Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

bhsmte said:

Who on this thread do you think is anti Christian and why?

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I have actions against Christianity by Cearbhall. I have seen unjustified and unprovoked responses by yourself against me because of my statement of a Christian position. Besides that nothing has marked my mind in this thread and I don't see value to go looking for it.

Many atheists are just naturally curious. They keep their fingers in many pies. No god shaped vacuum required.

Songsmith said:

I mean, not that I want them gone, but it just seems strange to me that so many atheists would choose to spend their time and eergy on a site that is antithetical to their worldview. The interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to be here to proselytize, which would make sense to me. I assume that they, or many of them anyway, feela sense of community here if they've been here for a while. So, if not to show the poor theist the freedom of atheism, what is the draw?

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There are some good things in the Bible, mostly from Jesus. Before and after him men who wanted control have used religion to get control. Threatening people with the wrath of God, usually delivered by men or nature.

The evil inside religions, needs to be solved first before they have any chance of saving us.

Why do Christians go to atheist sites? I took a username "Lobotomy" or some such title to make atheists more comfortable that only a case of lobotomy would ardently accept the Christian faith and doctrine. All things to all people.

Maybe people go to websites to study human nature. One man's spam is another man's treasure. Perhaps "superstition" needs to be studied at a source.

A good book for all people in social media to read is John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty" which allows for free speech in just about everything providing no one is harmed.

Notice I say "harmed" and not "hurt" as it may sometimes be okay to hurt people but not to harm them.

John Stuart Mill's "liberalism" has been seriously debated. His free "social experiments" come into more controversy than his free speech arguments. You really must read his short book "On Liberty" which incidentally allows for proselytism where others might outlaw it without discussion. Interestingly "On Liberty" was published in 1859 -- the same year as "The Origin of Species" which also could be considered a famous or infamous book.

Maybe another reason people go to "the enemies'" website is to adequately practise the principle of "charity" where this means putting the opposition's arguments in a good light before attempting a refutation. A "straw person" is putting the argument in a form which has been weakened in order to knock it down more easily. Perhaps an "iron fortress" would amount to putting an argument (even an enemies argument) in so strong a form that it seems unfalsifiable.

To a scientist, "unfalsifiable" is usually bad because scientific hypotheses must be testable. "Charity" where one gets one's opposition's arguments just right like Goldilock's porridge is a fine art. But perhaps optimizing someone's arguments takes the extremism away. Extremism and radicalism are sometimes good. So you would wish to examine argumentation which is diverse and not always too weak nor too strong nor too middle of the road.

Some people like to use the divide and conquer approach to arguing. They put the opposition into two extremes then claim the middle ground. Christian conservatives are too legalistic and Christian spiritualists are too puffed up with experience; real Christianity misses out on the Charybdis & Scylla of the extremes and steers a middle course.

Atheists are either cold calculating scientists or even economists; or, alternately they are warm lovey-dovey bleeding hearts with wishbones and no backbones. Christianity is chosen by people who must be hot or cold and not lukewarm -- but people with lived experience unlike that of the number cruncher or poetaster types of atheists who must surely make up the majority as every person who reads newspapers must know. Oh, did I say that "propaganda" was originally a Christian term for propagating the faith. Some people may come here to study propaganda.

Some people, like David Hume, believe that mass hallucination is more probable than a single uncontested miracle. Skeptics to the core. (If there is a core.) Still, they would be willing to say that if not a god but the God created the heavens and the earth and is love incarnate as well. If this were proven true, then it would be very worthwhile to have the knowledge. If it must be accepted on faith, and, if that faith must be tested in furnaces, then, it may become less attractive.

I think that a lot more people than who would like to admit it are "double-minded" in the sense described in the epistle of James. Lord, I have faith, help Thou me my double-mindedness. How do you live in the world and not think like the world? How does a good apple in a barrel full of bad apples survive without going rotten? It seems that more than miracles are necessary. If any atheist could only once see these more-than-miracles, perhaps he could rest easy. The Lord's rest really is supposed to be easy and His yoke light.

May it surely not be mentioned that the atheists and agnostics be getting into the Kingdom of heaven more surely than the "Christian saints." If tax collectors and prostitutes can do it, why not atheists and agnostics. Perhaps Christians would have good reason to watch such people and not just for purposes of social control.

Wryetui said:

Everyone who willingly got distanciated from Christ is deluded and fell on sin and on pride, the worst sin of them all. I don't say I'm superior for believing.

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Can the same be said for Christians. Delusion is obvious as what is now "Christianity comes from the writings of Paul. The Old Testament is full of the stories story tellers told. And compiled as a political move. Much like the New Testament.

As for sin, many Christians are guilty of that. Pride, you don't have to say you feel superior, we understand.

If there was a God, he wouldn't of given us the freedom of choice if he had wanted us to follow him like sheep. At the pain of death if we didn't. Which according to the Bible and many Christians he's fond of delivering, by force of nature or at the hands of Men.

He would't of needed the 10 Commandments, he would of mad those crimes something we have no desire for.

If Chris is God, or has any connection to him. He would of got off the cross, and be alive today. So billions of lives would of been said. He didn't "Die for our sins". He died and allowed us to carry on sinning.

You cannot on one hand claim he's all powerful, when he makes so many mistakes. Unless being all powerful he is responsible for all the deaths in his name.

No no no you see "God doesn't make mistakes"

Apparently he's not responsible for all this. Best dad ever.

Songsmith said:

I mean, not that I want them gone, but it just seems strange to me that so many atheists would choose to spend their time and eergy on a site that is antithetical to their worldview. The interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to be here to proselytize, which would make sense to me. I assume that they, or many of them anyway, feela sense of community here if they've been here for a while. So, if not to show the poor theist the freedom of atheism, what is the draw?

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From my experience, it is sometimes because they feel good about belittling Christians. They believe it reinforces their belief that Jesus is not the Son of God. Many are concerned that Jesus may be the son of God. There may be some atheists who genuinely want to know where Christians are coming from.

Claire Evans said:

From my experience, it is sometimes because they feel good about belittling Christians. They believe it reinforces their belief that Jesus is not the Son of God. Many are concerned that Jesus may be the son of God. There may be some atheists who genuinely want to know where Christians are coming from.

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Actually I'll give you some length of rope here.

I'm here for both. It's fun to read some of the crazy things people write about religion and be smug about things and I'm genuinely concerned in hearing people out.

GrimKingGrim said:

Actually let me give you some rope here, you're right. I seek answers I never got as a theist, now I'm atheist and I still seek the exact same answers.




You're right again, almost. I scan the evidence given, be it what little you do give.



We seek some clarification, but where's the trick?



Oh come on I'm warm and loving. Do you want a hug? Have a hug.



Sorta right?



Infected? Noice.



Uh... ahaha. No. There's an lukewarm analogy.



Atheists who become believers again generally feel IMMENSE guilt about it and go off the rails with the preaching.



I mean sure, everyone needs an enemy.



You're right you know. I do, now make me believe it.



More like polluted with common sense and dignity.



Just present a credible case and we'll consider it. We come here to discuss, it's why we're here. If we actually didn't care enough to get questions answered we literally wouldn't have come. Sadly we have to all deal with usually poorly designed arguments and rhetoric and senseless bickering that leads nowhere. It feels like wasted effort but seriously it's a forum.

And we're here also to give a reasonable, non-theistic view here on your topics. It gives you insights, you give us insights. We are mutually beneficial here.

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Atheism puffs up the self, because the Atheist exalts his own capacity to reason above any other source of truth. The root of atheism is not strict adherence to empirical evidence in the universe, but rather a personal unwillingness to give up that which God has said is sin. Atheists, be truly honest with yourselves and you will discover it is your love of sin that keeps your eyes blind to the truth. The creation itself speaks loudly and plainly of its Creator. Even your own body, Atheist, testifies of its creator, though your mind and mouth refuse.

I’m an occasional visitor to this site, and got an email about this thread. Hope that, after reading 9 or 10 pages, I’ve got the general drift and will not be an irritant.

The atheists seem to be pretty consistent in their demand for a Demonstrable God. I promise that He wants to and will demonstrate Himself to the honest seeker who has a sincere heart and real intent. The promise is sure, to those who ask - in the name of Jesus Christ. Like “abracadabra”, you know, magic words.

Uh, no.

“In the name of Jesus Christ” means, among other things, in the service of Jesus Christ. Are you seeking God in order to serve the Savior of the world – in order to join Him in his great work of love? Or are you just curious? Just talking? No points for just talking. No points for just knowing, or for just having faith to move mountains, no points for bestowing all one’s goods to feed the poor, no points for giving one’s body to be burned. (1 Cor 13:1-3). The Father gives points only for those who serve in (not give) charity, the pure love of Christ that leads one to consecrate one’s self to a purpose higher than self, as God does (Lev 11:44 – see the Hebrew qadash, used 3 times in this short verse). Is that why you are seeking to know Him?...to be qadash, as He is qadash?

You don’t need to answer these questions to me, but you can answer them to yourself by reviewing what you are doing with the blessings you already enjoy? How much do you regularly sacrifice for others in your life?

What if Jesus really is the Creator of the world (though not the creator of the eternal soul), and left His throne to come to earth, born in a barn, life threatened, a refugee, rejected by his own, making an infinite, unimaginable Atonement, giving His life, His flesh and blood, and then rising from the tomb in glory? What will you do then? Do you really intend to do all He asks of you? Are you asking, like Paul, “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?”

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And BTW, the problem many of you have with evil disappears like putrid smoke in a breeze when you reject the apostate notion of “ex nihilo” creation – that God created everything and everyone out of nothing.

paulm50 said:

He didn't "Die for our sins". He died and allowed us to carry on sinning.

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That is the same thing. You do remember don't you, that the world refused to bend it's knee. What other options do you imagine He had?

Archaeopteryx said:

I originally joined this forum in 2007 as a Christian. In those early days I mainly discussed my faith, conspiracy theories, and politics. Since then my perspective has shifted significantly; I am no longer a Christian, or even a theist. Yet I stay because I enjoy the conversation that goes on here. It's sometimes illuminating, often amusing, and never dull.

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Had you truly known Christ as your savior, you would still be such.

wogspeaker said:

Atheism puffs up the self,

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So I'm a blowfish?

because the Atheist exalts his own capacity to reason above any other source of truth.

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"Just present a credible case and we'll consider it."

The root of atheism is not strict adherence to empirical evidence in the universe

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Yea. It's not. You got that right.

but rather a personal unwillingness to give up that which God has said is sin.

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Atheists, be truly honest with yourselves and you will discover it is your love of sin that keeps your eyes blind to the truth.

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No it's more of this "truth's" incredibility that hinders me.

The creation itself speaks loudly and plainly of its Creator. Even your own body, Atheist, testifies of its creator, though your mind and mouth refuse.

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If my mind refuses something, there's a problem. I shouldn't be able to do that.

wogspeaker said:

Had you truly known Christ as your savior, you would still be such.

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Wog, will you stick around to see whether this can be proven? Two others are engaged in discussions with me regarding this. BHSTME and Cearbhall.

wogspeaker said:

Atheism puffs up the self, because the Atheist exalts his own capacity to reason above any other source of truth. The root of atheism is not strict adherence to empirical evidence in the universe, but rather a personal unwillingness to give up that which God has said is sin. Atheists, be truly honest with yourselves and you will discover it is your love of sin that keeps your eyes blind to the truth. The creation itself speaks loudly and plainly of its Creator. Even your own body, Atheist, testifies of its creator, though your mind and mouth refuse.

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Very thick with truth, and hard to knock down. Don't take any of that unsubstantiated opinion they will shoot at you for this, and be patient and kind all the way through. This is an incredibly resilient statement.

In order for something to be a delusion, it must be a "false belief" and people described as having delusions usually have whopping big delusions or are very disturbed or very much disturbing to others. Or, they do not look after themselves and someone must look after them for them.

A Christian accepts: "The fool has said in his heart 'there is no god'" as the Word of God and virtually uncontestable. Some subtle Christians may take apart the word "atheist" into "a" for "not" and "theist" for "belief that God has been revealed" so that literally an atheist does not believe there is no god but rather that if there were a god, he has not adequately revealed himself or herself to humanity. What does adequate revelation mean?

To a Christian, atheists are deluded to deny God (or foolish, even if we are not really to call people fools). To an Atheist, Christians are deluded to believe in a God without adequate evidence. Perhaps "religious delusion" is what is called an "essentially contested concept" where people must agree to disagree.

Knowledge balanced with presuppositions and evidence based upon faith. Is it faith seeking knowledge? How goes the journey? If my identity is hidden with Christ in God, that does not make for much to see by an objective observer.

But does Scripture really work: "Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee." Does this even work a little bit? And can we grow in the Word? How do we know / have faith in the God Who Is There (Yahweh-Shammah) when He does not objectively appear to be here?

Is "God" just a dummy variable which is not needed in order to live the same kind of moral and ethical lives as many atheists? God as an unnecessary complication which violates the Law of Parsimony? Redundant? Are we asking whether God be necessary or contingent? Is it enough to assert that God be necessary? Or, is the "god of necessity" a mere intruder above which the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob lives?

I only rarely post and then only to make a point. I will not allow myself to get drawn into lengthy debates because it is a questionable investment of my limited time. We need to take up our cross and be about our Father's business. For Christians who participate here I would seriously ask you if this is a credible use of your time, whether it is helpful and has any positive value.

oi_antz said:

Very thick with truth, and hard to knock down. Don't take any of that unsubstantiated opinion they will shoot at you for this, and be patient and kind all the way through. This is an incredibly resilient statement.

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Ahaha. No. Very flimsy.

only a sojourner said:

I only rarely post and then only to make a point. I will not allow myself to get drawn into lengthy debates because it is a questionable investment of my limited time. We need to take up our cross and be about our Father's business. For Christians who participate here I would seriously ask you if this is a credible use of your time, whether it is helpful and has any positive value.

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Oh come on it's an online forum, it's mostly a hang out.