Why are they gay?

belladonic-haze · Aug 11, 2006

Ringo84 said:
But if God didn't "make" homosexuals, where'd they come from? Pluto?

LOL...I had another planet in mind.... .....and bisexuals come from saturn.....

You're assuming that God didn't make homosexuals because you assume that they're sinful. How would you feel if someone implied that being straight is evil?

Name the time when you woke up and "chose" to be straight.

I never said that. That's what YOU read into my comments.

Those verses you provided don't prove much either. What are "shameful lusts" and "indecent acts"? That can be interpreted in many ways. And "sexual immorality" is similarly objective.

Why do you feel so strongly about this, NewGuy? Obviously you aren't gay, so it really isn't your problem when you come right down to it. Homosexuals aren't personally hurting you in any way, and neither is my interpretation of the Bible.
Ringo

Good post!

belladonic-haze · Aug 11, 2006

What I find odd, and I will say this over and over again is that love is considered a sin and the one who acts out that love is considered a sinner that must be healed.

We are all the same, we all need someone we can trust and cherisch and have an emotional, spiritual and physical bond with. And if someone shares his or her life with someone from the same gender that way, why is it so wrong?

I know for a fact that there are true sexual sins. Acts that hurt the victims badly and that is none consensual sex with other words: rape, abuse, violence. Of course these are sexual acts, but are to humiliated and break the victim down....and believe me that works.

I don't know about what God thinks about this but if I go to heaven I rather share it with a promiscuous gay guy who didn't repent than a Christian rapist who did repent. First of all the gay guy is much more fun and didn't humiliated someone in the worst possible way and the so-called Christian rapist made his victim suffer life sentence.........and probably beyond......

Why are people gay? Because if you believe that God created all living beings He/She made them gay....God did it with over 400 other species (homosexual individuals are found in so many species), why not with the human species? That - to me - is impossible to believe that God didn't made them. I just didn't wake up one day and decide, let's fall in love with a woman......

Mattacious · Aug 11, 2006

I believe some are born this way. Others choose to be this way due to life experiences.

In a way we are all gay. It's just the degree in which we are gay. Some people lean more to the full on gay side and others are in the middle and then theres those who are more straight than gay.

belladonic-haze · Aug 11, 2006

Backslidden said:
I believe some are born this way. Others choose to be this way due to life experiences.

In a way we are all gay. It's just the degree in which we are gay. Some people lean more to the full on gay side and others are in the middle and then theres those who are more straight than gay.

We are all bisexual and some are more gay and some are more straight.....Bisexual is in the middle and one side goes to gay and one side goes to straight.....

relspace · Aug 24, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
We are all bisexual and some are more gay and some are more straight.....Bisexual is in the middle and one side goes to gay and one side goes to straight.....

This goes along with the observation that children are at least asexual if not more oriented towards their own sex and it is only in adolesence that this changes. It seems clear to me, that how we think plays an enormous role in the whole process of sexual attraction and stimulation. Also it is my observation that sexuality seems to be very strongly habitual and strongly influenced by the relationships with our parents. This is definitely true in cases we call sexual aberrations. Therefore I find very doubtful that homosexuality is determined from birth by a genetic predispostion.

If there is any genetic predisposition in some people, it makes the most sense that it would orient people more towards heterosexuality. I can therefore credit the idea that some of us are simply more free to make our own choices but I find the idea of a genetic predisposition to homosexuality from birth a bit unlikely from the point of view of evolution. There may, however, be merit in the idea that homosexuality is hold over from the obvious childhood preference for members of ones own sex.

Virvelvind · Aug 24, 2006

I believe a lot of people do it because it's a kind of fashion now.
However, I do believe that there are people who truly are gay. I don't think that it's meant to be like that, but if they can't help it, then they deserve to experience love, even if it's not the love intended for us.

Rin4Christ · Aug 24, 2006

A combination of 4 and 6. I didn't read the rest of the tread but I may go back and do that later.

"It is not a choice, God made them gay"

I would agree with the first part of that statement. I believe that most homosexual tendencies are not conscious decisions. Science will likley come up with some chemical (and maybe even genetic) reason for the behavior. I hate to say "God made them gay". To me it sounds like "God is tempting me."

James 1:13 "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, not does he tempt anyone."

Everyone is tempted, and nearly everyone is tempted sexually sometime durring their life. these temptations don't come from God, but from the world.

ReformedChapin · Aug 24, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
Why are people gay? Because if you believe that God created all living beings He/She made them gay....God did it with over 400 other species (homosexual individuals are found in so many species), why not with the human species? That - to me - is impossible to believe that God didn't made them. I just didn't wake up one day and decide, let's fall in love with a woman......

People are gay because of perversion of their sexuality. It's been happening for years in the "human species." Also you can't compare us to animals, since tons of them "fornicate" (it's not for them, but for us) as well and were not supposed too. God didn't make them gay because then he would be a HYPOCRITE and a liar.

And it's more than you wake up and fall in love with a woman, the human psyche is highly complex and depending on your expusure to different sexual interactions or your thoughts it can lead you to choose an unGodly life style.

tulc · Aug 24, 2006

God didn't make them gay because then he would be a HYPOCRITE and a liar.

Only if He is how you believe Him to be. Perhaps the error lies in your understanding rather then Him?
tulc(generally finds that to be the case)

ReformedChapin · Aug 24, 2006

tulc said:
Only if He is how you believe Him to be. Perhaps the error lies in your understanding rather then Him?
tulc(generally finds that to be the case)

Nope, based on his word. When He starts being a Hypocrite is when he stops being God.

belladonic-haze · Aug 25, 2006

NewGuy101 said:
Nope, based on his word. When He starts being a Hypocrite is when he stops being God.

Do you believe in God or a book?

Because that is what this is: only the Bible tells us homosexuality is wrong....but what does God say? How do you know that this is not something people added because all the 'gentiles' that surrounded the Jewish people in that time accepted homosexuality. They believed in false gods, so the jews considered homosexuality as something wrong.....

But does God 'hate' people for loving someone? That is something I cannot comprehend. Love is one of the most beautiful things we have on this planet, why condemn it?

ReformedChapin · Aug 26, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
Do you believe in God or a book?

Because that is what this is: only the Bible tells us homosexuality is wrong....but what does God say? How do you know that this is not something people added because all the 'gentiles' that surrounded the Jewish people in that time accepted homosexuality. They believed in false gods, so the jews considered homosexuality as something wrong.....

But does God 'hate' people for loving someone? That is something I cannot comprehend. Love is one of the most beautiful things we have on this planet, why condemn it?

You're expressing romanticism not the God of the bible. If the bible is wrong, why bother being a christain in the first place?

BTW because you love them that doesn't mean you let anyone do whatever they want.

wmc1982 · Aug 26, 2006

Sodom and Gomorrah

imind · Aug 26, 2006

If the bible is wrong, why bother being a christain in the first place?

you can't possibly be serious. bible worship has gotten out of hand.

Only if He is how you believe Him to be. Perhaps the error lies in your understanding rather then Him?

indeed.

they do not have a choice.

ReformedChapin · Aug 26, 2006

imind said:
1)you can't possibly be serious. bible worship has gotten out of hand.

That statement made no sense, again why not just be a theist if you don't believe in the bible?

Secondly "your understanding of him" is erronous considering most of people who support that God is only about love when God is MUCH MORE than that.

Polycarp1 · Aug 26, 2006

NewGuy101 said:
You're expressing romanticism not the God of the bible. If the bible is wrong, why bother being a christain in the first place?

BTW because you love them that doesn't mean you let anyone do whatever they want.

First off, I love the Bible as the inspired record of God's dealings with mankind, a book with the power to turn human hearts to Him.

That said, I cannot tell you how wrong you are, IMO, in this post. First off, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father, who with Him sent the Holy Spirit to comfort, strengthen, and guide us. And His command is to love God and one another, His Atonement was to save "the world" (John 3:16-17), and all the fulminations about a god of wrath won't change His message one bit. In fact, there's an interesting line in there usually quoted by conservatives about "those who preach another Gospel." That's where my allegiance is.

The Bible never came down from heaven and out of humility became flesh. It never died on the cross in agony to save us. It never rose from the grave to conquer death and give us new and eternal life. It does not sit on the right hand of the Father and it will not sit in judgment on us at the end of things.

The subtlest of idolatry is when the thing idolized claims to be in the place of God. Any part of the Bible might be wrong, and God still be God, and Lord of our lives and of His Creation.

It is the job of a parent towards a minor child, or of a duly chosen judge or law enforcement authority, to stop people from doing that which they wish but which might harm them. You are none of those things towards your brothers and sisters in Christ. It is your privilege and duty to teach as the Holy Spirit leads you, and it's with no patronization that I say I think you're doing fine. (That allusion about your age in an earlier compliment was not intended as any sort of superciliousness, and I do apologize for how you read it.) What I am saying here is that IMHO you need to learn that God's justice is tempered with mercy, that it is your duty to love your fellow men even when they are sinners and not to apparently judge them. Having been something of a judgmentalist until the Lord cured me of it (with a heart attack at 42, and things He brought home to me through it), I can very well understand where you are coming from in defending His word. But His grace and mercy are amazingly rich -- after all, He saved you and me, which should humble us both! I ask humbly that you do not take offense at these words, which may seem harsh, but pray about them, and let the Holy Spirit lead you to His will for you in this matter.

ReformedChapin · Aug 26, 2006

Polycarp1 said:
First off, I love the Bible as the inspired record of God's dealings with mankind, a book with the power to turn human hearts to Him.

That said, I cannot tell you how wrong you are, IMO, in this post. First off, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father, who with Him sent the Holy Spirit to comfort, strengthen, and guide us. And His command is to love God and one another, His Atonement was to save "the world" (John 3:16-17), and all the fulminations about a god of wrath won't change His message one bit. In fact, there's an interesting line in there usually quoted by conservatives about "those who preach another Gospel." That's where my allegiance is.

The Bible never came down from heaven and out of humility became flesh. It never died on the cross in agony to save us. It never rose from the grave to conquer death and give us new and eternal life. It does not sit on the right hand of the Father and it will not sit in judgment on us at the end of things.

The subtlest of idolatry is when the thing idolized claims to be in the place of God. Any part of the Bible might be wrong, and God still be God, and Lord of our lives and of His Creation.

It is the job of a parent towards a minor child, or of a duly chosen judge or law enforcement authority, to stop people from doing that which they wish but which might harm them. You are none of those things towards your brothers and sisters in Christ. It is your privilege and duty to teach as the Holy Spirit leads you, and it's with no patronization that I say I think you're doing fine. (That allusion about your age in an earlier compliment was not intended as any sort of superciliousness, and I do apologize for how you read it.) What I am saying here is that IMHO you need to learn that God's justice is tempered with mercy, that it is your duty to love your fellow men even when they are sinners and not to apparently judge them. Having been something of a judgmentalist until the Lord cured me of it (with a heart attack at 42, and things He brought home to me through it), I can very well understand where you are coming from in defending His word. But His grace and mercy are amazingly rich -- after all, He saved you and me, which should humble us both! I ask humbly that you do not take offense at these words, which may seem harsh, but pray about them, and let the Holy Spirit lead you to His will for you in this matter.

Thanks for NOT answering my question and brining another point up in order to some how attempt to support yourself. To be honest I'm not surprised, you have several times used more than immoral tactics before. A good example of this was when you were attacking another of the conservatives who post here about how immoral she was because she posted about a sin she commited here.

Two your logic is erronous in several angles. One) No one said not to love homosexuals, that's not the point. My poinst is that confuse love with letting everyone sin and doing whatever they want hence letting hurt themselves. Two) My question is Why believe in the bible if you think it has errors..the bible is the record of Jesus abd all of his accounts.Everyone you mentioned is out of the bible, including his love and his anger torts idols which you attempt to accuse me of. Why bother with it if it can be wrong? Three) My bible isn't idol, it's my source to know God better. This is where your "argument" fail, becuase you have developed an idol and manipulate God's word to fit your idol. I think it's very ironic you accuse me of the same thing when you're infact guilty and I'm not. You attempt to justify poples sin and attack others with irrelavant topics simply because they defend God's word.

I suggest you take your own advice and...

Polycarp1 said:
He saved you and me, which should humble us both! I ask humbly that you do not take offense at these words, which may seem harsh, but pray about them, and let the Holy Spirit lead you to His will for you in this matter.

But also take a hermanutics class so you understand God better and not make up an idol which is a god of romanticism.

Mling · Aug 26, 2006

Two) My question is Why believe in the bible if you think it has errors..the bible is the record of Jesus abd all of his accounts.Everyone you mentioned is out of the bible, including his love and his anger torts idols which you attempt to accuse me of. Why bother with it if it can be wrong?

It is not a matter of believing vs. not believing, as if the Bible dropped onto the Earth in one complete unit.

It spans millenia, was written in several different languages, in many different cultures. The writing styles run the gammot from "history book"-style recordings from highly educated scholars, to fireside-stories passed down by oral history for generations before eventually being recorded. To read the Bible honestly and intelligently, you have to understand what, exactly, you are reading, and how, exactly, it expresses the truth it contains. To take an allegory or parable and insist it is literally factual is as much a corruption of the scripture as insisting that real historical fact is really a metaphor.

ReformedChapin · Aug 26, 2006

Mling said:
It is not a matter of believing vs. not believing, as if the Bible dropped onto the Earth in one complete unit.

It spans millenia, was written in several different languages, in many different cultures. The writing styles run the gammot from "history book"-style recordings from highly educated scholars, to fireside-stories passed down by oral history for generations before eventually being recorded. To read the Bible honestly and intelligently, you have to understand what, exactly, you are reading, and how, exactly, it expresses the truth it contains. To take an allegory or parable and insist it is literally factual is as much a corruption of the scripture as insisting that real historical fact is really a metaphor.

Again that's irrelvant (because I already knew that), my question was asking why bother with the bible or the faith in the first place if you think it has errors.

And secondly, belief is essential, if you're going to read a book and you think it's a bunch of crap you're not going to bother with it.

GenemZ · Aug 27, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
I am just who I am and I am not going to deny who I am.....

Matthew 16:24-25 niv
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it."

Looks like you want to save your life in Adam. The flesh's desires who Jesus crucified on the cross. And, to deny Christ in this case, and not self.

Yes... its your right to deny Christ. For God does not remove your volition.

Well?

If your temporal sex urges mean more to you than what Eternity holds in store? Fine. Your choice.

Titus 1:16a niv
"They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him."

So be it......

2 Timothy 2:11-13 (New American Standard Bible)
"It is a trustworthy statement:

For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;

If we endure, we will also reign with Him;

If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

In Christ, GeneZ

Why are they gay?

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