Why are creationists so threatened by science?

Wiccan_Child said:

Please, explain how science is threatened by Creationists.

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Creationists said: Some of the current scientific understanding is not good enough or is wrong.

juvenissun said:

Creationists said: Some of the current scientific understanding is not good enough or is wrong.

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And why does this threaten science? It's something we freely admit - modern scientific knowledge can always be refined and improved upon.

In this particular case, Creationists accusations aren't even based in sound sceptism - they lambast scientists for carbon dating fossils (despite the idiocy of such a thing), they make up formulae to fit their foregone conclusions and then hold this up as something we scientists shouldmtake seriously (such as their contrived assumption that the world's population doubles every 150 years and concluding, surprise surprise, a 6000 year old world - suffice to say, populations don't work like this).

In short, there are two types of Creationists: those who state the obvious and say science is open to change - a statement already freely admitted by scientists, so one wonders why they bother to make it at all.

The second type are those who make specific claims alledging this or that is wrong - and these claims are almost always wrong.

So tell me again what science should feel threatened by - is it the bogus claims debunked years ago, or statements that are already a core part of science?

Wiccan_Child said:

So tell me again what science should feel threatened by -

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Not finding an EXIT when the proper time comes.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

juvenissun said:

Creationists said: Some of the current scientific understanding is not good enough or is wrong.

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Unsupported absurd claims by people outside of whatever professional expertise they may have about science is not a threat to science. It is a threat to the credibility of all Christianity by association. I think it is really sad that there is are few organizations and groups of people who seem to take pride in deliberately misrepresenting many different fields of science for their own personal satisfaction and gain. They have strayed far from the path that Jesus put us on.

AV1611VET said:

Not finding an EXIT when the proper time comes.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

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If by that you mean those who deliberately deceive and misrepresent.

RickG said:

If by that you mean those who deliberately deceive and misrepresent.

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By that, I mean science ... more specifically, Mother Nature.

AV1611VET said:

By that, I mean science ... more specifically, Mother Nature.

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Generally from a scientists point of view, "Mother Nature" and God are one in the same, in a rhetorical sense.

juvenissun said:

Creationists said: Some of the current scientific understanding is not good enough or is wrong.

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Science doesn't consider that a threat, they consider that a challenge.

The problem is that creationism has nothing to support its claim.

CabVet said:

I wanted to start a thread specifically about this because it is a theme we keep coming back to in every other thread, so maybe we can try to discuss specifically this issue here. Why are creationists so threatened by science?

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Science has filled many holes once occupied by religion; forcing religion to scamper off looking for new holes to fill.
Now why would it surprise you when those obsessed by religion see science as a threat?

Ken

Ken-1122 said:

Science has filled many holes once occupied by religion; forcing religion to scamper off looking for new holes to fill.
Now why would it surprise you when those obsessed by religion see science as a threat?

Ken

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I think the God of the gaps argument is old. If you look at our knowledge of our planet and the universe, life and all its intricate parts, I see a proclammation to Gods glory. Its not about the gaps its about what we know.

diychristian said:

I think the God of the gaps argument is old. If you look at our knowledge of our planet and the universe, life and all its intricate parts, I see a proclammation to Gods glory. Its not about the gaps its about what we know.

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The God of the gaps argument might be old, but you gotta admit; many religious people still seem to use it.

Ken

diychristian said:

As far as faith without evidence. This is stealing a definition that isn't extolled in the Bible. Read some of Proverbs it talks heavily of wisdom and knowledge. 1 peter 3:15 tells us (Christians) to have a reason for the hope that is in us. Now I'll grant you that today to many Christians check their brains at the church door, but they also leave their faith at church (that is a big problem).

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Glad to see someone correct that popular myth about the meaning of faith. (Even some of the Christians on these threads appear to accept that no-evidence-for-faith definition.)

And people forget that Jesus himself said that the church would be filled with LOTS of pretenders and deceived ones who only go through the motions. They THINK they are a follower of Christ. Yet, the words ring out that in the last judgment: "Did I not cast out demons in your name?" and the response in that judgment is, "Depart from me! I never knew you."

The Parable of the Sower states that many "play along" for a while but are not genuine Christ-followers. The genuine reproduce after their own kind, bearing fruit a hundred-fold. So said Jesus.

So it is no wonder that we have the "noise" of so many crazy people on Internet threads posting gibberish nonsense about what they THINK the Bible says---when they are simply spouting their favorite traditions and imaginations. If they are truly Christ-followers, they will illustrate what it means to be Christ-like. (Being an idiotic is NOT being like Christ. Foolishness is not a fruit of the Spirit. When the Apostle Paul wrote of being a fool for Christ, he was not talking about foolish rants. He referred to the apparent foolishness of the cross of Christ as the very core message of the Gospel.)

I have great sympathy for the non-Christian trying to sort out what it means to be a Christ-follower amidst the craziness of a wide variety of Christ pretenders. But anything of high value attracts counterfeits. So it has always been. It sounds cliched, but it is a timeless maxim.

The modern meme of the clueless Christian --- made famous in no small measure by young earth creationist ministry leaders and their pseudo-science antics [and their prison sentences, such as Kent Hovind and wife] --- has little to do with the teachings of Christ and a lot to do with cultish fools spreading nonsense and getting lots of attention for it. (Has not Ken Ham's Creation Museum become an entertaining media-favorite as it exposed all evangelical Christians and even the Bible in general to mockery? Ignorance coupled with arrogance makes an irresistible target.)

No, it was not so long ago that Christianity was known for championing education and science, not pseudo-science folly. Anti-intellectualism within American Christianity can easily be traced to various movements of the late 1800's. The "creation science" fad and folly is easily explained within that backdrop. It is a sad commentary on what happens when Christians get sidetracked by their own ignorance. The crazy world of the YEC ministry entrepreneurs and their growing industry should not be confused with the teachings of Christ nor the Bible in general.

diychristian said:

I think the God of the gaps argument is old. If you look at our knowledge of our planet and the universe, life and all its intricate parts, I see a proclammation to Gods glory.

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Where, exactly?

Ken-1122 said:

The God of the gaps argument might be old, but you gotta admit; many religious people still seem to use it.

Ken

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Evolution runs on so many gaps (missing links), you could drive a universe through it.

Wiccan_Child said:

Where, exactly?

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The plan of salvation in the stars, for starters.

AV1611VET said:

The plan of salvation in the stars, for starters.

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You still believe in that, don't you? How quaint.

Well then, here's your plan -- feel free to read it to us.

TLK Valentine said:

Well then, here's your plan -- feel free to read it to us.

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Me!?

You ... you want me to read to a shrewdness of scientists!?

I ... I'm touched!

AV1611VET said:

Me!?

You ... you want me to read to a shrewdness of scientists!?

I ... I'm touched!

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I want to watch you fail and make excuses as usu-- as always.

Thank you -- you are many things, but not a disappointment.

TLK Valentine said:

I want to watch you fail and make excuses as usu-- as always.

Thank you -- you are many things, but not a disappointment.

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You're the literature professor; surely you've heard of God's Voice in the Stars, by Ken Fleming ... haven't you?

Or do you just deal in fiction?

AV1611VET said:

You're the literature professor; surely you've heard of God's Voice in the Stars, by Ken Fleming ... haven't you?

Or do you just deal in fiction?

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I do deal in fiction -- so naturally, I know something of Fleming's work.

What Fleming does is no different from what every other culture and civilization has done since they first started looking up at the sky -- he's just a little more arrogant than most.

Given that there is nothing in the patterns of the stars themselves to indicate the meanings attached to them, he's free to mine the Bible to attach his own interpretations to the classical Babylonian constellations -- which he does.

Indeed -- quite the creative work of fiction, but creativity is no substitute for fact.