Why a good, Bible-believing Christian can vote Democratic

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Evan Jellicoe

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In discussing American politics on a forum like this, the most fun seems to come from arguing about specific things that happen, and specific statements or actions by political figures. But I like to stay focused on the big picture, which is How am I going to vote in the next election? Should I, as a Christian, support anybody who’s out there? If so, whom should I support?

My own answer I that I support Democratic candidates now. But how can that be? Since about 1980 the working assumption has been that Bible-believing Christians should of course vote for Republicans or conservative Democrats, primarily because of the abortion issue, but then also because of everything related to a preference for limited government. I was taught this mindset when I was a young Christian, I agreed with it, and I voted Republican in every election until 2012.

Why did I change to Democrat since 2016?

Well, first, understand that it wasn't just because of one person. Even before 2016 I considered myself, like George Bush called himself, a compassionate conservative. By that I mean that, because of how I understood my Christian faith, caring about the good of other people was important to me. From that conviction I supported Republican policies because I believed, with Ronald Reagan, that a rising tide floats all boats. I believed that a stronger general economy did more to help people than did social programs in a weak economy. I also believed that America really had reached the point where everybody did have equal opportunity. I had no problem with unequal outcomes, because outcomes were the responsibility of the individual. I believed that individuals who did not do their own part to take advantage of their opportunities did not really deserve to be bailed out.

Then, watching the early campaign action in 2015, I began thinking hard about those things I believed, and a number of things fell into place at the same time. It was the healthcare debate that influenced me the most. As I watched Republicans make illogical argument about why the poor were not entitled to health care if they couldn’t afford it, and as I heard more and more Republicans arguing for things like the abolition of the minimum wage, and saw them use “ivory tower” arguments that sounded reasonable but did not actually reflect the real world, I slowly came to realize that a good chunk of what I believed was wrong. Like most people, I hate admitting that I am wrong, especially out loud to other people. But this time I had to.

Why?

Stated as briefly as possible, without the entire detailed rationale that led me to each one, here are the basic reasons (which are, of course, my own beliefs based on my understanding of what the Bible says. You may disagree, and you are free to do so. But here are my thoughts for your consideration):

First, I used the Bible to find out what conclusions I should come to. Jesus Christ is Lord of everything in my life, seven days a week, not just churchy things on Sunday. That includes my political choices.

Then—

1) The extreme anti-abortion argument is not supported by the Bible or by ordinary reasoning. In the first place, nobody actually treats abortion and infant murder as exactly equal; if they did, the doctor would be tried and convicted of first-degree murder, and the woman would be tried and convicted of murder-for-hire. And almost nobody is willing to go that far. Not even the state of Alabama, which recently passed the strictest anti-abortion law so far. Even that Alabama law expressly says that the woman is not guilty of a crime; only the doctor is. In the second place, the Bible does not support the idea. The “proof texts” most often cited are not speaking about when life begins, they are speaking about God’s foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is the only possible interpretation of “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]. This does not mean “before Jeremiah was born,” it clearly says “before Jeremiah was formed.” God knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah even began to exist. Foreknowledge.

Also, much of the Christian discussion of when life begins seems to ignore one very critical component of life: life requires both a body and a soul. A beating heart is not proof of life; a soul is required. Catholic thinkers, at least, have always placed this issue out front, but Evangelicals often seem to be saying that a functioning body, or even a fertilized cell, is all that is required for a living person. Technically, this is actually a heresy.

Therefore, I will summarize and say that the Bible gives good support for the common Christian belief that “life” (the presence of a soul within a baby), begins when the baby draws its first breath outside the womb. Regardless, the question itself properly belongs under the heading of freedom of conscience because there simply is no clear Bible passage that answers the question. Therefore, a person [read: political candidate] who says, “I am personally against abortion but I believe a mother must be allowed to follow her conscience, not mine,” is voicing a completely Bible-supported point of view.

I guess I said more about that than I intended to, because it tends to be a make-or-break, non-negotiable issue for some. So I said why it isn’t make-or-break for me. Now let’s move on to the next point.

2) No nation can establish God’s righteousness by law. Yeah, that’s what I see when Christians quote II Chronicles 7:14 as a reason to vote Republican. Electing the right lawmakers so they can write proper laws and appoint good judges cannot make America a righteous nation. Righteousness only comes by individual faith, not by law. The New Testament is absolutely crystal clear on this point. Oh, laws do have their legitimate uses, but bringing about righteousness is not one of them. II Chronicles 7:14 is addressed to God’s people, not to unbelievers, and is a call to heart repentance, not to voting Republican.

3) The Bible does not demand “limited government.” It does not demand any particular form of government at all. It does not even give express approval to a constitutional republic. Yet here we are, with the Christian voters in the country using our best human judgment to discern what the Bible allows.

4) One thing I especially object to is the implied assumption there are only two economic choices: free enterprise or communism. This is absurd. “Regulation” is not even remotely the same thing as “communism.” Calling Democrats “communists” is just as wrong as calling Republicans “Nazis.” As a Christian, I believe in civil discourse, not name-calling and strident propaganda. And I have adopted, as my fundamental social position, the idea of “the greatest good for the largest number.” That does not mean favoring the poor over the rich, but it does mean following the teachings in the Book of James about not favoring the rich over the poor. I believe that current Republican policies do exactly that. It turns out that a “rising tide” does not lift all boats. In fact, the whole shift away from “demand-side” economics toward “supply-side” economics turned out to be a shift away from looking out for the overall welfare of society, and toward focusing on the good of the “suppliers” (business owners and investors). Republicans have been quite open about wanting to scale back, or even eliminate, social safety net programs, and I believe that their justifications for that are contrary to what the Bible teaches. I see the Evangelical opposition to social welfare programs as being equivalent to believing that individuals should do what the Good Samaritan did, but government should do as those did who just walked on past the injured man. I also believe that what social programs are doing is not so much practicing redistribution of wealth as they are combating the effects of the ungodly concentration of wealth in the first place.

5) As a general catch-all, when I see people point out some apparent bad parts of Democratic policy, I often agree completely. I do not think for a moment that Democratic policies (let alone individual Democratic politicians) are uniformly saintly. Neither party can be called a Christian party. I merely believe, on balance, that the Democratic party is the lesser evil, with policies that are generally better for the whole of society than Republican policies are.

And I believe that because of what the Bible says.
 
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Well, I'm an independent, and I will be voting for Biden in the upcoming election.
However, I don't agree with what you said about abortion at all.

Anyway, my perspective is this: If more Christians took the time to pray and wait for God's choice on who to vote for besides taking party lines then things would be radically different. For the better or worse; regardless. It's God who sets people up and brings them down. Trump is showing his true colors. He's had his opportunity. True character comes out not at when things are going great but when adversity hits.
 
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I was an atheistic conservative for many years. I voted Republican mainly based on the belief that they were fiscally conservative. But as the years passed it became more and more obvious that they were no longer the fiscally conservative party. It was both Trump and the question of medical care that flipped me from the Party. Both parties have good traits and bad traits and Trump appealed to all of the bad traits of the part. Second when it comes to medical care it is rather obvious that a one payer system is the fiscally conservative approach to medical care. And if people complain and call it "socialism" the proper answer is that they are only calling government programs that they do not like "socialism". By the definition that they use our schools, road system, police and fire departments and more are all examples of "socialism". Even our military falls in that category.

I am still fiscally conservative. I am no longer Republican. Biden is not my ideal candidate, but he is far superior to the alternative.
 
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SkyWriting

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I was an atheistic conservative for many years. I voted Republican mainly based on the belief that they were fiscally conservative. But as the years passed it became more and more obvious that they were no longer the fiscally conservative party. It was both Trump and the question of medical care that flipped me from the Party. Both parties have good traits and bad traits and Trump appealed to all of the bad traits of the part. Second when it comes to medical care it is rather obvious that a one payer system is the fiscally conservative approach to medical care. And if people complain and call it "socialism" the proper answer is that they are only calling government programs that they do not like "socialism". By the definition that they use our schools, road system, police and fire departments and more are all examples of "socialism". Even our military falls in that category.

I am still fiscally conservative. I am no longer Republican. Biden is not my ideal candidate, but he is far superior to the alternative.

“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]

It says that.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]

It says that.
Yes it does, as I mentioned in my original post. Before God ever even formed Jeremiah, He knew him. God knows everything throughout all space and time. "Eternity" does not mean "time stretching on without ever ending." It means being outside of time completely. God knew all of us before we were ever formed in the womb. He knew all of us from before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4]. God knows everything before it happens.
 
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HannahT

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I find it lazy personally that people decide since my crowd - whatever that is to each one of us - votes this way I will too.

People need to pay attention to the issues, and not so much the noise. Goodness knows there is always noise, and to much of it. I have voted for people in all parties on issues. None of them are perfect, all of them are narcissistic and power hungry IMO. I don't care what side they hail from.
 
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“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]

It says that.
So what? It also allows chemical abortions by a priest if the husband suspects his wife of cheating. Do you not understand that that only says that God knew a person before he was born. He is claiming to know what was going to happen. You are putting your own spin on that verse is all. It is also a specific case rather than a general case. It fails on more than one level.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Actually we are told by the Democrat Christians that voting for Democrats is the Christan thing to do. You can red it ALL over these forums. Those that vote Republican are scolded and castigated.
There is plenty of scolding and castigating on both sides.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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Actually we are told by the Democrat Christians that voting for Democrats is the Christan thing to do. You can red it ALL over these forums. Those that vote Republican are scolded and castigated.
Probably true. But understand that I am opposed to using one's voting choice as a test of faith, whether one votes Republican or Democratic. Having said that, I note that with nearly 80% of self-identified Evangelicals having cast their vote for Donald Trump in 2016, and with all those high-profile Evangelical leaders (pastors, university heads, and so on) as much as saying that a real Christian cannot vote for Democrats (because, you know, Democrats are all godless, baby-killing communists), I desire only to point out that I don't think it is necessarily unChristian to vote Democratic. But neither will I call it unChristian to vote Republican (as many liberals do). All I am doing is giving my reasons, in the hope that other Christians will think about them. Naturally, I do believe strongly in what I have said, but if Matthew the tax collector could follow Jesus right alongside Simon the Zealot, I see no reason why a convinced American Republican should not be able to walk with Jesus alongside a Democrat even if they continue to disagree about politics. In fact, one of the reasons I chose to join the church I now attend is that when I asked the pastor if my voting Democratic would be a problem, he assured me that there were people on both sides of that aisle in his church, and it wouldn't be an issue. And it hasn't been. He does not preach politics on Sunday mornings. He preaches Jesus.
 
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Speedwell

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What are the "hot button" issues for conservative Christians?

1. No abortion under any circumstances.
2. No "out" LGBTs
3. No gun control
4. No amnesty for Central American refugees.

1. As to abortion, I believe it is wrong, but that is a religious opinion. It would be difficult to fairly legislate a total ban and imposing a religious doctrine on all of the citizens of a secular republic is a questionable proposition. Consequently, I think it is possible to oppose abortion and yet vote for pro-choice Democratic candidates based on their other policies.
3. A similar argument can be made for supporting Democrats who advocate for civil rights and reasonable tolerance for LGBTs

I have never understood why 3 & 4 are Christian issues at all.
 
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NxNW

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“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]

It says that.

Conception takes place in the fallopian tube, not the belly or womb. The Bible seems to be claiming that life begins after conception.
 
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Albion

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Well, I'm an independent, and I will be voting for Biden in the upcoming election.
However, I don't agree with what you said about abortion at all.
There's something incongruous about what's been said so far in that post. At least it appears that way.
 
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SkyWriting

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Conception takes place in the fallopian tube, not the belly or womb. The Bible seems to be claiming that life begins after conception.
I guess not.

Before I formed thee in the belly
I knew
thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]
 
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Subduction Zone

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Sure. You'd like to learn more:

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Job 42:2
“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Isaiah 40:28
Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Ephesians 3:20
Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us,

Jeremiah 32:17
‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Genesis 18:14
Is anything too hard for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, about this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son.”

Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Genesis 1:3
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Romans 4:17
As it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Jeremiah 32:27
“Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.

Jeremiah 23:24
Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Psalm 139:7
Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Colossians 1:17
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Ephesians 1:19
And what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might

Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Matthew 10:30
But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.

Matthew 17:20
He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Mark 9:23
And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

What Does the Bible Say About Alpha Omega?
No support for your claims there.

Try again.
 
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renniks

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In discussing American politics on a forum like this, the most fun seems to come from arguing about specific things that happen, and specific statements or actions by political figures. But I like to stay focused on the big picture, which is How am I going to vote in the next election? Should I, as a Christian, support anybody who’s out there? If so, whom should I support?

My own answer I that I support Democratic candidates now. But how can that be? Since about 1980 the working assumption has been that Bible-believing Christians should of course vote for Republicans or conservative Democrats, primarily because of the abortion issue, but then also because of everything related to a preference for limited government. I was taught this mindset when I was a young Christian, I agreed with it, and I voted Republican in every election until 2012.

Why did I change to Democrat since 2016?

Well, first, understand that it wasn't just because of one person. Even before 2016 I considered myself, like George Bush called himself, a compassionate conservative. By that I mean that, because of how I understood my Christian faith, caring about the good of other people was important to me. From that conviction I supported Republican policies because I believed, with Ronald Reagan, that a rising tide floats all boats. I believed that a stronger general economy did more to help people than did social programs in a weak economy. I also believed that America really had reached the point where everybody did have equal opportunity. I had no problem with unequal outcomes, because outcomes were the responsibility of the individual. I believed that individuals who did not do their own part to take advantage of their opportunities did not really deserve to be bailed out.

Then, watching the early campaign action in 2015, I began thinking hard about those things I believed, and a number of things fell into place at the same time. It was the healthcare debate that influenced me the most. As I watched Republicans make illogical argument about why the poor were not entitled to health care if they couldn’t afford it, and as I heard more and more Republicans arguing for things like the abolition of the minimum wage, and saw them use “ivory tower” arguments that sounded reasonable but did not actually reflect the real world, I slowly came to realize that a good chunk of what I believed was wrong. Like most people, I hate admitting that I am wrong, especially out loud to other people. But this time I had to.

Why?

Stated as briefly as possible, without the entire detailed rationale that led me to each one, here are the basic reasons (which are, of course, my own beliefs based on my understanding of what the Bible says. You may disagree, and you are free to do so. But here are my thoughts for your consideration):

First, I used the Bible to find out what conclusions I should come to. Jesus Christ is Lord of everything in my life, seven days a week, not just churchy things on Sunday. That includes my political choices.

Then—

1) The extreme anti-abortion argument is not supported by the Bible or by ordinary reasoning. In the first place, nobody actually treats abortion and infant murder as exactly equal; if they did, the doctor would be tried and convicted of first-degree murder, and the woman would be tried and convicted of murder-for-hire. And almost nobody is willing to go that far. Not even the state of Alabama, which recently passed the strictest anti-abortion law so far. Even that Alabama law expressly says that the woman is not guilty of a crime; only the doctor is. In the second place, the Bible does not support the idea. The “proof texts” most often cited are not speaking about when life begins, they are speaking about God’s foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is the only possible interpretation of “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.” [Jeremiah 1:5]. This does not mean “before Jeremiah was born,” it clearly says “before Jeremiah was formed.” God knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah even began to exist. Foreknowledge.

Also, much of the Christian discussion of when life begins seems to ignore one very critical component of life: life requires both a body and a soul. A beating heart is not proof of life; a soul is required. Catholic thinkers, at least, have always placed this issue out front, but Evangelicals often seem to be saying that a functioning body, or even a fertilized cell, is all that is required for a living person. Technically, this is actually a heresy.

Therefore, I will summarize and say that the Bible gives good support for the common Christian belief that “life” (the presence of a soul within a baby), begins when the baby draws its first breath outside the womb. Regardless, the question itself properly belongs under the heading of freedom of conscience because there simply is no clear Bible passage that answers the question. Therefore, a person [read: political candidate] who says, “I am personally against abortion but I believe a mother must be allowed to follow her conscience, not mine,” is voicing a completely Bible-supported point of view.

I guess I said more about that than I intended to, because it tends to be a make-or-break, non-negotiable issue for some. So I said why it isn’t make-or-break for me. Now let’s move on to the next point.

2) No nation can establish God’s righteousness by law. Yeah, that’s what I see when Christians quote II Chronicles 7:14 as a reason to vote Republican. Electing the right lawmakers so they can write proper laws and appoint good judges cannot make America a righteous nation. Righteousness only comes by individual faith, not by law. The New Testament is absolutely crystal clear on this point. Oh, laws do have their legitimate uses, but bringing about righteousness is not one of them. II Chronicles 7:14 is addressed to God’s people, not to unbelievers, and is a call to heart repentance, not to voting Republican.

3) The Bible does not demand “limited government.” It does not demand any particular form of government at all. It does not even give express approval to a constitutional republic. Yet here we are, with the Christian voters in the country using our best human judgment to discern what the Bible allows.

4) One thing I especially object to is the implied assumption there are only two economic choices: free enterprise or communism. This is absurd. “Regulation” is not even remotely the same thing as “communism.” Calling Democrats “communists” is just as wrong as calling Republicans “Nazis.” As a Christian, I believe in civil discourse, not name-calling and strident propaganda. And I have adopted, as my fundamental social position, the idea of “the greatest good for the largest number.” That does not mean favoring the poor over the rich, but it does mean following the teachings in the Book of James about not favoring the rich over the poor. I believe that current Republican policies do exactly that. It turns out that a “rising tide” does not lift all boats. In fact, the whole shift away from “demand-side” economics toward “supply-side” economics turned out to be a shift away from looking out for the overall welfare of society, and toward focusing on the good of the “suppliers” (business owners and investors). Republicans have been quite open about wanting to scale back, or even eliminate, social safety net programs, and I believe that their justifications for that are contrary to what the Bible teaches. I see the Evangelical opposition to social welfare programs as being equivalent to believing that individuals should do what the Good Samaritan did, but government should do as those did who just walked on past the injured man. I also believe that what social programs are doing is not so much practicing redistribution of wealth as they are combating the effects of the ungodly concentration of wealth in the first place.

5) As a general catch-all, when I see people point out some apparent bad parts of Democratic policy, I often agree completely. I do not think for a moment that Democratic policies (let alone individual Democratic politicians) are uniformly saintly. Neither party can be called a Christian party. I merely believe, on balance, that the Democratic party is the lesser evil, with policies that are generally better for the whole of society than Republican policies are.

And I believe that because of what the Bible says.
You lost me as soon as you starting justifying abortion. Your argument is like saying "We don't call it murder, therefore it isn't."
And that's why I can never vote for a "pro-choice" individual. Because of the justification for killing the innocent, as if we can't see through their nonsense arguments.
 
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SkyWriting

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It does not even give express approval to a constitutional republic.

And others.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.
 
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Subduction Zone

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You lost me as soon as you starting justifying abortion. Your argument is like saying "We don't call it murder, therefore it isn't."
And that's why I can never vote for a "pro-choice" individual. Because of the justification for killing the innocent, as if we can't see through their nonsense arguments.

The problem is that not even the Bible can be used to oppose abortion. There are stronger verses that indicate it is not "killing the innocent" than verses that support your beliefs. It is possible to have a rational opposition to abortion, but the Bible itself is a rather poor source.
 
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renniks

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The problem is that not even the Bible can be used to oppose abortion. There are stronger verses that indicate it is not "killing the innocent" than verses that support your beliefs. It is possible to have a rational opposition to abortion, but the Bible itself is a rather poor source.
I disagree, but then, Jesus is my source, not the Bible.
 
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