I've set the image to show ONLY IF the prewrath rapture happens. (kidding) I don't know what's wrong with it.When I click on that attachment I encounter the following----Christian Forums - Error
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Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture:
[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and
[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].
I'll wait.
What happens is that people cite the texts which say "reign on the earth", but nowhere does it state that this is the 1,000 year period, and confuse it with the eternal (for ever and ever) reign, after all is said an done.
I cited Daniel, properly. Daniel 7:22, when the saints "possess" the Kingdom, is after a "time" happens. Notice that the "time" came. That doesn't happen until after the events I already cited happen.
As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).
Therefore, again, and without obfuscation, here is what I require from you in your next reply:
Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture.
So I'm a pharisee and you're Jesus.
If we can examine this without the hyperbole, you have put me in a position of having to make a choice. My two options are the Ecumenical Councils or you. I know where the Ecumenical Councils got their authority from, it came from Jesus Christ:
Mat 18:19 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
I can take the side of the Ecumenical Councils, or I can take your side. I am giving you the opportunity to state your case and convince me.
Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture:
[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and
[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].
I'll wait.
What happens is that people cite the texts which say "reign on the earth", but nowhere does it state that this is the 1,000 year period, and confuse it with the eternal (for ever and ever) reign, after all is said an done.
I cited Daniel, properly. Daniel 7:22, when the saints "possess" the Kingdom, is after a "time" happens. Notice that the "time" came. That doesn't happen until after the events I already cited happen.
As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life (see Revelation 9:1,2,11, 17:8, 20:1,3; Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7. See also the so-called LXX uses in (LXX) Genesis 1:2, 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 8:7, 33:13; Job 38:16,30, 41:32 (41:24); Psalms 33:7 (32:7), 71:20 (70:20), 71:21 (70:21), 78:15 (77:15), 106:9 (105:9), 107:26 (106:26), 135:6 (134:6); Proverbs 8:24; Isaiah 44:27, 51:10, 63:13; and in the apocryphal books/texts of (LXX) Daniel 3:54; Wisdom 10:19; Sirach 24:5,29.), as per: Jeremiah 4:23-28, 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22, 11:4, 24:1-6,17-22, 34:1-17 and in Psalms 37:13 already mentioned above and in Psalms 149:8 (and surrounding context).
Therefore, again, and without obfuscation, here is what I require from you in your next reply:
Show me the specific verses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that the 1,000 years reign of the saints, takes place on earth, and not as I showed from the scripture.
He "seriously" misunderstands a lot, even the basics of the New Covenant and Gospel itself, and carries with him the germ of many incorrect theologies, and still promotes a lot of what he was before. "Calvary Chapel" (was that a name drop?, if so, means nothing to me, except more erroneous materials), is not relevant to the OP, is it? and neither Steve G.As a former member of a Calvary Chapel church and a former teacher of modern Dispensational Theology, Steve Gregg "seriously" understands what many are promoting, because he used to promote it himself.
I agree about the "reign" (though there is already a reign now, on the heart), but not about the location of said reign. As stated, there is not a single text which declares that Jesus' reign upon His second Advent is upon this sin polluted earth, which will be wracked by the 7 last plagues and great earthquake etc., as already cited. The saints are caught up together unto Jesus at the 2nd Advent, and as stated in:Actually the reign starts when Jesus returns to this earth.
I already agree, thus proving my earlier points, and scriptural references, that there are no reigning saints on the sin polluted, and desolated earth, great earthquake which ruptures the earth again and the falling of the last plagues and their devastation (look at the texts I already cited on the empty earth, except for satan and his angels, trapped here in the pit), with the atmosphere ripped away at the 2nd Advent (2 Peter 3:10), and completed in the 3rd Advent (2 Peter 3:12). Again notice:The new earth is not till the end of the 1000 years.
The 1,000 years literal, "Yes." On the earth, "No." There is no such text, and people are conflating the "1,000" years reign (Heaven) for the saints inheriting the earth made new and the reign there, "for ever and ever".There is no solid reason not to take the reign of Christ on earth as 1,000 literal years.
It is pretty clear folks.
The 1,000 years literal, "Yes." On the earth, "No." There is no such text, and people are conflating the "1,000" years reign (Heaven) for the saints inheriting the earth made new and the reign there, "for ever and ever".
By definition, "1000" (limited time span) is not "for ever and ever" (eternal time span).
Go, read all the texts which speak of "reign" "on the earth" and see if you find any context to 1,000 years, or rather is it "for ever and ever" nearby.
It is enough, do not assume otherwise, as you would be grossly incorrect and way outside of your knowledge of the situation of my own heart. That is not territory for you to trample upon. "Stay off the grass" as it were, and 'You kids get off my lawn.'Is the word of God not good enough for you
No. I already provided enough texts for anyone desirous to know the difference between truth, as scripture gives, and error, which men give.that you need a couple of people to confirm the word of God?
KJB:
Gog and Magog, indeed. All the wicked who ever lived since Cain, basically. The book of Revelation is drawing upon OT types, in the greater end anti-type. Just as the book of Revelation does for Jezebel, Balaam, Babylon, Egypt, etc. Symbolic names of OT events that now represent a greater historical event.Rev 20 itself says Gog shall compass the camp of the saints about.
It is not on "Jupiter", but is in the 3rd heaven, well beyond Jupiter.Now if you claim the camp of the saints is on jupiter
"Gog" isn't. God and the city is coming down to them on a differing location than Mt. Moriah (earthly Jerusalem), but rather to the east of it, on the Mt. of Olives (Zechariah 14), as was done in Ezekiel as a type (Glory of God moved over to the east).then how is Gog going tocarry all his weapons up there?
"Geez" is a twisting of "Jesus". Please don't use that.Geez dude.
I already know, but it is not speaking of some area in Palestine, but in spiritual matters, see 1 Corinthians 15:46. Who is "Gog" spiritually, rather than phsyically. Jesus is Israel, see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; and his children are His disciples, see Hebrews 2:9-13 (vs 13) and Isaiah 8:8-20 (vs 16,18); John 13:33, and so on.Theres a couple of chapters in,ezekiel alone that says Gog invades israel.
What you believe about Heaven is "clouds" and aether, but what I believe is what scripture says it is, real tangible place, that Jesus ascended to with real flesh and bones in a glorified body to go back to His Father's House, where the person of the Father really is, bodily, since the Son is the "express image" of the Father.Get your head out of the clouds.
Scripture please. I want the most exact and precise and clearest text that says that please. Produce that text, even one.It will be a 1,000 year reign by Christ here on this present earth beginning at the Second Coming of Christ
All assumed. No text says that either. People borrow from Noah and Daniel, eisegetically.at the end of the 7 year tribulation.
Stick to Bible.
It began at the resurrection and ended 1,000 years later.Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.
It is enough, do not assume otherwise, as you would be grossly incorrect and way outside of your knowledge of the situation of my own heart. That is not territory for you to trample upon. "Stay off the grass" as it were, and 'You kids get off my lawn.'
No. I already provided enough texts for anyone desirous to know the difference between truth, as scripture gives, and error, which men give.
KJB:
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Where did this "camp of the saints" come from? Heaven or Earth?
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
It came from Heaven, and it is after the Lord returns the 3rd time (with all of the saints), after the 1000 years.
Gog and Magog, indeed. All the wicked who ever lived since Cain, basically. The book of Revelation is drawing upon OT types, in the greater end anti-type. Just as the book of Revelation does for Jezebel, Balaam, Babylon, Egypt, etc. Symbolic names of OT events that now represent a greater historical event.
It is not on "Jupiter", but is in the 3rd heaven, well beyond Jupiter.
The Bible speaks of how it (the Jerusalem above) shall come to earth, and it deals with the star systems, Orion and the Pleiades (7 sisters, 7 stars), and the opening and closing of the Heavens as seen throughout scripture.
"Gog" isn't. God and the city is coming down to them on a differing location than Mt. Moriah (earthly Jerusalem), but rather to the east of it, on the Mt. of Olives (Zechariah 14), as was done in Ezekiel as a type (Glory of God moved over to the east).
Isa_24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days (1000 years, Rev. 20) shall they be visited (come back down to earth after 1000 years; Rev. 21).
As already shown.
"Geez" is a twisting of "Jesus". Please don't use that.
"Dude" is a well dressed man (look it up). I am wearing the wedding garments God gave me.
I already know, but it is not speaking of some area in Palestine, but in spiritual matters, see 1 Corinthians 15:46. Who is "Gog" spiritually, rather than phsyically. Jesus is Israel, see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; and his children are His disciples, see Hebrews 2:9-13 (vs 13) and Isaiah 8:8-20 (vs 16,18); John 13:33, and so on.
What you believe about Heaven is "clouds" and aether, but what I believe is what scripture says it is, real tangible place, that Jesus ascended to with real flesh and bones in a glorified body to go back to His Father's House, where the person of the Father really is, bodily, since the Son is the "express image" of the Father.
The only way you can make the above work is by ignoring the following scripture.
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
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So youbelieve new jetusalem,comes down,outof heaven before the earth passes away?
Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
Putting the cart before the horse.
The new Jerusalem does not come down to this earth until after the wicked are destroyed. Which is after the 1000 years.
2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
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Convince me the 1,000 years of Revelation must be understood as 1,000 literal years, please.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
OK---what is it you think this means??
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