seeingeyes
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So you've done some studying up, then? I seem to remember that you started one of these hell threads awhile back. Have you learned a lot (other than the fact that threads on hell are hell
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eternal hell = not in the bible
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
eternal hell = not in the bible
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
LOL, I like your Avatar, is that bamboo shoot?Fred V B,
"Once again, torture in eternity is not mentioned but torment is, which was explained several times. The burning is a metaphor, there will be anguish there is anguish forever that is mentioned, what it will be will be in total fairness as Yahweh is perfectly just in his goodness, how is that saying he is evil let alone infinitely so? This is using twisted logic that does not recognize what is really said."
Not sure if I'm getting you right. Tormenting someone eternally for sins committed during a lifetime is "total fairness" how, exactly? How is it NOT unfair and evil to punish someone infinitely more than they deserve?
1. Satan will be burned forever. That might be why the fire is eternal.
Matthew 25:41
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
If your soul goes into nonexistence forever, the punishment lasts forever. It doesn't mean he destroys you over and over forever.Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Even if eternal torment is a true doctrine, God being eternal doesn't prove it.If God is eternal, sinners will reap their just retribution for eternity.
This verse doesn't prove or disprove eternal torment.The wages of sin is death.
I love Jesus and I know He died for my sins, but I have no idea how this sentence is relevant to what I said.Jesus Christ is the only way we can be seen as righteous, without blemish. Our sins are washed by His blood.
Most obvious statement of the universe, also doesn't prove or disprove eternal torment.Sinners in hell will never be forgiven.
By 'just retribution' you mean eternal torment?They will receive their just retribution for as long as God lives.
Of course He didn't. He died to save us. But that doesn't prove or disprove eternal torment.Jesus Christ didn't die for nothing.
So you've done some studying up, then? I seem to remember that you started one of these hell threads awhile back. Have you learned a lot (other than the fact that threads on hell are hell)?
I have had debates with many people who actually state that they do not want to go to heaven under any circumstance because they literally believe God to be evil, and that they actually want to go to hell because they think it will be one big giant party. A place has to be set aside for eternal beings who will not bow their knee and confess to almighty God.
I learned a whole bunch of things that affected my opinion on whether or not eternal torment is a false doctrine.
And I like threads about it. They are my favorite threads to read. One thing that would be interesting to see, is someone changing their mind on the matter. But I have a feeling I won't be seeing that for a long time.
How about people who would rather be in hell themselves than sitting in bliss while their loved ones burn forever? Talked to anyone like that?
Yes. I have, I'm kind of in that boat myself sometimes. Someone once said I was a terrible example of Christianity on forum and that I drove people away form Christ intead of to him, and I said "If I stood in front of the Lord on Judgement day and He said to me", 'All these people are going to hell becuase of you, I would jump into hell and I wouldnt need to be pushed.
How about you?
Absolutely. I was one of those who "cross land and sea to make one convert, and then turn that person into twice the child of hell" that I was. But then it occurred to me that the God I was 'selling' wasn't even half as good as I was. I, by simply ignoring others out of self interest, was 'gooder' than this God that I was preaching.
Of course, when I say this 'occurred' to me, I mean that the Spirit knocked me upside the head.
The Spirit is good like that.
Yep. lol
So I had some sacred cows to kill off, and that was scary. (Can we trust our Father to hold us up even if our theology is wrong?) But I had to look at these issues very honestly, without fear, because the theology I had led straight to the conclusion (among others) that Random Unbeliever X who would rather go to hell himself than watch his loved ones go to hell without him was wrongheaded and foolish even though this is exactly the attitude and action we see in Christ.
"Can we trust our Father to hold us up even if our theology is wrong?"
Of opurse. I believe there are many saved professing atheists in the world because they are possessing Christians who at one point believed the gospel and have now been deceived.
"even though this is exactly the attitude and action we see in Christ"
What do yo mean by that?
You are wise, indeed!
It's important to remember that whatever description we have of 'hell' is also a description of our God. There's no tip-toeing around it.
So when we talk about hell, we are not dithering over some silly theological knick-knack like whether turtles have souls, we are talking about the very nature and character of our God.
Minds may be changed, but only by the Spirit.
1. Satan will be burned forever. That might be why the fire is eternal.
2. Everlasting fire can mean the effects are eternal.
If your soul goes into nonexistence forever, the punishment lasts forever. It doesn't mean he destroys you over and over forever.
Just like if your mom grounds you for a week, the punishment lasts a week. It doesn't mean she grounds you over and over for a whole week.
Do you believe that eternal life isn't really eternal either?Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Even if eternal torment is a true doctrine, God being eternal doesn't prove it.
This verse doesn't prove or disprove eternal torment.
By 'just retribution' you mean eternal torment?
I'm not a firm believer in either eternal torment or conditionalism, but I think that people often make irrelevant arguments in favor of both opinions.
No there isnt. A christian places intellectual faith in facts. We agree with God, its just that simple. "What does "stepping out in faith" mean? It's waffle in my opinion.There's a vast chasm between intellectually believing that and actually stepping out in faith.
No there isnt. A christian places intellectual faith in facts. We agree with God, its just that simple. "What does "stepping out in faith" mean? It's waffle in my opinion.
Ooops, sorry. Didn't mean to hit you with the 'Christianese' without explaining myself.
How comfortable are you at examining the facts of your faith? In regard to hell you said, "we dont understand how something can exist in such a place or why a merciful God would send anyone there" and that you left off going to church for a while over the issue.
Did you ever get your answer?
No matter what my underatanding of it is doesnt matter because we are not to lean on our own understanding. I decided that God is good and I worked back from there. Justice and wrath is "love" too. Still, Mind = blown, will always be my state.
I was hoping to get other peoples perspectives, that's all.
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