Why are there no cows in the Devonian?

[Black Akuma]

Why don't we take the fossil record and the geological column in another thread?

There is no problem for me don't you worry. Do you know what scientists do when they find a fossil NOT in their supposed period? And living fossils found with dinasours is very interesting for us to discuss.

We will find out in the new thread..

Why take it to another thread? This is a topic about the fossil record and the geologic column.

 

[anyathesword]

You quote Matthew, so let me ask you a few questions:

-Do you know when Matthew was written?
-Do you know who authored Matthew?
-Who has the originals of Matthew?

You should know the book you rely so much on, so I would expect a quick reply without a need to look it up.

I rely on the whole book of the Bible, that's 66 books. No I do not know all facts about the Bible, I am in the process of Learning. The Bible has endless information, you can never get to the bottom of it, it is full of wonderful and fascinating facts.

So tell me?

Matthew of course wrote this book, one of Jesus' disciples. Around 50 to 80 AD.

Who has the originals?

And why is this relevant?

 

[CabVet]

Matthew of course wrote this book, one of Jesus' disciples. Around 50 to 80 AD.

Do you read what you write? How is it possible for Matthew to have written the book 50-80 years after Jesus? How old was he when Jesus was alive?

http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-whom

 

[FredHoyle]

Do you know what scientists do when they find a fossil NOT in their supposed period?

Yes. They cheer because they are well on their way to getting a Nobel Prize for overturning evolution.

 

[CabVet]

Generally though if you look at the fossil record you have the bottom dwellers at the lower parts of the record. Then you get the free swimming ones like the fish and other sea creatures. Then comes the mammals and birds. So a flood could produce the same thing. the bottom dwellers would be in place because generally they are not free swimming and are at the bottom of the sea. The fish would have been next as they were already in the waters and some well below the surface. Then the mammals as they were land creatures and then the birds that would have been affected last as they were in the air. Makes just as much sense as evolutions fossil record. Consider to that they have found creatures that they say should not be in certain layers and also small lighter shell creatures on top of the highest mountains and well in land. This shows that some could have been mixed up as well from the torrents of the flood which can explain the anomalies that the fossil record can show. Makes sense to me.

This is truly amazing, you just invented a fossil record to fit your narrative. The real one is not like what you describe.

 

[CabVet]

Yes. They cheer because they are well on their way to getting a Nobel Prize for overturning evolution.

Exactly, creationists keep repeating this nonsense that evolution is some sort of conspiracy, while in reality, if someone could disprove evolution and come up with something better, that person would get the Nobel prize.

 

[bhsmte]

I rely on the whole book of the Bible, that's 66 books. No I do not know all facts about the Bible, I am in the process of Learning. The Bible has endless information, you can never get to the bottom of it, it is full of wonderful and fascinating facts.

So tell me?

Matthew of course wrote this book, one of Jesus' disciples. Around 50 to 80 AD.

Who has the originals?

And why is this relevant?

This never ceases to amaze me!

A person can put there total faith in a book, but they have not chosen to objectively explore the book from a scholarly or historical perspective, they just believe everything it says, because that is what they were taught. Yet, on the other hand, these same people, will complete a myriad of psychological gymnastics, to discredit the work of science, even though science develops testable and empirical evidence to back it's claims. This is the king of double standards and hypocrisy.

Regarding Matthew, no Matthew did not write the gospel that has his name on it. In fact, NT scholars agree, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, were not written by any of the four names attached to them, but were actually penned by ANONYMOUS authors who wrote the gospels in Greek and Jesus' followers spoke Aramaic and were also mostly illiterate. They were also written 30-70 years after Jesus died, contained no verifiable eye witness accounts and have tons of errors and contradictions. The originals are lost and we only have copies of copies starting around 200AD.

Why is it relevant? Are you serious? You put all your faith in this book and ignore objective evidence from science when it disagrees with your book and you ask why is it relevant to examine the credibility of the book that causes you to ignore reality?

 

[anyathesword]

Do you read what you write? How is it possible for Matthew to have written the book 50-80 years after Jesus? How old was he when Jesus was alive?

When were the gospels written and by whom?|What are the dates and authors of the gospels? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Jesus was born on or around 0 AD. He was in his 30s when he died. Why would it be a problem to write the gospel 20 to 30 years later?

You can't write in your 50 or 60s?

What's wrong with that?

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Generally though if you look at the fossil record you have the bottom dwellers at the lower parts of the record. Then you get the free swimming ones like the fish and other sea creatures. Then comes the mammals and birds. So a flood could produce the same thing... Makes sense to me.

So did you actually read my post or consider its implications? I present to you a few of a huge possible number of examples and you simply insist that in general the pattern is as you describe. It isn't though. That's the entire point. The only way you can say that the fossil record "generally" shows the pattern you imagine is if you ignore that vast number of organisms that don't fit that pattern. It's like arguing that all Chinese people live in China, despite the millions that live elsewhere. Sure, in general they live in China but that doesn't make the argument any more correct. You are trying to do the same thing with the fossil record.

 

[bhsmte]

This is truly amazing, you just invented a fossil record to fit your narrative. The real one is not like what you describe.

If required to back the narrative, inventing is completely allowed.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Why don't we take the fossil record and the geological column in another thread?

There is no problem for me don't you worry. Do you know what scientists do when they find a fossil NOT in their supposed period? And living fossils found with dinasours is very interesting for us to discuss.

We will find out in the new thread..

I'm with Black Akuma here; there's no reason to make a new thread. This thread is concerned with the fossil record and why it doesn't match the Bible. So please go ahead and provide your counterarguments to the post I made. Note when I say counterarguments I of course mean pertinent arguments and not the changes in subject this most recent post indicates you are planning. Explain why the differential escape pattern you claim exists in the record has been demonstrated not to exist.

 

[anyathesword]

This never ceases to amaze me!

A person can put there total faith in a book, but they have not chosen to objectively explore the book from a scholarly or historical perspective, they just believe everything it says, because that is what they were taught. Yet, on the other hand, these same people, will complete a myriad of psychological gymnastics, to discredit the work of science, even though science develops testable and empirical evidence to back it's claims. This is the king of double standards and hypocrisy.

Regarding Matthew, no Matthew did not write the gospel that has his name on it. In fact, NT scholars agree, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, were not written by any of the four names attached to them, but were actually penned by ANONYMOUS authors who wrote the gospels in Greek and Jesus' followers spoke Aramaic and were also mostly illiterate. They were also written 30-70 years after Jesus died, contained no verifiable eye witness accounts and have tons of errors and contradictions. The originals are lost and we only have copies of copies starting around 200AD.

Why is it relevant? Are you serious? You put all your faith in this book and ignore objective evidence from science when it disagrees with your book and you ask why is it relevant to examine the credibility of the book that causes you to ignore reality?

What is your source you are using?

I disagree. Who was Luke? He was a physician, a doctor, and you say he was illiterate?

In 1994 Dr. Carsten Thiede compared a fragment (the Magdalen papyrus, 17P64) with 4 other manuscripts and concluded that either this is the original of Matthew's Gospel or an immediate copy written while Matthew and the other disciples and eyewitnesses were still alive.

This Book is more valuable than you would ever know. Yes I put my faith in Jesus and believe that these are His true words.

 

[anyathesword]

Yes. They cheer because they are well on their way to getting a Nobel Prize for overturning evolution.

Can you stop making random comments that don't pertain to anything?

Thanks

 

[Loudmouth]

It matters a lot. [you do not listen, so I won't explain here]

To you, it doesn't. You have already stated that no matter what the observation is, you will claim that it is consistent with Genesis. If this isn't the caes, then please tell us what would falsify creationism.

 

[bhsmte]

What is your source you are using?

I disagree. Who was Luke? He was a physician, a doctor, and you say he was illiterate?

In 1994 Dr. Carsten Thiede compared a fragment (the Magdalen papyrus, 17P64) with 4 other manuscripts and concluded that either this is the original of Matthew's Gospel or an immediate copy written while Matthew and the other disciples and eyewitnesses were still alive.

This Book is more valuable than you would ever know. Yes I put my faith in Jesus and believe that these are His true words.

Did you bother to read the attachment from Cabvet? There are tons of sources which state the vast majority of scholars and historians all agree the 4 gospels were written by ANONYMOUS authors.

You rely on this book so much, but don't take the time to do your own research on the historicity of it? Then you ignore objective empirical evidence that has been tested over and over again? Hey, if that type of double standard works for you, than knock yourself out.

By the way, the fragment you spoke about, is thought to be dated around 200BC, per the attached.

Date of P64 (Magdalen Papyrus of Matthew)

 

[Loudmouth]

I think it is pretty good and very scientific.

How can it be scientific when creationism is not falsifiable?

 

[bhsmte]

How can it be scientific when creationism is not falsifiable?

Because he says so.

 

[Loudmouth]

Why are you guys argueing about one word? All fish were created on day 5. That's one physical day. The next day God created animals and humans.

Then why can't we find a single mammal, reptile, amphibian, or bird in the Devonian?

There's a huge problem. If you want to understand creation, then you can't use the evolutionary time table and the periods, like the devonian WITH the creation story and the flood.

The relative order of the sediment layers in the geologic column was established BEFORE any time tables were established. You also need to explain how fossils can be sorted so that they correlate with the isotope ratios of the rocks above and below that layer.

If you get the point across that all things were created in one week and the flood came 1656 years after, you will see that things

1. Had time to grow and reproduce and spread out, thats fish, animals and humans.
2. They couldn't have died in the same order they were created.
3. The Flood itself was a huge event that caused a whole heck of damage and change in the plates, eruption, deposition, erosion, etc.
4. Other natural disasters caused more damage and change.

The Devonian period is the narrative of the evolution theory, it has no way of being applied to the creation except if you think of it ib days, not in millions of years

I get the point, and I know exactly what the fossil record should look like if life was created 6,000 years ago in a span of a week, and if there was a global flood 4,000 years ago. I understand all of it. The problem is that the evidence doesn't match up to those claims.

 

[FredHoyle]

Can you stop making random comments that don't pertain to anything?

Thanks

You asked a question and I answered it, what are you on?

 

[Loudmouth]

In spite of evolutionists’ assumptions to the contrary, the fossil order can be explained in a creationist framework,

This entire thread demonstrates that they can't.

The ‘fountains of the great deep’ (Gen. 7:11) would logically have buried small seafloor creatures first.

The fossil record is not sorted by size or environment.

Water plants would generally be buried before coastal and mountain plants. Land creatures would be buried last, especially the mammals and birds that could escape to higher ground.

Then why do we have dinosaurs on top of dolphins?