Why are guardian angles so useless?

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him. If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

Why would God give you something that is of no use?

cairaiii said:

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him. If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

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Where exactly is it stated in Scripture that everyone has a "guardian angel?"

Why would God give you something that is of no use?

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Again, where it is stated that God has given everyone a guardian angel? Besides, if the events in human history happen in accord with God's providence, as He works through the mess we created when we decided to rebel against Him, and that for the greater good which we may or may not realize while walking this earth, then who are we to be cursing God for willing something to occur that we are ultimately responsible for in the first place?

Some Churches belive in guardian angels. The Roman Catholic Church does (though it is not required), but does have a feast day for the Guardian Angels. I really won't bother to look up Bible verses, if you say that we don't have guardians angels, I'll take that as your answer.

Anyway, sorry for naming this Guardian Angles, I suppose only mathematicians get those.

cairaiii said:

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him.

How do we know that everyone has guardian angels?


If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

why would we need guardian angels when we have the Creator of angels and heaven and earth on our side?


Why would God give you something that is of no use?

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When did God give us Guardian angels? What God has given us is faith in him. Where is the faith in God, why has he been denied by people and then they wonder where he is when if they would have sought him they would have known he has always been there waiting for us?

Bad things happen in this world and they will continue to happen as long as the devil is allowed by people into their lives.

cairaiii said:

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him. If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

Why would God give you something that is of no use?

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The question assumes that you'd necessarily know every time an angel stepped in to help you; which is something you wouldn't necessarily know.

If you did have a guardian angel, how do you know your life wasn't saved more then once yesterday?

XianJedi said:

The question assumes that you'd necessarily know every time an angel stepped in to help you; which is something you wouldn't necessarily know.

If you did have a guardian angel, how do you know your life wasn't saved more then once yesterday?

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Good questions!!!

Also, "guardian angels" may come in more forms than you think they do.

Consider this:

One day, due to heavy rains, a river began to overflow it's banks and caused serious flooding of the area.

As the waters rose, a nearby farmer was unconcerned. He was a Christian and was certain God would take care of him.

The waters were only about a foot deep, and a neighbor came by in a pickup truck and offered to take the farmer to safety. "No, thanks. I trust God," said the farmer.

The waters swelled several feet deeper. Another neighbor came by in a boat and offered to take the farmer to safety. "No, thanks. God will save me," said the farmer confidently.

The waters continued to swell. The farmer was now stuck on the roof of his home. A Coast Guard helicopter came by to rescue the farmer. Yet the farmer still refused to go. "God will save me," he said, almost defiantly.

The flood waters continued to rise, and the farmer drowned.

Upon facing God in heaven, the farmer was confused. "I don't get it," he said, "I've always had the strongest faith in you. I'm not questioning your decision, but I'm just curious, why didn't you save me?"

God looked at the farmer and said, "what do you mean? I sent a truck, a boat, and a helicopter."

The farmer didn't recognize his "guardian angels". Will you recognize yours?

There's a cartoon show called "Futurama" (of all the places to get spiritual insight). They did an episode once where one of the characters, Bender, meets God.

In the course of their discussion, God makes a comment about the balance required in dealing with people. God said, "If you do too much, people become dependent on you. If you do too little, no one will believe in you." God then added, "if you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Later on, back on earth, Bender decides to rescue some monks because, due to his encounter with God, he felt he couldn't depend on God to help, so he should do it himself. Then you hear God chuckle and say again, "if you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." Meaning that God did, in fact, save the monks, He simply used Bender to do it.

So, how often have you received help from God without ever knowing it?

cairaiii said:

Some Churches belive in guardian angels. The Roman Catholic Church does (though it is not required), but does have a feast day for the Guardian Angels. I really won't bother to look up Bible verses, if you say that we don't have guardians angels, I'll take that as your answer.

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Well, that's the point, though. If it isn't in the Bible, then is asking questions about them really the proper approach to what's troubling you?

Anyway, sorry for naming this Guardian Angles, I suppose only mathematicians get those.

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Good one. Probably so.

PRAYER.

Think about what the purpose of prayer is. If God could do everything without us, why does He need us to ask. He chooses to use our prayers.

Our prayers set things in motion. When we choose not to ask for help, whether out of doubt, exhaustion, self-sufficiency, faithlessness, or feeling overwhelmed, we have decided not to ask for help.

Please don't take these comments as any implication of guilt, because that's certainly not what I mean -- but when asking where the angels are when you need them.... sometimes they're just waiting to be dispatched.

This is where the concept came from -- but it doesn't show a one-to-one constant ratio.

Ps 91:11 - [ In Context | Because you have made the Lord your refuge...For he will give his angels charge of you to guard you in all your ways.

Lu 4:10 - [ In Context for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge of you, to guard you.'

heron said:

PRAYER.

Think about what the purpose of prayer is. If God could do everything without us, why does He need us to ask. He chooses to use our prayers.

Our prayers set things in motion. When we choose not to ask for help, whether out of doubt, exhaustion, self-sufficiency, faithlessness, or feeling overwhelmed, we have decided not to ask for help.

Please don't take these comments as any implication of guilt, because that's certainly not what I mean -- but when asking where the angels are when you need them.... sometimes they're just waiting to be dispatched.

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So are saying that everyone who was killed that day died because they did not pray for an angel to save them? I'm sure one out of the 30+ that died probably called God to save them, only to die like those who did not pray.

The only conclusion I can make is that one "guardian demon" is stronger than dozens of angels.

cairaiii said:

So are saying that everyone who was killed that day died because they did not pray for an angel to save them? I'm sure one out of the 30+ that died probably called God to save them, only to die like those who did not pray.

The only conclusion I can make is that one "guardian demon" is stronger than dozens of angels.

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Do you know how many of the survivors prayed? Do you know for a fact that God didn't intervene and prevent the kill count from being 100 instead of 30?

Do you think maybe, just maybe, there are more "conclusions" here that you aren't considering?

You took the words right out of my mouth XianJedi.

How do you know God wasn't there with those who survived and there for those who were repenting.

It breaks my heart to see that some people only acknowledge God when something goes wrong and then want to know why. Why not go to Him when everything is going good and be born again in the blood of Jesus Christ and then seek those answers from him. God does not like to see us hurt or to be murdered but if we don't seek him then how can he intervene. I can't forget God when my life is going great and only want him when times are tough, I have to seek him always and for everything. And God only knows how many more people could have been killed yesterday if he wasn't there.

God does not always answer our prayers in the way we think he should. He answers them in his time and in his way and everything he does is with reason and purpose and one day we will know that reason.

So are saying ...

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You bolded my disclaimer; I'm not sure why you're asking what I'm saying. It was a horrible incident, and this is no time to blame anyone but the person who did it. You asked about angels.

Do you remember any of the stories from survivors of 9-11? There were SO many people who escaped it through some fluke or hunch or another. Some were delayed getting to work, some home sick, some had a funny feeling they needed to be elsewhere... the building was emptier than usual.

There's an interesting series on angelic interventions on TBN this week -- I'm not sure how long it's running, but there are some great stories of people who felt physical pushes to change their plans and avoid danger.

Not sure which ones:

Miracles, Angels & Afterlife
Angels - Miraculous Messengershttp://media.tbn.org/real/tbn/gallery/Angels_Miraculous_Messengers.smi
Angels Sent On Assignment

So are you saying that the only people who died in 9/11 were godless or bad Christians, because the ones that prayed stayed home that day? Do you suppose if I pray everday nothing bad will happen to me? What of the martyrs, surely they were close to God, yet they were not spared death?

So again, it seems that demons are stronger than angels, or human evil is stronger than angelic goodness, or that neither angels nor demons exist.

I don't think anyone said that these people died because they did not believe in God. Some times bad things happen and people do things that are wrong and kill people, God does not do that. God knows our fate and knows when it is our time and sometimes that is the case, it is our time to go.

We as humans can not answer this question and sometimes we don't understand why, but God can answer those questions and if you want to know then seek those thru Him.

cairaiii said:

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him. If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

Why would God give you something that is of no use?

Click to expand...

Angels fulfill their jobs, according to what God allows them. As bad as it seems to us, the 32 that died, it was their time. Which is why we should all be ready because no one knows the time or the hour.

Right now, we only see partially, but there will be a time when we'll see fully.

Rita

cairaiii said:

In the Virginia Tech Shooting, where were the guardian angels of the victims, why didn't the shooters guardian angel stop him. If every soul has a guardian, why do we rarely hear of them helping anyone?

Why would God give you something that is of no use?

Click to expand...

Fiction. The Bible never says that there are guardian angels.

It's a complicated, but fair question. To answer it, one would need to know how many that were killed were Christians. It may seem cruel, but with a few exceptions, non-believers don't qualify for God's protection. Secondly, how many that were Christian were living lives that didn't block God from stepping in (I wish Christians and especially 20 somethingers would wake up to this).

This is probably a good spot to tell about an experience of maybe a dozen I've had with my angel. At the time, I had been a Christian about three years.

Back in the mid 70's, I operated a shop machine that was about as old as I was that had precious little in the way of safety guards.

One day, I dropped a plastic widget* into the bowels of this thing. I knew it had landed on exposed electrical terminals so I turned it off at the control panel switch and reached inside to retrieve the widget*. I was going to have to feel for it since it was too dark to see anything.

After reaching about halfway to it, an invivsible hand wrapped around my wrist and gently, yet firmly, kept me from reaching any further. I withdrew my hand, thought about this a minute, then decided it was just my imagination or something, and made a second attempt. Again a hand wrapped around my wrist and kept me from reaching further. My Momma didn't raise no fools. I was now pretty sure this was an angel and something was wrong enough for him to do this. Just to be absolutely sure I reached in a third time but only to see if it happened again. Either way, I had no intention of touching anything. Again the hand stopped me.

I'm paying attention now and wondering why he kept doing that. Then, my attention was drawn to the power outlet in the wall and saw that it was still plugged in. I unplugged it, got a flashlight and retrieved the widget* like I should have the first time. The thing is that I had worked on that machine many times by just turning it off. When I looked into it, I realized the widget* had landed in an area I hadn't worked on before. It had landed on terminals that circuit-wise, were on the incoming side of the control panel switch. I was about to touch live 440 volt terminals while also grounded to the steel frame of the machine by leaning on it.

BTW, I learned my lesson. I still use similar, but safer versions of that machine. I don't touch the insides without pulling the plug whether it's necessary or not.

*widgets are the same thing as thingamabobs and dohickies.

Wading in here--

We do have angels, at least children do. Do you remember the time Jesus talked about little children and said to take care in how they are treated, because in heaven, their angels "always see the face of My Father," Matt. 18:10. Seeing the first part of this verse, "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones," which speaks of one child, singular, and comparing that to the last part of the verse where the word "angels" is plural, several commentators have concluded that we may well have more than one angel each. And I believe that they are right.

But who has these angels? Children, certainly. And, I believe, those who have sold out to Jesus Christ and are covered by His blood, hence having a hedge of protection around them, see Job 1:5 and 1:10.

At Virginia Tech Monday, were there any angels there? I believe so. Was God protecting His children? I believe He was. Did all of God's children make it out safely? They may not have.

And why did this all happen in the first place?

Something that many Christians and non-Christians don't realize is that God does not rule this world. Satan does. Jesus Himself said that Satan was the ruler of this world, John 12:31; 14:30: 16:11. Furthermore, when Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of this world and the glory thereof, Jesus did not deny that Satan had them, Matt. 4:8.

Satan's rulership was one of the consequences of the fall. Adam and Eve and their offspring were supposed to have dominion, Gen. 1:28. Satan stole that dominion, and this earth is under a curse, Gen. 3:17; Romans 8:21.

So if Satan rules this world, why are we so amazed at the fact that the one who Jesus said comes to "kill, steal and destroy," John 10:10, does just that?

Further, ALL of us are under the curse, and ALL of us deserve death, Rom. 3:23; 6:23. Satan rules this world, and his plan is that all his children (us) will one day suffer the same torment in hell he will.

Unless there is a way out.

There is.

Satan has a legal hold on us because of sin. If there is a way to pay for that sin, then we can be set free.

There is.

In the old Testament, the only way to God was if something took the death that man was accorded as his penalty when he followed Satan and sinned against God. Hence, the Levitical sacrifices. Even before that, the patriarchs offered sacrifice. The idea was that the animal sacrifice substituted for the death of the worshipper, and for a little while there could be communion with God.

Jesus became the final sacrifice. He substituted for our death. For those who give them their lives and ask Him to be their Savior, He is their payment for sin, and their way out.

Going back to Virginia Tech. God's angels would have been around every believer, whether they were close to God at that time or not. They would have been helping those believers, rescuing not only them, but the people around them as well.

But it is also possible that God would have allowed a believer to be shot along with the rest. God is sovereign, and He is in all time. Suppose, for example, God saw that that person was as close to God as they would ever be. Would He take them then? Maybe.

Would God even allow His own to die, even though their lives are prematurely cut short? Yes, perhaps. We play a role by prayer as well. When Peter was taken prisoner in the book of Acts, for example, the Church prayed for his release. He was released--because of prayer. Is it possible that prayer could have saved more lives Monday? Yes.

I am deeply saddened by what happened on Monday, but I cannot be surprised. We live in a world that is ruled by Satan. Why are we so surprised when Satan uses someone to murder others, and to cause as much hurt and damage as he can?

Thank you for that post. I think I get it now.