (Amplified Bible)​

"And have you [completely] forgotten the divine word of appeal and encouragement in which you are reasoned with and addressed as sons? My son, do not think lightly or scorn to submit to the correction and discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage and give up and faint when you are reproved or corrected by Him; ​

For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. ​

You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline?"​

That means, it can not be the Lord giving approval to your homosexuality. Its another spirit pretending to be the LORD, if you are hearing approval. Like I said.... the first gays were not human.

You have a very unique battle on your hands.

Demons identify with the gay life in a very profound way. For, they are denying their own shame before God through you. Like a parent who is a loser wants to experience success through their children.

If they can get gays to show themselves to be an equal to what God has designed in straight society? The fallen angels have in their pride, vindicated themselves in not being losers for their rejecting God and his provisions for happiness.

If Satan can get the straight world to cheapen sex and lose out on true love through socially accepted immorality?

He has created a level field for making his point. That is why heterosexual immorality is to be highly promoted in the world. It cheapens the expression of sexual love, and takes away the reason for jealousy that fallen angels experience when a man and a woman find the true bond of being one in their passion... That is why marriage came under strong attack in the 60's.

The Hebrew words used for sexual relations between a man and woman (when blessed) border on a powerful violent attraction that is powerful in bringing about a oneness that the world of sinners can not know. And, a blessed happiness gays can not know.

As long as sex is seen as an exchange of affectionate pleasure? As we see in the godless media today? Then the gays can move up and claim equality with straights. And, so far? Its been working.

But if straights rediscover virtue and the love between man and woman as God designed it? Jealousy rages from the gay angels who can not duplicate with their attempts in sex, with what God has wrought in man and a woman when its blessed.

As long as the heterosexual community is content with its promiscuity? Then the gays keep moving closer to being side by side in their ability to demand equality.

No wonder their was a media panic when AIDS made the news. They kept telling us not to worry! Not to abstain! To use a condom and continue with our promiscuity!

For if the straight community was chased back into the world of having to live a moral sexuality out of the fear of AIDS? Homosexuality would lose its gaining status as being just an alternative choice.

After all? Heterosexual promiscuity leads to frustration and boredom. Then drugs must be used in order to try and feel any life. The question of Gays? Oh, they are just another expression of the same things (as far as these ones are concerned).

The biggest threat to the advances of the gay movement, would be a true spiritual revival in Christ. That is why God has been kicked out of the schools and now trying out of government. For future generations must become secularized if Satan is to gain control of the world as he desires.

I true spiritual revival in Christ is the kind of revival that knocked out the wide spread sexually charged culture of Rome, and shut down its pagan temples (where sex was used as an expression of religion).

Other than that?

Have a nice Day, GeneZ

 

[ReformedChapin]

To answer the original thread-poster's question: "What are the gay?"

I would like to say that the gays are:

Kind
Loving
Generous
Funny
They usually have two incomes and no kids, so they have a lot of expendable income. That income goes toward supporting their community by fixing up their real estate and improving their neighborhood.
They usually are politically active, and fight for things such as helping the 12 million (yes, 12 million) children in Africa who are orphaned as a result of the AIDS epidemic.
They have good fashion style and help all their straight brethren dress better.
They love and support their friends
They are family to one-another, when their own families disown them for not being who their family wanted them to be.
They understand what it's like to be persecuted for being different (much like Jesus), and they smile and keep on walking.
They are proud and comfortable in their own skin
They are nelly queens and they are butch firemen who would pass you on the street and you wouldn't know that they were gay
They are doctors and lawyers and waiters and store owners.
They are your child's teacher
They are your parent's nurse
They are Christians and buddhists and Islamists and agnostics
They are in EVERY town in the world
They are in every family in the world
They are everywhere
And they have been everywhere since the beginning of time
And they will continue to be everywhere until the end of time

The OP said why are they gay...what are you talking about?

 

[tulc]

Jealousy rages from the gay angels who can not duplicate with their attempts in sex, with what God has wrought in man and a woman when its blessed. (emph. added)

That's the second time you said something along these lines, and I'm curious why you think there are gay angels?
tulc(finds the idea...odd)

 

[Shubunkin]

Did I misunderstand? When cygne said,



I thought she was characterizing this discussion as one between Christians and "others" (including you). So I thought I should remind her that everyone here is Christian.

Yeah, you misunderstood, big time. I was talking about hatred of Christians especially on this FORUM - all of Christian Forums. I didn't state it clearly and I apologized for that, in case you didn't see it. I have a gay cousin, and I love her to pieces. I will not judge people such as her because she was terrified of her father who was a drunk and violent, and so cannot relate to men. I pray to God that she receives understanding and help throughout her life spiritually.

There is a lot of hatred for some on this thread as what is being discussed here. But we must say what God says on a topic (quoting scripture) even if we get clobbered. I will give a hug to any gay person near me, and pray for them, but don't force me to say what God never said. That would be lying, anyway.

 

[relspace]

Yeah, you misunderstood, big time. I was talking about hatred of Christians especially on this FORUM - all of Christian Forums. I didn't state it clearly and I apologized for that, in case you didn't see it. I have a gay cousin, and I love her to pieces. I will not judge people such as her because she was terrified of her father who was a drunk and violent, and so cannot relate to men. I pray to God that she receives understanding and help throughout her life spiritually.

There is a lot of hatred for some on this thread as what is being discussed here. But we must say what God says on a topic (quoting scripture) even if we get clobbered. I will give a hug to any gay person near me, and pray for them, but don't force me to say what God never said. That would be lying, anyway.

Let me make it perfectly clear and you can correct me if I still misunderstand. I understand in this post that like I understood in your previous post that you were defending the accurate report of the Bible which says that homosexuality is a sin. Since you perceived that people who were simply explaining this fact of the Bible were being persecuted in this thread, you spoke in their defense.

Since you understood this to be the proper behavior of a Christian then you complained that Christians were being persecuted. But you did not in any way intend to imply that those (in this thread at least) who were doing the persecuting were not Christian. And in fact you have now made it clear that you have only love rather than animosity towards those who is homosexual but that you also cannot change the word of God just because of this. And now because we have had this little discussion then perhaps all of this is now clear to everyone.

I have been consistently moderate in this thread defending religious freedom above all things including everyones right to believe that homosexuality is a sin or to believe that it is not a sin. So I have be upholding the need for a compromise in secular law. Therefore I saw it as my duty to defend this thread as a discussion among Christians about this very divisive issue hoping to see a discussion of what kind of compromise might be considered by both sides. Certainly I would not expect a compromise in the matter of religion, there is after all hardly any need, for our disagreements as Christians are already legion and each is free to pursue his/her own understanding. But in the use of the force of law there must be compromise in order to live in peace.

 

[fevoldj2]

Do you know what a foxhole is? In wartime?

I think you do not have a clue as to what it is. If you do? You just acted like you did not.

I am long over myself.

If I were not?

I would be defending everyone elses sin, like some here are doing. Trying to excuse myself, by excusing others.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

If I were in a fox hole at wartime, I think there would be more important things to think about than rubbing up against you intentionally. If you've got a problem with a guy touching you in a nonsexual way, then well...

 

[fevoldj2]

So there is no difference between yours on a secularist. They would claim their basis for their beliefs is their life experiences...ok

I hold a secularist view that by pushing the occilating button on my fan, down, It will begin to occilate. Please show me scriptural evidence of that, otherwise it's an evil secularist view.

 

[GenemZ]

That's the second time you said something along these lines, and I'm curious why you think there are gay angels?
tulc(finds the idea...odd)

Please go back and re-read the post about Genesis 6?

Angels were designed by God with the capacity to procreate. And, they have no female counterpart given to them. I explained in that post, why.

If that be the case? Then we are left to figure out from what we can know about the angels (the rebellion of Satan and his angels) to see why their females were never to be given to them. I explained in that post, why.

Jesus said that the angels in Heaven (his angels) are not given in marriage. That does not mean they were created sexless. He did not say they were sexless. No more sexless than the list of prophets who were celebate, not to mention John the Baptist, and Paul, being without women, by being celebate by grace.

God's grace takes care of those he calls to be celebate if they are willing. Angels of God receive grace, which is the power given to do God's will, in which one does not possess the capacity to do so in his own strength.

Not so for fallen angels! Demons are outside of God's grace provision. They are driven uncontrollably by their lustful desires.

Since angels were not created sexless? And, as shown? Angels in Genesis 6 were capable of procreating with human woman!

Genesis 6:1-4

" WHEN MEN began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,

The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair, and they took to themselves women of all they desired and chose.

Then the Lord said, My Spirit shall not forever dwell and strive with man, for he also is flesh; but his days shall yet be 120 years. There were giants on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God lived with the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

​

That passage causes great consternation for some who have no capacity to accept what it is saying. They say, "No! Angels can not have sex!"

Yet, this is where the ancient myths of the likes of Greek gods had its beginning. Mighty men of renown? Hercules and the likes were at one time the product of mythology of once real beings. (I know. It sounds odd. Yet we are going to reign with Christ one day. That's odd, too, to human ears).

Myths were created about them and embellished as passed along orally.

God destroyed all this sort of man in the Flood. That is why he had to destroy mankind. For, a mutant hybrid man was walking the earth, and if not destroyed, these angels would have prevented the LORD's coming as a pure humanity. God had to wipe them out. Only Noah and his family stayed pure humanity.

Certain angels did have sex during the time of Noah. As we see in Scriptures.

2 Peter 2:4-5 (New International Version)
"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others."
​

Angels are very similar to man when they are materialized. They can even eat human food.

Genesis 18:6-8 niv
" So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. "Quick," he said, "get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread." Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree."

​

Of those eating? Two were the angels that went to Sodom to deliver Lot and his family. These were the two angels that the men of Sodom wanted to come out so they could rape them. These men of Sodom had to be destroyed because they had become totally influenced by demons. Demons who had become at that time militantly gay in nature.

Look at this...... God gave the following people over to worshipping the created things, after having fully rejected God's drawing them.

What is part of the creation to be worshipped? Satan and his angels. The gods of this world! Look what happened after they were handed over to this worship!

(Romans 1)

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.


21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

​

The penalty for their perversion was perverted sex. Their perversion, was substituting the Truth about God for a lie! That was their perversion! Not the sex! The sex was the penalty for their perversion!

God handed them over to worship the created things of this world. This includes fallen angels above all what is created! Satan is the god of this world!

Men become transformed by what they worship...

When teenage boys began worshipping the Beatles? Suddeny they who used to be clean cut were growing long hair and dressing more like them. And, that was only a mild form of worship. Men worshipping the creation over God? Is something much more intense.

When God handed these rejectors of God over to worship the gods of this world? To the things of the world which were created?

These people transformed by what they now worshipped freely, and then turned boldly homosexual. For they became like the very ones they worshipped!

Up until then? God was protecting them from this influence! Until, after they chose to reject the knowledge of God they were shown by God.

Its all coincidence?

Why should God hand men over to worship created things? And, suddenly they became gay?

Boldly gay? These types (militant homosexuals) are the evangelists of the life of the secularized cosmic system. They can be very creative. Trend setting. Leading the way in the things seeming important to a worldly point of view.

The first gay creatures were fallen angels. Not men.

The fallen angels were created without a female counterpart. Just like Adam was with a woman when he was first created. Out of intense frustration from what the fallen angels witnessed to with men and women having wonderful sex, and aroused them. These fallen angels tried to create and produce for themselves what they witnessed to by observing humans having glorious wonderful sex. That is why for a time we saw the evolution of gay men... one acting out the female...one the male. We even witness to that with the Butch lesbians. Its demon influence. Its the lifestyle of fallen angels.

To watch men and women in the beginning of creation to make love it drove the fallen angels nuts with desire! Like people today who are addicted to porno films. (Which is cheap sex when compared to real love making between a man and woman truly in love).

Apparently, some of these fallen angels adored women so much that they decided to copy the female form, and as a result, to create the first female substitute. Like I said, the first drag queens were fallen angels, not men!

Its illogical for human men with women all around them, to want to act like women. But it makes sense when the setting is placed into a group which is sex driven and crazed for women, and are exclusively consisting of only males. No hope of finding a female.

Homosexuality all began with the sinful fallen angels. Therefore, the origin of homosexuality in mankind is a spiritual issue. Not a physical issue, as it plays out on the stage of life throughout history of man.

That's how I have come to see it. I know it will seem odd to some. Crazy to others. Stupid... And, helpful to those seeking to better understand God's Word.

By His Grace, GeneZ

 

[ReformedChapin]

I hold a secularist view that by pushing the occilating button on my fan, down, It will begin to occilate. Please show me scriptural evidence of that, otherwise it's an evil secularist view.

I'm just going to stop with you, you want to keep sinning and make excuses. Keep at it, I'm done. But I leave you with this verse...

Those who live accordance to their sinful nature have their minds set on what the nature desires; but those who live in accordance ith the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. (Romans 8:5)

 

[stratt]

If you can be born gay, then is a child molester born the same way?

Sin, even if in your nature, is still sin, and must be rejected and abandoned. If we dont acknoledge our sin, how can we be saved?

The first step in becoming a christian is admitting that you sin... to claim your sins are justified is to reject the first step in salvation.

 

[GenemZ]

If I were in a fox hole at wartime, I think there would be more important things to think about than rubbing up against you intentionally. If you've got a problem with a guy touching you in a nonsexual way, then well...

If you knew someone was homosexual, and doing that? It would hurt morale of the troops that knew of him.

Troop morale is a major issue in the army. In the army you take orders. You have no rights. If you start having rights? The army stops being a dictator...... One on the side of maintaining your freedom of your nation.

If I were lonely and missing companionship? The last thing I would want is the sympathy of a homosexual next to me in the trenches. Its not like the world in the army. You hang your rights on a hook when you enter, and you take it back off when you are honorably discharged.

You want no unneeded distractions to deal with. If any straight soldier breaks up morale, or causes disorder? He is isolated from his unit if punishment does not snap him out of it.

You can not punish gayness out of a gay soldier. But, if he can maintain an appearance of not being a distraction? If no one can tell he is gay? Then why say anything? You are there to protect the country you are suppose to love. Not to be there to make points for some cause.

If you are gay and are willing to die for the freedom of your nation? Then be like everyone else and do just that. But? What happens when all the guys start talking about their girlfriends? Better be willing to lie if that is the case. For, you chose to be there. You would have been rejected if you were honest to begin with and said you were gay before you went in.

The army is not a place for something that many hold a strong bias against. Its too much of a distraction. Then those in command with integrity have to keep an eye out that some bigot does not try to shoot the gay soldier in battle. Its just not worth it.

That is... if the majority in the army are not morally degenerate. If they are? Then anything goes. When that happens? Then we can have open acceptance of gays in the military. Then they will not be a distraction. And, the morale will have been shot to pieces any way.

Those who are morally apathetic do not get it. They should not be allowed to tell the army how to do things. The army has one job to do. And to do it well. You do not have to be gay to be discharged. Anyone who hurts the cohesiveness of the command is to be weeded out. So, don't think the army is just against gays. Its against anyone who disrupts the cohesiveness of command and order.

2 Timothy 2:3 niv​

"Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus."​

The army is not there to make life easy for you.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[fevoldj2]

If you can be born gay, then is a child molester born the same way?

Sin, even if in your nature, is still sin, and must be rejected and abandoned. If we dont acknoledge our sin, how can we be saved?

The first step in becoming a christian is admitting that you sin... to claim your sins are justified is to reject the first step in salvation.

Ah sure, someone could grow up being attracted to children. If they act on it, then they are definitely sinning. If they play out scenes in their heads they are lusting. If they are doing none of the above at any moment in time, have they commited that sin? God can help us with lust.

Lol, doesn't the army have a "Don't tell, don't ask" rule? Just because someone doesn't like to talk about a girls behind doesn't mean they're gay either. I noticed you said that most of those in the army are not morally degenerate. Do you spend much time around soldiers these days? Sure, when they're at work they're alright, but you should see them outside of work. They don't always set the best example. Still, if you don't tell them you're gay, what's the problem? Is there any reason to tell them?

 

[relspace]

The army is not a place for something that many hold a strong bias against. Its too much of a distraction. Then those in command with integrity have to keep an eye out that some bigot does not try to shoot the gay soldier in battle. Its just not worth it.

That is... if the majority in the army are not morally degenerate. If they are? Then anything goes. When that happens? Then we can have open acceptance of gays in the military. Then they will not be a distraction. And, the morale will have been shot to pieces any way.

Those who are morally apathetic do not get it. They should not be allowed to tell the army how to do things. The army has one job to do. And to do it well. You do not have to be gay to be discharged. Anyone who hurts the cohesiveness of the command is to be weeded out. So, don't think the army is just against gays. Its against anyone who disrupts the cohesiveness of command and order.

I don't know genez, maybe you can explain the difference to me but are not the same arguments made againt women in the military? Were not the same arguments made against races and religious groups in regards to participation in the military?

If the military has such high moral standards and discipline then it can deal with this "strong bias against" like any other moral issue. How is it different from having a someone with a different religious background in the military. Such a person has strange practices and different beliefs about right and wrong.

Of course actual misconduct between members of the military may be a different matter. What are the rules about relationships between men and women who are working together in the military?

 

[GenemZ]

I don't know genez, maybe you can explain the difference to me but are not the same arguments made againt women in the military? Were not the same arguments made against races and religious groups in regards to participation in the military?

No. They were not the same reason. Woman were not seen fit for to horrors of combat. Blacks were seen not to be brave enough by the bigots. None of it had to do with being in a troop with someone with a sexual orientation issue. It is not for the same reasons.

If the military has such high moral standards and discipline then it can deal with this "strong bias against" like any other moral issue.

I said, "morale." Not, moral.

How is it different from having a someone with a different religious background in the military. Such a person has strange practices and different beliefs about right and wrong.

They have a section for them, and they are not allowed in the army in some cases. The Amish do not serve in the military.

Of course actual misconduct between members of the military may be a different matter. What are the rules about relationships between men and women who are working together in the military?

For starters... In the field? Men and woman do not squate next to each other in open latrines. They do not shower together. They do not practice hand to hand combat with one another. And, they most definitely do not sleep in the same room, or tent, with each other.

I seriously wonder how many who have actually served in the military are pro gay for the military. I have yet to meet a professional soldier who thinks its a good idea. It seems to be a high minded civilian concept. Not, shared by a vast majority who have served. Clinton who was a draft dodger tried to introduce it... He had no real concept of what he was attempting to achieve. Yet, he acted like he knew better.

Keep looking, though. There is always the odd man out who is the exception. Just like there were Americans during the cold war who thought Russia was right. There will always be someone who is contrary to what most see as being common sense.

That's not the point here. The military is a live or die concept. No room for inconveniences that are not needed which would distract.

Navy Seals? Know about how they train in two's? Have one be gay? There goes the special forces effectiveness in that area.

I do not see all gays as effeminate whimps. Some can be quite sadistic and violent in nature. I am aware that they can fight and kill, and even enjoy it. That is not what I am getting at. Its the need for a uniform cohesiveness amongst the troops. Differences of personality are always welcomed as a team works together. Sexual differences drops a wrench in the gears. That can not be allowed in how the American Army functions. It would hurt morale if acceptance of gays were to be imposed...

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[heatherq17]

number 5

 

[Lindstrom]

But indeed o man who are you to reply against God, will the thing formed say to him who formed it: "Why have you made me like this"

I believe there are several reasons a person end up gay,
when it is defemation and slander by buddies the person needs only prayer. The other ways are a secrete mystery to mankind.

Romans 1:
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

So in this case it is the result of idolworship.

I cannot draw the link and deduce the connection between idolworship and homosexuality.

But there is a link

 

[DivineRAiN]

stratt: If you can be born gay, then is a child molester born the same way?

why is when the subject of homosexuality is being discussed, somebody has to bring up child molesters?.. are the 2 groups THAT similar?
Most child molesters (if not all) were molested themselves..(I honestly don't get the connection, but I keep hearing there is 1) and they're intention is to have sexual satisfaction, not a loving relationship. The way I see it, that group is closer to rapists altho for the most part they aren't as violent, but some molesters do rape children. This is not along the same lines as the subject of homosexuality so I don't see how some ppl think there's some kind of connection or similarity

 

[tulc]

why is when the subject of homosexuality is being discussed, somebody has to bring up child molesters?.. are the 2 groups THAT similar?
Most child molesters (if not all) were molested themselves..(I honestly don't get the connection, but I keep hearing there is 1) and they're intention is to have sexual satisfaction, not a loving relationship. The way I see it, that group is closer to rapists altho for the most part they aren't as violent, but some molesters do rape children. This is not along the same lines as the subject of homosexuality so I don't see how some ppl think there's some kind of connection or similarity

..because some people don't SEE a difference? Some people don't see how offensive a comparison it is. Others are so interested in "winning an argument" they don't CARE how wrong the comparison is. Plus it makes you look so "Christian" comparing people you don't like to people nobody likes.
tulc( )