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dies-l
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Kormagh said:
That is a common explanation, but it is based on speculation rather than sound exegesis.
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Kormagh said:Humans were made in the image of God. God is perfect and we have sinned against him. God, being perfectly just, must punish sinners; and since we have sinned against the most perfect, holy being in the universe, even the smallest act of disobedience toward him is justly deserving of an eternity in the lake of fire that was prepared for Satan and the angels that followed him in disobedience.
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No, I don't. Are humans the only beings that are punished in Hell?
no I believe satan and His demons are as well.
The OP said no Bible verses, just opinions. But it is grounded in scripture.Timothew said:Interesting. Can I see the scripture you used to come to this conclusion?
Paul said that the result of sin is death, and death entered the world through sin. (Romans 5:12, Romans 6:23, basically all of Romans 5 and 6)
Where does the bible say "the smallest act of disobedience toward God is justly deserving of an eternity in the lake of fire"?
Ok, so we're on the same page there. So, I guess I'm not seeing your point: If the fires of hell burn eternally, it does not necessary that people who are destroyed in hell suffer eternally. In fact, the very words "destroy", "destruction", and "death" would suggest that there is an end to human suffering for the unredeemed.
Oh, sorry. Then I'm in the wrong place.The OP said no Bible verses, just opinions. But it is grounded in scripture.
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here lets try again. If hell is eternal it would necessitate there to be eternal fire. If hell is temporary then it would necessitate that the fires turn off eventually after everything is burned up. This is the only way to keep the fires of hell forever burning with nothing in the fire. Make sense yet. Please don't keep playing the naive person. I know you can understand my point.
Timothew said:Oh, sorry. Then I'm in the wrong place.
My opinion (but which is also backed up by scripture) is that only those who are in Christ receive eternal life. Those who are outside Christ do not receive eternal life in hell or anywhere else.
No punishment for sin? Then ya could do whatever you want with no consequences! Why live forever when ya could live it up doing whatever ya want now?
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No punishment for sin? Then ya could do whatever you want with no consequences! Why live forever when ya could live it up doing whatever ya want now?
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Quote; Those who are outside Christ do not receive eternal life in hell or anywhere else.
You're right, he's wrong Kormagh. But you aren't going to convince his closed mind with any scriptural text no matter how clear it is that sinners do go to a place of torment in hell.
He and his buddies tell us there is no place of torment. Really?
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Now notice, the devil, the false prophet (a man) and the beast (a man) are cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.
But remember what Jesus said to those he judges in that coming great day. Observe:
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Who was Jesus talking to in the verse? Sinners who rejected Him! Just read the context of Matthew 25!
dies-l said:Who said anything about "no punishment for sin"? It would seem that the punishment for sin is death. That's a pretty dire consequence if you ask me.
Everyone dies. The Bible undeniably says all will be resurrected and judged. So where would you get that death is the only punishment for sin?
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dies-l said:Romans 6:23 is a start. Now, where would you get "eternal torment" as punishment for sin?
Revelation 14:11 ESV
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
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The OP said no bible verses just opinions. And I never said there was no punishment for sin. Death is a pretty big punishment. And I just have to ask you the same thing I ask everyone who says "Then we would get to do whatever we want!" Ready? "What is it that you want to do, that is so bad, and yet so good, that only the threat of eternal torture will stop you from doing it?" Here's what I want to do, I'll tell you right now, what I would do if I could get away with it. If there were no hell, if there were no no punishment for sin at all, here's what I would want to do. Are you ready? I would worship God.No punishment for sin? Then ya could do whatever you want with no consequences! Why live forever when ya could live it up doing whatever ya want now?
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If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didnt love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of Gods secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didnt love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didnt love others, I would have gained nothing.Quote; Those who are outside Christ do not receive eternal life in hell or anywhere else.
You're right, he's wrong Kormagh. But you aren't going to convince his closed mind with any scriptural text no matter how clear it is that sinners do go to a place of torment in hell.
He and his buddies tell us there is no place of torment. Really?
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Now notice, the devil, the false prophet (a man) and the beast (a man) are cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.
But remember what Jesus said to those he judges in that coming great day. Observe:
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Who was Jesus talking to in the verse? Sinners who rejected Him! Just read the context of Matthew 25!
dies-l said:Fair enough. Anything that talks about eternal torment for all unredeemed persons?
Kormagh said:Matthew 25:41 ESV
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 18:8 ESV
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Revelation 20:14-15 ESV
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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